Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

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Stranded
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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Stranded » 30 Nov 2022 09:04

Brogue
Stranded Well in the end, England qualified comfortably - currently top scorers in the tournament - realistically only Spain look like scoring the same or more (unless France win 3-0 or better).

Noticeable how in the two games where they were on the front foot more, they look decent and capable of scoring a lot of goals but in the US game where the set up was very much, don't lose they looked pedestrian and not much cop.

They are very unlikely to win it but they should have enough to see off Senegal, if they set up to be positive.

Southgate's tournament record is frankly ridiculously good, last night being his 10th win from 16 tournament games and in my view, if he steers England to the semis again (esp as that will involve likely having to get past France), then he gets another 2 years.


Interesting you use the word ‘they’ when referring to England, rather than ‘we’. I know you’ve lived in Germany for a number of years now. But you are English, no? You’re using the wrong pronoun.


Last time I checked, I wasn't in the squad hence the use of they - only every use we when talking about the club.

Also though, I'm British by birth and German by choice, so probably do have slightly more affinity to the latter these days but probably about even at the moment.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by bcubed » 30 Nov 2022 09:06

Brogue
Stranded Well in the end, England qualified comfortably - currently top scorers in the tournament - realistically only Spain look like scoring the same or more (unless France win 3-0 or better).

Noticeable how in the two games where they were on the front foot more, they look decent and capable of scoring a lot of goals but in the US game where the set up was very much, don't lose they looked pedestrian and not much cop.

They are very unlikely to win it but they should have enough to see off Senegal, if they set up to be positive.

Southgate's tournament record is frankly ridiculously good, last night being his 10th win from 16 tournament games and in my view, if he steers England to the semis again (esp as that will involve likely having to get past France), then he gets another 2 years.


Interesting you use the word ‘they’ when referring to England, rather than ‘we’. I know you’ve lived in Germany for a number of years now. But you are English, no? You’re using the wrong pronoun.


One has always found the use of pronouns incredibly revealing

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by paultheroyal » 30 Nov 2022 09:15

England were brilliant last night i thought. I actually thought they were decent in the first half. Totally dictated that half, just lacked the cutting edge, pass etc.

Tweak in the second half and they were utterly dominant. Fantastic display.

As for Wales, utterly dreadful. What were they thinking? They clearly wrote off the 4-0 win before the game so tactic was to frustrate and score late and panic England in the hope that Iran vs USA was a draw. They thought that was the more likely outcome. Would of been hilarious if Iran did equalise and oh boy did they have some chances. Wales devoid of idea, attacking play, could not even string any passes together. It was very strange. Page saying how proud he was of that performance, dreary me.

Anyway, onto the next one, tournament football at its best.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by bcubed » 30 Nov 2022 09:17

YorkshireRoyal99
Stranded Well in the end, England qualified comfortably - currently top scorers in the tournament - realistically only Spain look like scoring the same or more (unless France win 3-0 or better).

Noticeable how in the two games where they were on the front foot more, they look decent and capable of scoring a lot of goals but in the US game where the set up was very much, don't lose they looked pedestrian and not much cop.

They are very unlikely to win it but they should have enough to see off Senegal, if they set up to be positive.

Southgate's tournament record is frankly ridiculously good, last night being his 10th win from 16 tournament games and in my view, if he steers England to the semis again (esp as that will involve likely having to get past France), then he gets another 2 years.


Yeah we seem to look better after getting a goal, getting some momentum and going after teams. Criticisers, be it rightly or wrongly, will say that's how we should be playing against most sides and I suppose there's a degree of truth in that really, we look quite passive and laboured up until we score and then we seem to be very ruthless after that. Admittedly, it's hard to keep that tempo up in tournament football when you're playing every few days.

I wouldn't say we are "very unlikely" to win it, there is only really France, Brazil and Spain that look any cop from the teams you'd expect to reach the latter stages. I'm not sure how good Spain would look against better opposition, as shown by Germany the other day, Brazil were comfortable yet unconvincing against Switzerland but France have looked strong again. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for us to win it, although I don't think we will.

A QF defeat to France would be "acceptable" as they do look strong once again, but if we go beyond that then we've done really well.


These comments actually support the view that we missed opportunities against Croatia and Italy. We didn't play aggressive positive football. And the players are there to do it, as they've just shown.

Yes of course we did so much better than in previous tournaments but the nagging doubt remains that these were massive chances to win.

And that is where the frustration with Southgate's (historical) tactics comes from.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by 6ft Kerplunk » 30 Nov 2022 09:18

Zip
Tails Wales did well to get to Qatar. Sure they’d have probably have preferred Bale and Allen from 5-6 years ago but it’s another major tournament. Hope to see them ruffle a few feathers at the next one.

I hope we go for a back 4 and Rice defensively, with more attacking midfielders for Senegal. Don’t mind if we revert to a more defensive shape should we get to the quarters, those games tend to be tight affairs anyway.


It will be interesting to see which way Southgate goes with his selection. I think Foden now starts. Don’t think he will make many changes from tonight’s starting line up.

Can't see how Mount and Sterling get back in ahead of Rashford and Foden. Whether we see Rashford and Foden will depend on whether we stick with a back three or revert to a back four. If its a back four I'd really want Walker as the right back to give us some covering pace. Rashford to start on the left and hopefully Southgate will trust Foden in the Mount role with Saka on the right.
Was getting a bit irritated with Kane last night. In a game where the opposition are trying to get 10 men behind the ball when we're attacking Kane constantly dropping deep just allows the defence to compact the space even more, should stay up front and try to push the defence back with his movement.


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 09:24

Next up will be the first ever game with Senegal on Sunday 4 December at 7pm. To date England have played 20 games against 9 different African opponents (Algeria (played 1), Cameroon (4), Egypt (3), Ghana (1), Ivory Coast (1), Morocco (2), Nigeria (3), South Africa (2) and Tunisia (3)) winning 14 and drawing 6 of them, so England have never lost to an African nation (sorry about that bit but it’ll no doubt be repeated several times in the coming days). Goal difference is 34 scored and 11 conceded, win ratio is 70%.

The winner of the game is going to find themselves, at this point, most likely playing one of France, Argentina or (if you’re feeling really hopeful) Poland in the quarter finals which will take place at 7pm on Saturday 10 December - note that if England do reach the QFs the kick off time for Reading v Coventry may well be brought forward so that any travelling support for either club have good time to get back home in time.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 09:37

bcubed
YorkshireRoyal99
Stranded Well in the end, England qualified comfortably - currently top scorers in the tournament - realistically only Spain look like scoring the same or more (unless France win 3-0 or better).

Noticeable how in the two games where they were on the front foot more, they look decent and capable of scoring a lot of goals but in the US game where the set up was very much, don't lose they looked pedestrian and not much cop.

They are very unlikely to win it but they should have enough to see off Senegal, if they set up to be positive.

Southgate's tournament record is frankly ridiculously good, last night being his 10th win from 16 tournament games and in my view, if he steers England to the semis again (esp as that will involve likely having to get past France), then he gets another 2 years.


Yeah we seem to look better after getting a goal, getting some momentum and going after teams. Criticisers, be it rightly or wrongly, will say that's how we should be playing against most sides and I suppose there's a degree of truth in that really, we look quite passive and laboured up until we score and then we seem to be very ruthless after that. Admittedly, it's hard to keep that tempo up in tournament football when you're playing every few days.

I wouldn't say we are "very unlikely" to win it, there is only really France, Brazil and Spain that look any cop from the teams you'd expect to reach the latter stages. I'm not sure how good Spain would look against better opposition, as shown by Germany the other day, Brazil were comfortable yet unconvincing against Switzerland but France have looked strong again. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for us to win it, although I don't think we will.

A QF defeat to France would be "acceptable" as they do look strong once again, but if we go beyond that then we've done really well.


These comments actually support the view that we missed opportunities against Croatia and Italy. We didn't play aggressive positive football. And the players are there to do it, as they've just shown.

Yes of course we did so much better than in previous tournaments but the nagging doubt remains that these were massive chances to win.

And that is where the frustration with Southgate's (historical) tactics comes from.


This is pretty much it and why many will say England achieved semi final and runners up places despite him and not because of him. With the squad England have you have to play to its strengths which are attacking and winning set pieces, if the “don’t concede” approach is tried for any length of time against any team that’s half decent England will be in trouble.

Perhaps the dismal performance v the US, the earlier failures v Croatia and Italy will wake GS up a bit and just may be he won’t revert to type when France most likely roll up for the QF game (presuming England don’t cock up v Senegal of course) as the thought of trying to play safetyball against Giroud, Griezmann and Mbappe doesn’t bear thinking about - esp. as I don’t think the French defence is the strongest about the world game at the moment so there would be opportunities to be had with a more positive approach.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by tulip » 30 Nov 2022 10:03

Stranded
Brogue
Stranded Well in the end, England qualified comfortably - currently top scorers in the tournament - realistically only Spain look like scoring the same or more (unless France win 3-0 or better).

Noticeable how in the two games where they were on the front foot more, they look decent and capable of scoring a lot of goals but in the US game where the set up was very much, don't lose they looked pedestrian and not much cop.

They are very unlikely to win it but they should have enough to see off Senegal, if they set up to be positive.

Southgate's tournament record is frankly ridiculously good, last night being his 10th win from 16 tournament games and in my view, if he steers England to the semis again (esp as that will involve likely having to get past France), then he gets another 2 years.


Interesting you use the word ‘they’ when referring to England, rather than ‘we’. I know you’ve lived in Germany for a number of years now. But you are English, no? You’re using the wrong pronoun.


Last time I checked, I wasn't in the squad hence the use of they - only every use we when talking about the club.

Also though, I'm British by birth and German by choice, so probably do have slightly more affinity to the latter these days but probably about even at the moment.

Also British by birth and Dutch by choice. Brexit changed me, so more a Dutch supporter than England (I've also lived here much longer than I lived in England). I pray the 2 don't meet in the tournament, I don't think they will.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 30 Nov 2022 10:08

tulip
Stranded
Brogue
Interesting you use the word ‘they’ when referring to England, rather than ‘we’. I know you’ve lived in Germany for a number of years now. But you are English, no? You’re using the wrong pronoun.


Last time I checked, I wasn't in the squad hence the use of they - only every use we when talking about the club.

Also though, I'm British by birth and German by choice, so probably do have slightly more affinity to the latter these days but probably about even at the moment.

Also British by birth and Dutch by choice. Brexit changed me, so more a Dutch supporter than England (I've also lived here much longer than I lived in England). I pray the 2 don't meet in the tournament, I don't think they will.


As they both won their group, I don't think they can meet until the final now, which I would imagine will be quite unlikely, but you never know.


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Uke » 30 Nov 2022 10:24

Well done Marcus!






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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by South Coast Royal » 30 Nov 2022 10:27

[quote="Tails"]Wales did well to get to Qatar. Sure they’d have probably have preferred Bale and Allen from 5-6 years ago but it’s another major tournament. Hope to see them ruffle a few feathers at the next one.

Thoroughly agree on your point about Wales doing well to even get there.
With a squad that contains Gunter and Williams from Div 2, Morrell from div 1 , quite a few Championship players and only Ben Davies from a top level club they really couldn't have been expected to progress any further.

By comparison, England's squad is made up of many from top 6 Premier League clubs, one from a top German club and the rest from other Premier League clubs, the same Premier League described as the best in the world.
With that squad, losing quarter finalists should be the bare minimum.

I expect some of you have the missus watching some of these games when otherwise uninterested.
Mine came out last night with "If he is so good why didn't he play in the last game?" IIRC referring to either Foden or Rashford, can't remember which.

My answer FWIW was that we have a squad where there is so little difference in the quality of individual players that it doesn't matter too much what 11 we start with, especially as 5 more can come on as subs.
I then suggested that I don't think we will win it because we have 26 players that are very good but nobody really outstanding who would get into a team of the best 11 in the tournament and usually, but not always, you need that extra bit of class to win outright.

Obviously that is not always the case as a good team all playing well can beat a side that relies too much on their top player (s) doing something a bit special.

We are through having beaten two of the three worst sides in the tournament and got a draw against one of the middle of the road teams-now it all starts for real and much to look forward to however far we go.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by URZZZZ » 30 Nov 2022 10:29

Sutekh
bcubed
YorkshireRoyal99
Yeah we seem to look better after getting a goal, getting some momentum and going after teams. Criticisers, be it rightly or wrongly, will say that's how we should be playing against most sides and I suppose there's a degree of truth in that really, we look quite passive and laboured up until we score and then we seem to be very ruthless after that. Admittedly, it's hard to keep that tempo up in tournament football when you're playing every few days.

I wouldn't say we are "very unlikely" to win it, there is only really France, Brazil and Spain that look any cop from the teams you'd expect to reach the latter stages. I'm not sure how good Spain would look against better opposition, as shown by Germany the other day, Brazil were comfortable yet unconvincing against Switzerland but France have looked strong again. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for us to win it, although I don't think we will.

A QF defeat to France would be "acceptable" as they do look strong once again, but if we go beyond that then we've done really well.


These comments actually support the view that we missed opportunities against Croatia and Italy. We didn't play aggressive positive football. And the players are there to do it, as they've just shown.

Yes of course we did so much better than in previous tournaments but the nagging doubt remains that these were massive chances to win.

And that is where the frustration with Southgate's (historical) tactics comes from.


This is pretty much it and why many will say England achieved semi final and runners up places despite him and not because of him. With the squad England have you have to play to its strengths which are attacking and winning set pieces, if the “don’t concede” approach is tried for any length of time against any team that’s half decent England will be in trouble.

Perhaps the dismal performance v the US, the earlier failures v Croatia and Italy will wake GS up a bit and just may be he won’t revert to type when France most likely roll up for the QF game (presuming England don’t cock up v Senegal of course) as the thought of trying to play safetyball against Giroud, Griezmann and Mbappe doesn’t bear thinking about - esp. as I don’t think the French defence is the strongest about the world game at the moment so there would be opportunities to be had with a more positive approach.


Or, perhaps Southgate has identified our weakest position by quite some distance is the CB’s. Stones always has a mistake in him and so does Maguire (although his scapegoating has been disgraceful). Can you really imagine any other outcome if we opened up against France with Dembele, Mbappe and Griezmann running at the defence? It wouldn’t even be a contest. Pragmatic solution is to plug the gaps in midfield and leave little space between the lines, even if it doesn’t make for as good a spectacle. After all, Southgate is primarily judged on his ability to win games at major tournaments

It’s one thing playing to your strengths. But you also have to hit the balance of mitigating your weaknesses. As much as our attack boasts quality, it simply isn’t as good as France’s. In an open end to end game, they’d win if we tried to match them

Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Mr Angry » 30 Nov 2022 10:38

A tournament too far for Bale (the greatest every British footballer got a total of 7 touches in the game) and Ramsey, both of whom were passengers. It was clear after the Iran result that Wales wouldn't pose a problem for England and so it turned out.

Going forward for England, we have to play positive, aggressive and attacking football; we look far better playing that way and bluntly, I think a back four of Stones and Maguire always looks as if they are going to concede soft goals.

I think the game against Senegal will be open and a potential classic; I don't think Senegal have ever tried to paly defensively and they will be going for it.


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 30 Nov 2022 10:50

It'll be a good pub quiz question in the future - who scored England's 100th World Cup goal.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Winston Biscuit » 30 Nov 2022 10:58

World cup top scorers:

3 - Rashford (36 mins per goal)]
3 - Mbappe (60 mins per goal)
3 - Gakpo (84 mins per goal)
3 - Valencia (85 mins per goal)

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Loafer » 30 Nov 2022 11:10

Uke Well done Marcus!






That's not Marcus Rashford, that is Phil Foren HTH

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Loafer » 30 Nov 2022 11:10

Hendo It'll be a good pub quiz question in the future - who scored England's 100th World Cup goal.

Marcus Rashford

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 30 Nov 2022 11:23


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by genome » 30 Nov 2022 12:00

:lol:

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by windermereROYAL » 30 Nov 2022 12:15

Sorry if this has been posted before, but televised WC since 1998 BBC 16 games 12 wins. ITV 15 games 2 wins.
Guess what channel it is on Sunday.

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