For every yob we get rid of, we gain a family of four

firstdivision
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by firstdivision » 16 Jul 2006 22:32

Hi TR,

I think most reasonable people will be able to work out what is reasonable behaviour. There will always be a couple of miserable so and so's who will take exception if you cheered loudly when a goal was scored but that is the exception, and they are not reasonable.

Take the pub example I used, if someone starts swearing fluently in front of your girlfriend/wife/child under 10 then that is unreasonable, if someone insists on standing in front of you and giving everyone else around them verbal, for daring to want to see the game, rather than look at their back then again that is unreasonable.

Plenty more examples but I am sure you know the score?

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by Tilehurst Road » 17 Jul 2006 00:43

firstdivision Hi TR,

I think most reasonable people will be able to work out what is reasonable behaviour. There will always be a couple of miserable so and so's who will take exception if you cheered loudly when a goal was scored but that is the exception, and they are not reasonable.

Take the pub example I used, if someone starts swearing fluently in front of your girlfriend/wife/child under 10 then that is unreasonable, if someone insists on standing in front of you and giving everyone else around them verbal, for daring to want to see the game, rather than look at their back then again that is unreasonable.

Plenty more examples but I am sure you know the score?
I know the score, for sure. But there are definately grey areas 'out there'.

i.e. the bit of your post I've highlighted, to those 'miserable so and so's', their behaviour is reasonable, to most it's not. So if the individual themselves can't determine what is and isn't reasonable then how can the stewards? Yes, they can be giving guidelines by RFC management but there are some areas where it will come down to perception and I believe a fair few people will be harshly pushed out of this football club as a result of this. They may not be yobs, just beered up fans who're behaviouring what they'd determine to be reasonably and just supporting the team.

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by firstdivision » 17 Jul 2006 20:06

I agree TR, different people have different ideas of what is reasonable behaviour, but I still like my pub analogy as it fits pretty well. :D

As ever we are at the mercy of the stewards as to what they believe is reasonable behaviour, and whilst most of them will get it right some may not. That having been said if I was a steward, asked someone to sit down and got a load of verbal from them, then I might become unreasonable.

As ever the way you treat people tends to be reflected back in the way you are treated.

I guess it is basic manners really....

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by Farnborough Royal » 17 Jul 2006 20:16

sharp_shooter Reading is a family club with a wimpish rep...shame really


True.

I say we have a fight with Man U 8) :wink:

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by Tilehurst Road » 17 Jul 2006 20:40

firstdivision I agree TR, different people have different ideas of what is reasonable behaviour, but I still like my pub analogy as it fits pretty well. :D

As ever we are at the mercy of the stewards as to what they believe is reasonable behaviour, and whilst most of them will get it right some may not. That having been said if I was a steward, asked someone to sit down and got a load of verbal from them, then I might become unreasonable.

As ever the way you treat people tends to be reflected back in the way you are treated.

I guess it is basic manners really....
And for some, basic manners would be to sit there with no one chanting around them. :wink:

As for being at the mercy of stewards, well; after the Norwich game when I saw a steward throw a paper aeroplane on the pitch then try and get someone kicked out for the same thing- I don't think I'll ever trust them.


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by wehateoxford » 18 Jul 2006 11:28

i've had people look at me funny just for singing with a bit of heart, i've heard people complain that im singing RFC chants.... thats just not right, its the character of football and if you dont like it then go to madjeski on a sunday, perfectly good rugby team with the atmosphere your looking for.

i think a difference that should be mentioned here is, when i watch the irish i can drink as many pints i want at my own luxury... when i watch reading i have to down pints to get back in to the action... where do you think i'll be more pissed?

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by Jerry St Clair » 18 Jul 2006 11:51

I agree with the club's principle on this, but I worry about the realities of how they enforce this.

I suspect Boyd would love all young men to be turfed out and the Mad be full of middle-aged, middle-class families. Young men spend less and probably make too much noise.

We should remember that a football match is not an opera and should not be completely sanitised. I agree with the comment above that most reasonable people know where to draw the line, but also some people need to have realistic expectations - if you don't want your 10 year old exposed to foul language you should probably be taking them somewhere other than a football match.

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by SpaceCruiser » 18 Jul 2006 11:55

Jerry St Clair Young men....probably make too much noise.


Isn't that the point of generating an atmosphere?

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by Jerry St Clair » 18 Jul 2006 12:48

SpaceCruiser
Jerry St Clair Young men....probably make too much noise.


Isn't that the point of generating an atmosphere?


Er....yes.


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by Andy M » 18 Jul 2006 13:07

Interesting thread...

Once upon a time clubs had family areas where those with younger children could go in the (broadly speaking) safe knowledge that delicate little ears wouldn't be corrupted by those around them.

It would appear that clubs are now intent on turing entire grounds into family areas with your club well and truly leading the way. I know somebody that attended a concert at your place a couple of weeks ago and said that even under those circumstances your ground was sterile and the stewards intent on making sure everybody sat nicely and behaved themselves - well, as far as they could!

As others have said one mans yob is anothers passionate supporter, although have been slightly more articulate when making their point!!

Still, when the authorities have succeeded in driving away the "yobs" and the newer supporter has lost interest in their new found Saturday afternoon, home games only hobby then perhaps these PC zealots will realise their mistake...

I wish the Royals well next season!

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:15

Andy M Still, when the authorities have succeeded in driving away the "yobs" and the newer supporter has lost interest in their new found Saturday afternoon, home games only hobby then perhaps these PC zealots will realise their mistake...

What an absolute load of tosh (and that applies to most of what you write).

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by Winchester Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:24

Define 'Yob'.

Is it somebody who goes to football and looks to fight with the opposition?
Is it somebody who gets drunk at the football and swears?
Is it somebody who gets drunk at the football and makes noise?
Is it somebody who makes noise at the football?
Is it somebody who is provocative towards opposing fans?
Is it somebody who gets drunk at the football?
Is it any teenager who goes to the football with a group of mates?
Is it all of the above?

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by Andy M » 18 Jul 2006 13:33

Really? What has made you arrive at that conclusion then? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my views "tosh".

Before you answer, may I just clarify that I am totally pro the more passionate supporter, their right to sing chants that others may find offensive although you can take racist chants out of that equation, I'm totally pro supporters who wish to stand being able to do so, I'm totally pro abusing the referee and opposition players and supporters although again not in a racist way, I'm totally pro being able to gesture at away fans or players...

I'm anti violence, I'm anti the idiots who chuck coins or other objects on the pitch, I'm anti supporters not showing respect to those around them and taking things too far and not toning it down when being asked to by others, I'm anti idiots turning up so drunk they can't even stand up... and I'm especially anti the Government using football as a cure ill for all society's ills and their quest in "making the game accessible to all" at the expense of fans who've dedicated their lifes to supporting their clubs.

To me a football stadium is theatre and for 90 minutes each week, I rant, rave, scream, shout, celebrate goals, curse missed opportunities, swear, give stick (and receive it as an away fan) and behave in a way I wouldn't dream of behaving outside the ground.

Why? Because that to me is what being a football fan is all about... it isn't about sitting there in silence, jumping around to orchestrated, naff and tannoyed music, politely applauding goals, clapping some patronised group of school kids who've been wheeled onto the pitch at half time to sing us a song and celebrate diverstiy and not treating the game as one, big politically correct festival.


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by Silver Fox » 18 Jul 2006 13:40

If you're so against political correctness why not go the whole hog and enjoy racist songs aswell as the ones that offend people on other levels?

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by Winchester Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:44

I don't agree with football being used as a vehicle for political correctness, and as something that appears to want to symbolise modern 2.4 family life.
I think it should be allowed to be what it is.
As long as people aren't breaking any laws (inc Discrimination ones) then whats the harm in getting passionate about your team, and having a bit of banter with the away fans?

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:45

Andy M Really? What has made you arrive at that conclusion then? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my views "tosh".

Before you answer, may I just clarify that I am totally pro the more passionate supporter, their right to sing chants that others may find offensive although you can take racist chants out of that equation, I'm totally pro supporters who wish to stand being able to do so, I'm totally pro abusing the referee and opposition players and supporters although again not in a racist way, I'm totally pro being able to gesture at away fans or players...

I'm anti violence, I'm anti the idiots who chuck coins or other objects on the pitch, I'm anti supporters not showing respect to those around them and taking things too far and not toning it down when being asked to by others, I'm anti idiots turning up so drunk they can't even stand up... and I'm especially anti the Government using football as a cure ill for all society's ills and their quest in "making the game accessible to all" at the expense of fans who've dedicated their lifes to supporting their clubs.

To me a football stadium is theatre and for 90 minutes each week, I rant, rave, scream, shout, celebrate goals, curse missed opportunities, swear, give stick (and receive it as an away fan) and behave in a way I wouldn't dream of behaving outside the ground.

Why? Because that to me is what being a football fan is all about... it isn't about sitting there in silence, jumping around to orchestrated, naff and tannoyed music, politely applauding goals, clapping some patronised group of school kids who've been wheeled onto the pitch at half time to sing us a song and celebrate diverstiy and not treating the game as one, big politically correct festival.

You've never written that before have you? Ever thought of going in to politics? Labour could do with someone like you at the moment.

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by wehateoxford » 18 Jul 2006 13:45

because clearly theres a difference between political correctness and racism....

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:49

Winchester Royal I don't agree with football being used as a vehicle for political correctness, and as something that appears to want to symbolise modern 2.4 family life.
I think it should be allowed to be what it is.
As long as people aren't breaking any laws (inc Discrimination ones) then whats the harm in getting passionate about your team, and having a bit of banter with the away fans?

I have no issue with most of what goes on at football matches, and kids will generally hear worse stuff in the playground.

What I do hate is the selfish attitude of the minority who want to stand and don't care if they block someone elses view.

Football clubs have are tailoring their stadiums and the "experience" it provides to the biggest market, and unfortunately for some that isn't single young men. Families spend more money and get more bums on seats, you only need to see the attendance increases despite huge price hikes to see that.

If in the furure it changes, then clubs will change with it. It is the same in any business. If you don't align yourself with your market you will struggle to get customers.

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by TFF » 18 Jul 2006 13:50

wehateoxford because clearly theres a difference between political correctness and racism....


You mean being racist is no longer politically acceptable?

:shock:

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by Winchester Royal » 18 Jul 2006 14:06

Wycombe Royal
Winchester Royal I don't agree with football being used as a vehicle for political correctness, and as something that appears to want to symbolise modern 2.4 family life.
I think it should be allowed to be what it is.
As long as people aren't breaking any laws (inc Discrimination ones) then whats the harm in getting passionate about your team, and having a bit of banter with the away fans?

I have no issue with most of what goes on at football matches, and kids will generally hear worse stuff in the playground.

What I do hate is the selfish attitude of the minority who want to stand and don't care if they block someone elses view.

Football clubs have are tailoring their stadiums and the "experience" it provides to the biggest market, and unfortunately for some that isn't single young men. Families spend more money and get more bums on seats, you only need to see the attendance increases despite huge price hikes to see that.

If in the furure it changes, then clubs will change with it. It is the same in any business. If you don't align yourself with your market you will struggle to get customers.


I don't agree with people standing in front of kids - the only way to stop people standing is to either ban them all and cause a lot of resentment, or cater for those people by lobbying for standing areas.
Wherever there is conflict, its only going to be solved in a sensible way where both parties are satisfied.
While Standing areas may be a pipe-dream, I think that if they were re-introduced, we wouldn't get such big discussions about yobs and passion because all those yobs would be in together and wouldn't be upsetting others by standing in front of them.

I don't have a problem with the club catering for families, but I wish they wouldn't treat the single young man with such disdain - instead of trying to remove them by banning, or by 'encouraging them away' perhaps they could cater for them as well and preserve a bit of the club's older, and almost certainly more passionate fanbase. As long as no laws are being broken, and people are behaving considerately, then whats the harm in that?

Sadly I guess we're looking for a utopian footballing environment that probably isn't going to happen, and we'll just have to put up with the inevitable conflicts that will come.

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