England - the future....

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Oct 2021 11:38

Sanguine As with Southgate and his results, I'm never one to entertain 'in spite of' arguments very much. As above, this was the first time in 15 qualifiers that Kane hasn't scored. Likewise Sterling's dip in form for England is only this autumn, he was excellent for the most part at the Euros.

Owen used to be shite a lot of the time too, but got goals. Kane can keep stinking the place out if he keeps scoring. That's not to say though that I don't agree he isn't at the races at the moment. I'd probably give Abraham (who is, for Roma) a start against Albania, and Calvert-Lewin in San Marino.

Sadly, it looks like Abraham may not be available through injury and Calvert-Lewin is, likewise, missing through injury at the moment.
Danny Ings ? (obviously not even in the squad at the moment)
Ollie Watkins ?
Is Ivan Toney English ?

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 13 Oct 2021 13:06

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:lol: Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.


I didn't say that, I suggested he knows far more about it than you, and that his results speak for themselves (including his failures, where for example our approach probably cost us in the Euros final against Italy).

Ironically in trying to suggest that I or others have a rigid view of Southgate, it is you who is guilty of that.


I have said so many times on here how highly I rate Southgate, but he has his blind spots IMHO and is not immune from criticism.

It would be silly if we can't feel free to criticise someone because he is better than his predecessors.

And do you really think he knows more about football than me? Have you not read my posts over the last 20 years? :lol:

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Re: England - the future....

by Sutekh » 13 Oct 2021 13:18

Southgate has done well as England boss, my only real criticism of him as that he’s too “safety first” and defensive at times which are possibly the main reasons for failing in the Euro final and also in the WC semi final.

Still if he has learnt from that there should be time for him to get the balance right in the next couple of tournaments.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 18 Oct 2021 16:02

Next game behind closed doors for England, following the crowd trouble before the Euro 2020 final.

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 18 Oct 2021 16:11

Sanguine Next game behind closed doors for England, following the crowd trouble before the Euro 2020 final.


Not surprised. It's fair enough
That event was a shambles of organisation attended by an awful lot of oxf*rd


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Re: England - the future....

by Jinx » 12 Nov 2021 20:17

Why are we playing in blue? With Albania in white it's a bit confusing each time I look up and I have to do a double take :?

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 12 Nov 2021 20:21

No idea but it’s working

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 13 Nov 2021 09:53

I know it's only Albania, but we now seem to have a settled England set up and environment where even if players are not in good nick at club level they can still perform for England. Sterling in the summer is the best example, but the likes of Pickford and Maguire seem to have consistently saved their best form for England, which makes a change from the old days.

With the likes of Kane, Sterling, Maguire, Stones and Shaw all some way short of good form at club level, it is impressive that Southgate can still get decent performances for England. Of course, players need to be on their toes and have competition, but at the same time familiarity and consistency in an international team really helps teams play to their potential.

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Re: England - the future....

by Jinx » 13 Nov 2021 10:11

Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment


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Re: England - the future....

by Donny Ironside » 13 Nov 2021 11:36

Jinx Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment


+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Nov 2021 12:54

Donny Ironside
Jinx Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment


+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday


Should he be isolating ? COVID ?
If not, then his performances for England certainly make him first choice. For Man Utd, not so much.
Same with Sterling (not Man Utd, obviously)

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 13 Nov 2021 13:03

Donny Ironside
Jinx Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment


+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

To an extent I can see your point. But nobody is really testing Southgate at the moment anyway. Look at Kane, Sterling and Maguire. Who has been putting in performances every week to create a strong case to replace them? It's not like there are players putting in the level of performances demanding a chance. Bellingham in Germany, but equally I agree with Southgate not overplaying him and adding extra pressure at his age.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Nov 2021 13:06

WestYorksRoyal
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Jinx Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment


+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

To an extent I can see your point. But nobody is really testing Southgate at the moment anyway. Look at Kane, Sterling and Maguire. Who has been putting in performances every week to create a strong case to replace Them? It's not like there are players putting in the level of performances demanding a chance. Bellingham in Germany, but equally I agree with Southgate not overplaying him and adding extra pressure at his age.

I would argue that Coady has been knocking on the door (specifically for England) but not enough to make a selection difference

I’m not a Sterling fan but I can see why Southgate sticks with him. There’s a world class player there somewhere, just we don’t get to see it


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Re: England - the future....

by Donny Ironside » 13 Nov 2021 13:25

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Jinx Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment


+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday


Should he be isolating ? COVID ?
If not, then his performances for England certainly make him first choice. For Man Utd, not so much.
Same with Sterling (not Man Utd, obviously)

But surely it is club performances that it is based on?

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 13 Nov 2021 14:18

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+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

To an extent I can see your point. But nobody is really testing Southgate at the moment anyway. Look at Kane, Sterling and Maguire. Who has been putting in performances every week to create a strong case to replace Them? It's not like there are players putting in the level of performances demanding a chance. Bellingham in Germany, but equally I agree with Southgate not overplaying him and adding extra pressure at his age.

I would argue that Coady has been knocking on the door (specifically for England) but not enough to make a selection difference

I’m not a Sterling fan but I can see why Southgate sticks with him. There’s a world class player there somewhere, just we don’t get to see it

I don't see any other player who offers the constant running, movement and directness of Sterling. Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho have different styles and strengths. Sterling is very important in how we play and will certainly start in Qatar.

But he does give plenty of ammunition to his critics. It's basically his composure and decision making at key moments that let him down; if he could add that he would be a genuine superstar of the game.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Nov 2021 15:00

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WestYorksRoyal To an extent I can see your point. But nobody is really testing Southgate at the moment anyway. Look at Kane, Sterling and Maguire. Who has been putting in performances every week to create a strong case to replace Them? It's not like there are players putting in the level of performances demanding a chance. Bellingham in Germany, but equally I agree with Southgate not overplaying him and adding extra pressure at his age.

I would argue that Coady has been knocking on the door (specifically for England) but not enough to make a selection difference

I’m not a Sterling fan but I can see why Southgate sticks with him. There’s a world class player there somewhere, just we don’t get to see it

I don't see any other player who offers the constant running, movement and directness of Sterling. Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho have different styles and strengths. Sterling is very important in how we play and will certainly start in Qatar.

But he does give plenty of ammunition to his critics. It's basically his composure and decision making at key moments that let him down; if he could add that he would be a genuine superstar of the game.

I would say that both Foden and Grealish offer just as much running, movement and directness as Sterling. I would say that both also have more end product. Not seen enough of Sancho to pass any comment and I would put all three of Sterling, Foden and Grealish ahead of Rashford. Apparently, Greenwood has asked not to be selected :shock:

Sterling's composure and decision making should be resolved by now. It's not like he's only played a dozen times.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 13 Nov 2021 17:52

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Franchise FC I would argue that Coady has been knocking on the door (specifically for England) but not enough to make a selection difference

I’m not a Sterling fan but I can see why Southgate sticks with him. There’s a world class player there somewhere, just we don’t get to see it

I don't see any other player who offers the constant running, movement and directness of Sterling. Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho have different styles and strengths. Sterling is very important in how we play and will certainly start in Qatar.

But he does give plenty of ammunition to his critics. It's basically his composure and decision making at key moments that let him down; if he could add that he would be a genuine superstar of the game.

I would say that both Foden and Grealish offer just as much running, movement and directness as Sterling. I would say that both also have more end product. Not seen enough of Sancho to pass any comment and I would put all three of Sterling, Foden and Grealish ahead of Rashford. Apparently, Greenwood has asked not to be selected :shock:

Sterling's composure and decision making should be resolved by now. It's not like he's only played a dozen times.

I'm sorry but suggesting that Foden offers the same movement and running in behind is simply wrong. He's a generational talent, but his a playmaker. Swap him in for Sterling and you have a bunch of players with a similar skillset and nobody stretching the game.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Nov 2021 18:04

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WestYorksRoyal I don't see any other player who offers the constant running, movement and directness of Sterling. Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho have different styles and strengths. Sterling is very important in how we play and will certainly start in Qatar.

But he does give plenty of ammunition to his critics. It's basically his composure and decision making at key moments that let him down; if he could add that he would be a genuine superstar of the game.

I would say that both Foden and Grealish offer just as much running, movement and directness as Sterling. I would say that both also have more end product. Not seen enough of Sancho to pass any comment and I would put all three of Sterling, Foden and Grealish ahead of Rashford. Apparently, Greenwood has asked not to be selected :shock:

Sterling's composure and decision making should be resolved by now. It's not like he's only played a dozen times.

I'm sorry but suggesting that Foden offers the same movement and running in behind is simply wrong. He's a generational talent, but his a playmaker. Swap him in for Sterling and you have a bunch of players with a similar skillset and nobody stretching the game.

We may have to agree to disagree in this one.
You’re welcome to your opinion, as am I.
Be a very strange world if we all saw things the same

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 13 Nov 2021 19:02

Spoilt for choice though aren’t we?

I don’t think we’ve ever had such a high number of quality players to pick from

In some ways it makes things difficult. In other eras certain players would be guaranteed to play every game. Now there are only a handful, maybe just Kane, Maguire, Sterling and Pickford who get picked every time.

I agree with WYR about Sterling. He does make errors in decision making but he creates so many great situations you can forgive him. Well some of us can!

And it was only Albania but the style of play was very much more positive than in the Euro games. Reece James looked superb and along with Henderson gave us a more direct and attacking approach.. It only served to reinforce my feeling that we let Italy off the hook in the Euros semi.

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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 13 Nov 2021 19:21

bcubed Spoilt for choice though aren’t we?

I don’t think we’ve ever had such a high number of quality players to pick from

In some ways it makes things difficult. In other eras certain players would be guaranteed to play every game. Now there are only a handful, maybe just Kane, Maguire, Sterling and Pickford who get picked every time.

I agree with WYR about Sterling. He does make errors in decision making but he creates so many great situations you can forgive him. Well some of us can!

And it was only Albania but the style of play was very much more positive than in the Euro games. Reece James looked superb and along with Henderson gave us a more direct and attacking approach.. It only served to reinforce my feeling that we let Italy off the hook in the Euros semi.

And we should listen to someone who doesn't even know what round we played Italy in the Euros (just kidding)

We let Italy off the hook precisely because Sterling didn't do the things we've been discussing (amongst a number of other things)

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