England - the future....

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Re: England - the future....

by Simmops » 09 Sep 2021 07:21

PieEater This German ref looks out of his depth. Massive homer.

Well they are long standing allies with Poland tbf

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 10 Oct 2021 07:29

I know it was only Andorra but....

People used to cream themselves when Stevie Gerard hit a couple of long passes out to the wings (even though there’d be several more that flew over their heads into touch) but Phil Foden must have played at least 10 with pinpoint accuracy last night, many of which were into the penalty area. A decent striker getting on the end of those would have had a field day.

PS Where the hell was Bellingham? Surely he must have been injured?

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 10 Oct 2021 20:23

Royal Rother I know it was only Andorra but....

People used to cream themselves when Stevie Gerard hit a couple of long passes out to the wings (even though there’d be several more that flew over their heads into touch) but Phil Foden must have played at least 10 with pinpoint accuracy last night, many of which were into the penalty area. A decent striker getting on the end of those would have had a field day.

PS Where the hell was Bellingham? Surely he must have been injured?

England scored twice from Foden’s passes, so they did have a field day

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 11 Oct 2021 17:54

I know Pep uses Foden out wide or as a false 9, but I'd love to see him get a deeper role and run matches. Scholes dropped deeper later in his career; I think Foden is capable of the same.

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Re: England - the future....

by 6ft Kerplunk » 12 Oct 2021 10:39

We do need to be building the team around him. Think he's more of a Gazza than Pirlo type of player at the moment though. You'd lose a lot of his game by playing him deeper at this stage of his career. His problem is trying to oust De Bruyne from that role at Man City at the moment.


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Re: England - the future....

by Simmops » 12 Oct 2021 16:38

I would love to see Foden in the 9, with Kane and Abraham upfront

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2021 18:41

6ft Kerplunk We do need to be building the team around him. Think he's more of a Gazza than Pirlo type of player at the moment though. You'd lose a lot of his game by playing him deeper at this stage of his career. His problem is trying to oust De Bruyne from that role at Man City at the moment.

Agreed he should be the linchpin. Mount and Grealish are also great talents who would get into most teams, but Foden is the pick and a generational talent.

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Re: England - the future....

by NathStPaul » 12 Oct 2021 21:10

Jeez this is a struggle.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2021 21:39

WestYorksRoyal
6ft Kerplunk We do need to be building the team around him. Think he's more of a Gazza than Pirlo type of player at the moment though. You'd lose a lot of his game by playing him deeper at this stage of his career. His problem is trying to oust De Bruyne from that role at Man City at the moment.

Agreed he should be the linchpin. Mount and Grealish are also great talents who would get into most teams, but Foden is the pick and a generational talent.
I mean, he's been shit tonight hasn't he?


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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 12 Oct 2021 21:52

Sterling and Kane did bugger all, Mount and Foden not a lot. Grealish was involved in everything threatening we did, kept the ball well.

No surprise who got subbed first.

I get it. Football’s a complicated game and Southgate’s just too smart for me.

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Re: England - the future....

by URZZZZ » 13 Oct 2021 00:03

Royal Rother Sterling and Kane did bugger all, Mount and Foden not a lot. Grealish was involved in everything threatening we did, kept the ball well.

No surprise who got subbed first.

I get it. Football’s a complicated game and Southgate’s just too smart for me.


Sterling’s all round play has been dire for months now at City. Overdoes everything and loses the ball time after time. Chipped in with the goals and assists at the Euros which received fair credit but has really struggled apart from that for a while now

Do understand the regular inclusion though as he’s one of the only ones to stretch the defence and run in behind. Foden, Mount, Grealish all play to feet. Jury is out on Sancho in an England shirt

Disappointing result but in the grand scheme of things means very little and can hopefully utilise the period until the WC to continue experimenting like the XI tonight

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 13 Oct 2021 10:00

Royal Rother Sterling and Kane did bugger all, Mount and Foden not a lot. Grealish was involved in everything threatening we did, kept the ball well.

No surprise who got subbed first.

I get it. Football’s a complicated game and Southgate’s just too smart for me.


Well he is England's second most successful manager ever in terms of tournament results and also on win rate, so we'll take that as a given.

Also unbeaten in 18 games* now, in which we have conceded just five goals.

On Bellingham, he was rested owing to him playing a lot of games already this season for Dortmund, Southgate conscious of player 'burnout'. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't start our first game in Qatar.

Avoid defeat to Albania or San Marino next month, and we'll equal England's longest ever unbeaten run of 20 games, set 130 years ago.

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Re: England - the future....

by 6ft Kerplunk » 13 Oct 2021 10:09

Royal Rother Sterling and Kane did bugger all, Mount and Foden not a lot. Grealish was involved in everything threatening we did, kept the ball well.

No surprise who got subbed first.

I get it. Football’s a complicated game and Southgate’s just too smart for me.


The problem for Grealish, Mount, Sterling and Foden at the moment is that they need Kane to stay up front in the middle to give them a target and players the chance to make runs off him. With Kane constantly dropping deep everyone's space gets crowded and there's nobody to play the ball into. We get away with it when Kane's in form as he'll take the one chance that falls his way. When he's horribly out of form like he is now he negates the others. Still think Grealish needs to pass the ball on quicker than he does, he doesn't need to do everything himself like he did at Villa.


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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 13 Oct 2021 10:33

Sanguine
Royal Rother Sterling and Kane did bugger all, Mount and Foden not a lot. Grealish was involved in everything threatening we did, kept the ball well.

No surprise who got subbed first.

I get it. Football’s a complicated game and Southgate’s just too smart for me.


Well he is England's second most successful manager ever in terms of tournament results and also on win rate, so we'll take that as a given.

Also unbeaten in 18 games* now, in which we have conceded just five goals.

On Bellingham, he was rested owing to him playing a lot of games already this season for Dortmund, Southgate conscious of player 'burnout'. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't start our first game in Qatar.

Avoid defeat to Albania or San Marino next month, and we'll equal England's longest ever unbeaten run of 20 games, set 130 years ago.


:lol: Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 13 Oct 2021 10:36

Royal Rother
:lol: Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.


I didn't say that, I suggested he knows far more about it than you, and that his results speak for themselves (including his failures, where for example our approach probably cost us in the Euros final against Italy).

Ironically in trying to suggest that I or others have a rigid view of Southgate, it is you who is guilty of that.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Oct 2021 10:47

Sanguine
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:lol: Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.


I didn't say that, I suggested he knows far more about it than you, and that his results speak for themselves (including his failures, where for example our approach probably cost us in the Euros final against Italy).

Ironically in trying to suggest that I or others have a rigid view of Southgate, it is you who is guilty of that.


My view is that Southgate has an almost irreversible opinion of both Kane and Sterling (hence being quite surprised when both were substituted last night). He seems to have almost the same, but diametrically opposed, irreversible view of Grealish (I'm not sure I agree that he doesn't move the ball on quickly enough, nor that Sterling is the one to stretch a defence - that is exactly what Grealish does - and did last night, if only Kane wasn't so completely out of form)

I cannot fathom why Sterling is such a favourite when :
a. if he's wide his game is divided into two parts
- passing immediately backwards - or
- running into traffic and losing the ball
b. his finishing doesn't seem to have improved much (see the header saved by the keeper followed by the calm finish into the empty n.... oh)

I have no problem with passing the ball backwards at times, but shirley the first 'look' should be forwards, then sideways, then backwards if neither of those are options. Watching specifically this last night, Foden receives the ball wide and looks forward first, I did not see Sterling looking forward at all.

It's safe to say I wouldn't be starting him at the moment
BTW, Kane looks completely shot. Levy might need to get his cheque book out to buy a replacement

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 13 Oct 2021 11:04

Sterling and Kane have both earned trust and been huge players in the Southgate era, but I'm concerned by both of them; they appear to be stagnating. It will be interesting to see if they are still first choices if club form doesn't improve.

Trouble is, nobody else offers the same pace and tireless running in behind that Sterling does, and it's a big part of how we play. Rashford is probably the best alternative. Similarly with Kane, who is banging on Southgate’s door to take his shirt if his form doesn't improve?

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 13 Oct 2021 11:08

Agree with a lot of that. Kane is/was a terrific player - last night was apparently the first time in 15 WC or Euro qualifying games that he hasn't scored, which is ridiculous. If anyone deserves a place on reputation, and what he might do out of nowhere, it is Kane.

Sterling has been marginalised a little at City, and it is showing in his England performances (the opposite is true of Stones, fwiw, he looks excellent every time he pulls an England shirt on). Sterling is still only 26, but in my view isn't a better player now than in his first season at City, aged 22. I think Southgate sees Sancho and Rashford as his competition, so with the former hopelessly out of form too, and the latter injured, it doesn't surprise me that he has kept his place.

More broadly, that we can field the line-up that we did last night, and have Bellingham, Sancho, Rashford and Calvert-Lewin not involved, is a good sign for our attacking play. Coupled with our miserly defence, and I think we are in a good place.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Oct 2021 11:29

Sanguine Agree with a lot of that. Kane is/was a terrific player - last night was apparently the first time in 15 WC or Euro qualifying games that he hasn't scored, which is ridiculous. If anyone deserves a place on reputation, and what he might do out of nowhere, it is Kane.

Sterling has been marginalised a little at City, and it is showing in his England performances (the opposite is true of Stones, fwiw, he looks excellent every time he pulls an England shirt on). Sterling is still only 26, but in my view isn't a better player now than in his first season at City, aged 22. I think Southgate sees Sancho and Rashford as his competition, so with the former hopelessly out of form too, and the latter injured, it doesn't surprise me that he has kept his place.

More broadly, that we can field the line-up that we did last night, and have Bellingham, Sancho, Rashford and Calvert-Lewin not involved, is a good sign for our attacking play. Coupled with our miserly defence, and I think we are in a good place.

Whilst I agree with all (well, most) of that, and I accept that both Kane and Sterling have scored regularly, it strikes me that they've scored DESPITE their form, not because of it (e.g. Kane scored plenty in the World Cup but that includes a few penalties - still got to score them I know - and one off his heel that he had no idea at all about)

Still don't see Sterling as the one to stretch defences and it may be an optical illusion but Grealish 'seems' to be quicker with the ball at his feet, and we don't really play 'over the top' for Sterling's pace to be effective in that way.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 13 Oct 2021 11:33

As with Southgate and his results, I'm never one to entertain 'in spite of' arguments very much. As above, this was the first time in 15 qualifiers that Kane hasn't scored. Likewise Sterling's dip in form for England is only this autumn, he was excellent for the most part at the Euros.

Owen used to be shite a lot of the time too, but got goals. Kane can keep stinking the place out if he keeps scoring. That's not to say though that I don't agree he isn't at the races at the moment. I'd probably give Abraham (who is, for Roma) a start against Albania, and Calvert-Lewin in San Marino.

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