Financial Fair Play

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: FFplay

by From Despair To Where? » 04 May 2019 08:09

Could we sell Liam Moore to Beijing Renhe for £60m then loan him back for 2 years?

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Re: FFplay

by Zip » 04 May 2019 09:18

Hound yes, been chatted about at length elsewhere.

Still I get the point that the accounts from this year are going to be very interesting. We did sell Bacuna and Ilori for £6m-ish, so that will help

It certainly points to us maybe needing to sell Swift/Barrow/Moore if we can't shift out enough of the deadwood. I like Swift but do think he is the most replaceable of those. I'd be surprised if we make more than 1 or 2 perm signings, one of which may well be Nelson.

And then if we do stay up and make a profit as suggested, we should actually be in a decent position to invest (sensibly) the season after, as we could presumably lose another 20m that season, and the season after if we so wanted to :)


Happy to see Swift sold to bring in some funds and at least we got good money for Bacuna and Ilori. I would be concerned if we sold Moore especially as I doubt Miazga will be coming back. McShane and O’Shea won’t be playing for us again so we would have no senior centre backs at the club. I think we have to do our very best to keep him.

I also like Barrow. He is hit and miss but outside of the Clement era he has been very productive.
Maybe sell Gunts and GMac. Both are good guys to have around and good servants to this club but our finances are now so tight that anyone senior not likely to be first choice needs to be considered for sale.

I really hope we can sell Aluko rather than just continue the loan. Ditto Mannone.
Jaakkola and Popa will go. Van Den Berg too. Sell Kelly to a League One team.
So if we keep Moore and Barrow but release/sell the others mentioned in this thread that’s ten off the books.

There will be others that go too so I suspect we could end up with 13/14 leaving or at the very least loaned out. Hopefully we can bring in 5 or 6 with maybe a couple of those as permanent signings with the others on loan. Our squad will then be of a more reasonable size.

It’s been shocking mismanagement over the past couple of years and Gomes will do well to keep us up again next season. If he does then we will be in a much better place to move forward a year on from now.

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Re: FFplay

by URZZZZ » 04 May 2019 10:03

Zip
Hound yes, been chatted about at length elsewhere.

Still I get the point that the accounts from this year are going to be very interesting. We did sell Bacuna and Ilori for £6m-ish, so that will help

It certainly points to us maybe needing to sell Swift/Barrow/Moore if we can't shift out enough of the deadwood. I like Swift but do think he is the most replaceable of those. I'd be surprised if we make more than 1 or 2 perm signings, one of which may well be Nelson.

And then if we do stay up and make a profit as suggested, we should actually be in a decent position to invest (sensibly) the season after, as we could presumably lose another 20m that season, and the season after if we so wanted to :)


Happy to see Swift sold to bring in some funds and at least we got good money for Bacuna and Ilori. I would be concerned if we sold Moore especially as I doubt Miazga will be coming back. McShane and O’Shea won’t be playing for us again so we would have no senior centre backs at the club. I think we have to do our very best to keep him.

I also like Barrow. He is hit and miss but outside of the Clement era he has been very productive.
Maybe sell Gunts and GMac. Both are good guys to have around and good servants to this club but our finances are now so tight that anyone senior not likely to be first choice needs to be considered for sale.

I really hope we can sell Aluko rather than just continue the loan. Ditto Mannone.
Jaakkola and Popa will go. Van Den Berg too. Sell Kelly to a League One team.
So if we keep Moore and Barrow but release/sell the others mentioned in this thread that’s ten off the books.

There will be others that go too so I suspect we could end up with 13/14 leaving or at the very least loaned out. Hopefully we can bring in 5 or 6 with maybe a couple of those as permanent signings with the others on loan. Our squad will then be of a more reasonable size.

It’s been shocking mismanagement over the past couple of years and Gomes will do well to keep us up again next season. If he does then we will be in a much better place to move forward a year on from now.


Think Mannone is on a 18 month loan so won’t be sold permanently until next summer. Could be wrong though. Ditto Aluko

Kelly won’t drop to a league one team, his ego is too big, we’d have to go to another champ team or abroad

I do think we have to sell one of our assets, and that should be swift or barrow, and we’ve done ok without swift recently

If obita is ready this summer, I’d be tempted to move one of the LBs on, i think we should keep Richards in next year, so possibly try and sell on obita or Blackett?

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Re: FFplay

by Nameless » 04 May 2019 10:08

URZZZZ
Zip
Hound yes, been chatted about at length elsewhere.

Still I get the point that the accounts from this year are going to be very interesting. We did sell Bacuna and Ilori for £6m-ish, so that will help

It certainly points to us maybe needing to sell Swift/Barrow/Moore if we can't shift out enough of the deadwood. I like Swift but do think he is the most replaceable of those. I'd be surprised if we make more than 1 or 2 perm signings, one of which may well be Nelson.

And then if we do stay up and make a profit as suggested, we should actually be in a decent position to invest (sensibly) the season after, as we could presumably lose another 20m that season, and the season after if we so wanted to :)


Happy to see Swift sold to bring in some funds and at least we got good money for Bacuna and Ilori. I would be concerned if we sold Moore especially as I doubt Miazga will be coming back. McShane and O’Shea won’t be playing for us again so we would have no senior centre backs at the club. I think we have to do our very best to keep him.

I also like Barrow. He is hit and miss but outside of the Clement era he has been very productive.
Maybe sell Gunts and GMac. Both are good guys to have around and good servants to this club but our finances are now so tight that anyone senior not likely to be first choice needs to be considered for sale.

I really hope we can sell Aluko rather than just continue the loan. Ditto Mannone.
Jaakkola and Popa will go. Van Den Berg too. Sell Kelly to a League One team.
So if we keep Moore and Barrow but release/sell the others mentioned in this thread that’s ten off the books.

There will be others that go too so I suspect we could end up with 13/14 leaving or at the very least loaned out. Hopefully we can bring in 5 or 6 with maybe a couple of those as permanent signings with the others on loan. Our squad will then be of a more reasonable size.

It’s been shocking mismanagement over the past couple of years and Gomes will do well to keep us up again next season. If he does then we will be in a much better place to move forward a year on from now.


Think Mannone is on a 18 month loan so won’t be sold permanently until next summer. Could be wrong though. Ditto Aluko

Kelly won’t drop to a league one team, his ego is too big, we’d have to go to another champ team or abroad

I do think we have to sell one of our assets, and that should be swift or barrow, and we’ve done ok without swift recently

If obita is ready this summer, I’d be tempted to move one of the LBs on, i think we should keep Richards in next year, so possibly try and sell on obita or Blackett?


Both Mannone and Aluko were reported as being loaned until the end of the year (2019). Loaning them for 18 months would mean clubs taking them for their close season but not the following season which would be odd.
Selling Obita after 2 years out would be impossible, no one would risk paying anything for him with no proof of fitness.
If Kelly is not part of the plans he won't have the option of refusing to move to L1, whether the assumption of him having an ego is true or just wild guess work. We've shown we will move people out if they aren't needed, he'll not be any different. An ego won't allow him to sit around doing nothing. Perhaps a loan to allow him to play his way back into the plans would be more likely.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by PieEater » 04 May 2019 10:29

I don't get the late payment thing, I usual get paid during the last full week before the end of the month which could be anywhere between the 24th and 30th depending on how the days land. eg if the first is a Wednesday I could get paid on the Monday, if it's a Tuesday it's more likely the previous Thursday. As a result I set up outgoing payments a couple of days into the next month.


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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Nameless » 04 May 2019 11:11

muirinho
Brain Traysers Probably a bit too tinfoil hat, but I wonder if the increasingly tight capital controls by the Chinese authorities (essentially making it more and more difficult to get money out of China) will have an impact on the number of of Chinese owned football clubs (2 in PL, 4 in championship). Aside from the controls, last year Beijing described the wave on investment into European football as "Irrational", hinting at increased stringency (slightly old news). I certainly wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of these issues in the future - both "one-off" payment glitches, and Chinese owners selling up.

If that does cause problems in the future it's somewhat ironic given a lot of the investments were made before the capital controls ramped up so Chinese billionaires could diversify wealth in foreign assets (see also housing markets in pretty much every major city).


You could be right about Chinese owners selling up - but I don't think this particular glitch had anything to do with capital controls or anything like that. IMO, this was cock-up not conspiracy. For instance, loads of peoples salaries delayed in Ireland, because European banks were shut yesterday.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eur ... 21539.html

What wouldn't surprise me though, is the Dais investing money in the REP thing - they're probably going to want to trickle money overseas gradually, and if they are being prevented from putting it directly into the club because of FFP, they are going to look elsewhere.

Judging by the amount invested in Bearwood, there's no shortage of cash. Logistics and politics though, are other issues.


Fairly sure RFC have a minority share of the REP development, although whether it ever happens who knows !

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Nameless » 04 May 2019 11:12

PieEater I don't get the late payment thing, I usual get paid during the last full week before the end of the month which could be anywhere between the 24th and 30th depending on how the days land. eg if the first is a Wednesday I could get paid on the Monday, if it's a Tuesday it's more likely the previous Thursday. As a result I set up outgoing payments a couple of days into the next month.


Maybe not everyone is paid the same way you are ?
I get paid on the same day of every month, unless that is a weekend in which case I get paid one or two days earlier.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Victor Meldrew » 04 May 2019 11:15

This may well have been a non-story with unpaid wages (Bolton, Bury etc.) being the latest trend in reporting football club matters.
How did the National Press get hold of the story?
Presumably a player or other member of staff was a bit miffed so leaked the info or was it our Defence Secretary who seems guilty of almost anything that happens?

Hopefully it was just a glitch but, as others have posted, payroll is normally automatic so there is just a small element of concern.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Nameless » 04 May 2019 11:46

Victor Meldrew This may well have been a non-story with unpaid wages (Bolton, Bury etc.) being the latest trend in reporting football club matters.
How did the National Press get hold of the story?
Presumably a player or other member of staff was a bit miffed so leaked the info or was it our Defence Secretary who seems guilty of almost anything that happens?

Hopefully it was just a glitch but, as others have posted, payroll is normally automatic so there is just a small element of concern.


Player notices he's a few grand short, mentions it in passing to his agent, agent is mates with a reporter so mentions it so the reporter owes him a favour. Can't imagine Tyler Blackett or Mo Barrow's first move is to give the Daily Mail a call !!


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Re: FFplay

by Denver Royal » 04 May 2019 12:02

Zip It’s been shocking mismanagement over the past couple of years and Gomes will do well to keep us up again next season. If he does then we will be in a much better place to move forward a year on from now.

Yep, but if it's a struggle to keep us up next season, or even just finishing in bottom half, realism may take a back seat and reckon he'll still catch some grief for it regardless of how little can be done over this Summer, and the metrics with Clement may continue.

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Re: FFplay

by From Despair To Where? » 04 May 2019 15:38

Mannone's contract is up next summer and I believe Minnesota have an option to buy.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Victor Meldrew » 04 May 2019 20:40

Nameless
Victor Meldrew This may well have been a non-story with unpaid wages (Bolton, Bury etc.) being the latest trend in reporting football club matters.
How did the National Press get hold of the story?
Presumably a player or other member of staff was a bit miffed so leaked the info or was it our Defence Secretary who seems guilty of almost anything that happens?

Hopefully it was just a glitch but, as others have posted, payroll is normally automatic so there is just a small element of concern.


Player notices he's a few grand short, mentions it in passing to his agent, agent is mates with a reporter so mentions it so the reporter owes him a favour. Can't imagine Tyler Blackett or Mo Barrow's first move is to give the Daily Mail a call !!


Yes, that is probably how it came about but it still happened that they were not paid on time-in some cases that has been the first sign of real problems but let us hope that this was just a glitch and let us not be too arrogant to assume that the sort of problems suffered by other clubs couldn't happen to us.

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Re: FFplay

by maffff » 05 May 2019 22:15

From Despair To Where? Mannone's contract is up next summer and I believe Minnesota have an option to buy.
loan expires January - they have option to buy he or leaves on a free in the summer.


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Re: Financial Fair Play

by sandman » 06 May 2019 19:02

FFP is, was and always will be designed to keep the rich clubs at the top and the small clubs at the bottom.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and the traditionally bigger clubs only let FFP through because it benefits them.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Snowflake Royal » 06 May 2019 19:09

It's not hurt Huddersfield or Burnley. Or stopped Bournemouth buying their way up.

Or got Leeds up (yet). Or saved Sunderland from double relegation.

And hasn't it involved Man City and Chelsea both get penalised? Or was that other rules / me paying no attention to the PL

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Victor Meldrew » 06 May 2019 19:26

Snowflake Royal It's not hurt Huddersfield or Burnley. Or stopped Bournemouth buying their way up.

Or got Leeds up (yet). Or saved Sunderland from double relegation.

And hasn't it involved Man City and Chelsea both get penalised? Or was that other rules / me paying no attention to the PL


Bournemouth were fined IIRC somewhere between £8-10 million AFTER they were promoted and had the mega money of the Premier League to look forward to.
Now , with big bucks still coming in, they can pay £25 million for a player on gates of around 11,000 and, until this season anyway, not having to sell anybody they wish to keep.
Once in the Prem club , especially now with generous parachute payments, financial life is rosy.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by CountryRoyal » 06 May 2019 20:37

Snowflake Royal It's not hurt Huddersfield or Burnley. Or stopped Bournemouth buying their way up.

Or got Leeds up (yet). Or saved Sunderland from double relegation.

And hasn't it involved Man City and Chelsea both get penalised? Or was that other rules / me paying no attention to the PL


Let’s not forget that both Man City and to a certain extent Chelsea are what the traditional well established big clubs wanted to stop, which to a certain extent they have. You just can’t have another Man City these days.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Denver Royal » 06 May 2019 23:49

How did Wolves do it? They made some signings early doors, after which everyone was playing for 2nd place. Heard FFP rumours, but then it went quiet. Haven’t even really changed their team all that much in PL, and not only stayed up, but likely in Europe.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Snowflake Royal » 07 May 2019 00:08

Denver Royal How did Wolves do it? They made some signings early doors, after which everyone was playing for 2nd place. Heard FFP rumours, but then it went quiet. Haven’t even really changed their team all that much in PL, and not only stayed up, but likely in Europe.

Had a Wolves fan explain to me at tedious length how they only spent money they had because of their massive gates and the ownership structure.

He was probably at least half right.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Denver Royal » 07 May 2019 01:11

Snowflake Royal
Denver Royal How did Wolves do it? They made some signings early doors, after which everyone was playing for 2nd place. Heard FFP rumours, but then it went quiet. Haven’t even really changed their team all that much in PL, and not only stayed up, but likely in Europe.

Had a Wolves fan explain to me at tedious length how they only spent money they had because of their massive gates and the ownership structure.

He was probably at least half right.

Yep, seemed too good to be true. Looked easy, and they caught flack accordingly.
In retrospect, if not a blueprint, must have got a lot of things right. On the park, on the sidelines, and off it, boardroom, tea lady, etc. Which is what promotion, and then subsequent survival and sustainability is, I guess. Top to bottom, ducks in line, etc.

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