England - the future....

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Hoop Blah
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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 13 Nov 2019 09:09

Old Man Andrews Sterling is our best player, he should be playing regardless of what he does (within reason).

He wants to win, Gomez wants to win. Southgate should have turned this into a positive.


I think the timing and handling of it is excellent.

One of the things that has consistently held us back is a lack of squad cohesion with divides based on club allegiances. This has allowed Southgate to show he's not going to accept that kind of shit and try to stamp it now and at a time when not having our best player available shouldn't really matter.

Pandering to a star player, or being over reliant on one, is another thing that's consistently damaged our chances going into big tournaments. This might also help that mindset a little too as it shows that no one player is bigger than the squad etc etc.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Nov 2019 09:26

Hoop Blah
Old Man Andrews Sterling is our best player, he should be playing regardless of what he does (within reason).

He wants to win, Gomez wants to win. Southgate should have turned this into a positive.


I think the timing and handling of it is excellent.

One of the things that has consistently held us back is a lack of squad cohesion with divides based on club allegiances. This has allowed Southgate to show he's not going to accept that kind of shit and try to stamp it now and at a time when not having our best player available shouldn't really matter.

Pandering to a star player, or being over reliant on one, is another thing that's consistently damaged our chances going into big tournaments. This might also help that mindset a little too as it shows that no one player is bigger than the squad etc etc.

Southgate has shown he isn't a good enough man manager to turn the situation into a positive I'm afraid. Most of the public, pundit opinion is against Southgate on this.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 13 Nov 2019 11:44

Old Man Andrews Southgate has shown he isn't a good enough man manager to turn the situation into a positive I'm afraid. Most of the public, pundit opinion is against Southgate on this.


I disagree, and from what I've seen and read the split is about 60/40 in favour, albeit with some of those who support it questioning the banning for one game as a token gesture that wouldn't have happened had it been a vital game.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Nov 2019 12:05

Hoop Blah
Old Man Andrews Southgate has shown he isn't a good enough man manager to turn the situation into a positive I'm afraid. Most of the public, pundit opinion is against Southgate on this.


I disagree, and from what I've seen and read the split is about 60/40 in favour, albeit with some of those who support it questioning the banning for one game as a token gesture that wouldn't have happened had it been a vital game.

Surely it is good for the players to resolve differences though? From the Sterling statement it would appear that they had words and then left it alone. I can only think there is a bit more to this i.e something physical happened that Sterling instigated, this would probably warrant being dropped.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sutekh » 13 Nov 2019 13:34

Sanguine
Hoop Blah It seems Sterling has gone off on one and grabbed Gomez by the throat in a confrontation in the canteen as a spill over from their on-pitch tussle on Sunday.

Sterling has been dropped for the next game as a result.

Just when the squad was seemingly quite settled with a good atmosphere!


Indeed. The continued booing of Sterling at Liverpool is unsavoury and pathetic, and I think this, and his reactions on the pitch on Sunday, show how it is affecting him.


While I’d agree and like everyone to forgive and forget etc. it just won’t happen. You know fans will boo certain players and managers who return in an effort to put them off their game and/or just make it difficult for them to get through the 90 minutes. Even happened at Reading with Mark McGhee, anyone who happened to be called Futcher and Liam Rosenior more recently

Up to the person concerned to react positively and use it as a reason to be that much better on the day.


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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 13 Nov 2019 14:08

Old Man Andrews
Hoop Blah
Old Man Andrews Southgate has shown he isn't a good enough man manager to turn the situation into a positive I'm afraid. Most of the public, pundit opinion is against Southgate on this.


I disagree, and from what I've seen and read the split is about 60/40 in favour, albeit with some of those who support it questioning the banning for one game as a token gesture that wouldn't have happened had it been a vital game.

Surely it is good for the players to resolve differences though? From the Sterling statement it would appear that they had words and then left it alone. I can only think there is a bit more to this i.e something physical happened that Sterling instigated, this would probably warrant being dropped.


Of course it's good to resolve differences, but grabbing a teammate around the throat in the canteen as soon as you walk in isn't the way to go about it!

And on your last point, there was something physical, that's the whole point of the story isn't it?

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Nov 2019 14:18

Hoop Blah
Old Man Andrews
Hoop Blah
I disagree, and from what I've seen and read the split is about 60/40 in favour, albeit with some of those who support it questioning the banning for one game as a token gesture that wouldn't have happened had it been a vital game.

Surely it is good for the players to resolve differences though? From the Sterling statement it would appear that they had words and then left it alone. I can only think there is a bit more to this i.e something physical happened that Sterling instigated, this would probably warrant being dropped.


Of course it's good to resolve differences, but grabbing a teammate around the throat in the canteen as soon as you walk in isn't the way to go about it!

And on your last point, there was something physical, that's the whole point of the story isn't it?

I thought that was denied? Last I saw there was an admission of a heated exchange of words from Sterling but nothing concrete on anything physical. If it is the case Sterling has gone for him then you can make a case for him being dropped but I wouldn't be in favour of it. Both guys should have been sent outside to sort it out either physically or verbally away fromt he group, let them get it out of their system. If anything then carries on after that then take the action.

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Re: England - the future....

by Victor Meldrew » 14 Nov 2019 16:01

Old Man Andrews
Hoop Blah
Old Man Andrews Surely it is good for the players to resolve differences though? From the Sterling statement it would appear that they had words and then left it alone. I can only think there is a bit more to this i.e something physical happened that Sterling instigated, this would probably warrant being dropped.


Of course it's good to resolve differences, but grabbing a teammate around the throat in the canteen as soon as you walk in isn't the way to go about it!

And on your last point, there was something physical, that's the whole point of the story isn't it?

I thought that was denied? Last I saw there was an admission of a heated exchange of words from Sterling but nothing concrete on anything physical. If it is the case Sterling has gone for him then you can make a case for him being dropped but I wouldn't be in favour of it. Both guys should have been sent outside to sort it out either physically or verbally away fromt he group, let them get it out of their system. If anything then carries on after that then take the action.


Guardian yesterday reported that there was a new "scar" on Gomez's face so it sounds a bit more than handbags.
You can take the boy out of London ..........................................you know the rest.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 14 Nov 2019 20:16

Stop lads, they are already dead.


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Re: England - the future....

by Franchise FC » 14 Nov 2019 20:41

And no VAR means that England are denied a very clear penalty (unless it’s viewed by a Premier League VAR) and Montenegro would be down to 10 already.

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Re: England - the future....

by Victor Meldrew » 15 Nov 2019 13:15

On the matter of booing did others hear it directed at Gomez when he came on as sub?
Priceless.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 15 Nov 2019 13:19

Victor Meldrew On the matter of booing did others hear it directed at Gomez when he came on as sub?
Priceless.


I didn't notice it to be honest, but I wasn't paying too much attention by the time he came on. I did see the camera focus in on Sterling though, and he made the point of clapping him on.

Fair play to Sterling though, he's come out since and said that the crowd were wrong to boo Gomez as he was the innocent party in all of this and Sterling only has himself to blame.

It was an odd substitution though, almost as if Southgate felt he had to prove a point by bringing him on. It meant we lost one of our main attacking threats by moving TAA into the midfield and had an extra defender at right back instead of a marauding wingback.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 15 Nov 2019 13:23

How anonymous was Mason Mount last night by the way?

People bang on about Barkley not deserving a place in the side, but if Mount is the alternative I don't see how anyone could make an argument for Mount based on his England appearances to date. He's obviously still young and inexperienced, and is probably in need of a rest after a heavy workload for Chelsea, but apart from being neat and tidy I've never really seen anything to get excited about with him.

I'm still not sure about Winks either. It's hard to know if he's got the defensive awareness to play that holding role (sorry, it's call the midfield pivot these days isn't it!) when he only really gets to play against the weaker teams (yeah, and Spain I think). I'd still favour Henderson over Winks or Rice, but it's the biggest question mark in the side still.


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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 15 Nov 2019 13:48

Hoop Blah How anonymous was Mason Mount last night by the way?

People bang on about Barkley not deserving a place in the side, but if Mount is the alternative I don't see how anyone could make an argument for Mount based on his England appearances to date. He's obviously still young and inexperienced, and is probably in need of a rest after a heavy workload for Chelsea, but apart from being neat and tidy I've never really seen anything to get excited about with him.

I'm still not sure about Winks either. It's hard to know if he's got the defensive awareness to play that holding role (sorry, it's call the midfield pivot these days isn't it!) when he only really gets to play against the weaker teams (yeah, and Spain I think). I'd still favour Henderson over Winks or Rice, but it's the biggest question mark in the side still.


Maddison should be the alternative.

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Re: England - the future....

by stealthpapes » 15 Nov 2019 13:57

Southgate has shown he isn't a good enough man manager to turn the situation into a positive I'm afraid. Most of the public, pundit opinion is against Southgate on this.


shit.
the.
bed.

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Re: England - the future....

by Victor Meldrew » 15 Nov 2019 14:56

Hoop Blah How anonymous was Mason Mount last night by the way?

People bang on about Barkley not deserving a place in the side, but if Mount is the alternative I don't see how anyone could make an argument for Mount based on his England appearances to date. He's obviously still young and inexperienced, and is probably in need of a rest after a heavy workload for Chelsea, but apart from being neat and tidy I've never really seen anything to get excited about with him.

I'm still not sure about Winks either. It's hard to know if he's got the defensive awareness to play that holding role (sorry, it's call the midfield pivot these days isn't it!) when he only really gets to play against the weaker teams (yeah, and Spain I think). I'd still favour Henderson over Winks or Rice, but it's the biggest question mark in the side still.


Spot on Hoops regarding Mount and Winks.
Even with the thrashing of Montenegro reserves there were still less than great performances and I would Sancho to these two as well as the two central defenders as picked on by those in the studio.

Southgate really does feel like a level-headed manager who doesn't get too carried away by wins or losses.
I think you are right that he brought Gomez on to make a bit of a statement.
BTW I would have fancied Reading to have beaten the opposition last night by at least 2 goals-I know they had loads out injured by they looked as bad as Andorra or Luxembourg.

I hate these International breaks.

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Re: England - the future....

by URZZZZ » 15 Nov 2019 17:18

Hoop Blah How anonymous was Mason Mount last night by the way?

People bang on about Barkley not deserving a place in the side, but if Mount is the alternative I don't see how anyone could make an argument for Mount based on his England appearances to date. He's obviously still young and inexperienced, and is probably in need of a rest after a heavy workload for Chelsea, but apart from being neat and tidy I've never really seen anything to get excited about with him.

I'm still not sure about Winks either. It's hard to know if he's got the defensive awareness to play that holding role (sorry, it's call the midfield pivot these days isn't it!) when he only really gets to play against the weaker teams (yeah, and Spain I think). I'd still favour Henderson over Winks or Rice, but it's the biggest question mark in the side still.


Currently, Maddison and Grealish are better players than Mount IMO. But I have no problem with seeing Mount in and around the first XI given his age and chances of development. Whereas Barkley has been in and around the England team for over 5 years now and still regularly flatters to decieve with the occasional brilliance against lower league teams. I think Loftus Cheek will go onto be better than Barkley but not sure exactly where he can fit in this team

I can't ever seem to make my mind up about Winks, he's not a bad player but I don't exactly think he's great either. As you say, Henderson is probably a better option there but people seem to criticize Henderson all the time (Champions League winner and all that)

I'd also put a question mark over wingers. Sterling is the only one I'm confident about. Rashford probably pips Sancho (never really seen him play well) and Hudson-Odoi (who I think is overrated at this stage of development) but Rashford hardly inspires with confidence. It's a shame we only play with one striker because I'd want to see Kane and Abraham in the same XI

Hopefully though, Southgate has established the best fullback partnership in TAA and Chilwell. I'd be a bit wary of using TAA in a flat back four against the top sides because I think his defending can be improved upon and someone like Walker may be better in that department but offensively these two are by far and away the best

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 16 Nov 2019 08:59

Foden should be ahead of all the aforementioned young midfielders.

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Re: England - the future....

by Victor Meldrew » 16 Nov 2019 10:15

Royal Rother Foden should be ahead of all the aforementioned young midfielders.


Still too early for Foden.
Next season, when he replaces David Silva , we will see whether he is up to it.

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 16 Nov 2019 11:50

Victor Meldrew
Royal Rother Foden should be ahead of all the aforementioned young midfielders.


Still too early for Foden.
Next season, when he replaces David Silva , we will see whether he is up to it.


Only because he’s not getting game time. If he was at Chelsea he’d be playing and probably be a starter for England I suspect as he’s going to be better than Mount, Maddison and Winks.

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