windermereROYAL Sorry if this has been posted before, but televised WC since 1998 BBC 16 games 12 wins. ITV 15 games 2 wins.
Guess what channel it is on Sunday.
Men & Motors?
by Winston Biscuit » 30 Nov 2022 12:35
windermereROYAL Sorry if this has been posted before, but televised WC since 1998 BBC 16 games 12 wins. ITV 15 games 2 wins.
Guess what channel it is on Sunday.
by Conservative_dad » 30 Nov 2022 12:37
Winston Biscuit World cup top scorers:
3 - Rashford (36 mins per goal)]
3 - Mbappe (60 mins per goal)
3 - Gakpo (84 mins per goal)
3 - Valencia (85 mins per goal)
by YorkshireRoyal99 » 30 Nov 2022 12:45
URZZZZSutekhbcubed
These comments actually support the view that we missed opportunities against Croatia and Italy. We didn't play aggressive positive football. And the players are there to do it, as they've just shown.
Yes of course we did so much better than in previous tournaments but the nagging doubt remains that these were massive chances to win.
And that is where the frustration with Southgate's (historical) tactics comes from.
This is pretty much it and why many will say England achieved semi final and runners up places despite him and not because of him. With the squad England have you have to play to its strengths which are attacking and winning set pieces, if the “don’t concede” approach is tried for any length of time against any team that’s half decent England will be in trouble.
Perhaps the dismal performance v the US, the earlier failures v Croatia and Italy will wake GS up a bit and just may be he won’t revert to type when France most likely roll up for the QF game (presuming England don’t cock up v Senegal of course) as the thought of trying to play safetyball against Giroud, Griezmann and Mbappe doesn’t bear thinking about - esp. as I don’t think the French defence is the strongest about the world game at the moment so there would be opportunities to be had with a more positive approach.
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
by South Coast Royal » 30 Nov 2022 13:30
paultheroyal England were brilliant last night i thought. I actually thought they were decent in the first half. Totally dictated that half, just lacked the cutting edge, pass etc.
Tweak in the second half and they were utterly dominant. Fantastic display.
As for Wales, utterly dreadful. What were they thinking? They clearly wrote off the 4-0 win before the game so tactic was to frustrate and score late and panic England in the hope that Iran vs USA was a draw. They thought that was the more likely outcome. Would of been hilarious if Iran did equalise and oh boy did they have some chances. Wales devoid of idea, attacking play, could not even string any passes together. It was very strange. Page saying how proud he was of that performance, dreary me.
Anyway, onto the next one, tournament football at its best.
by Conservative_dad » 30 Nov 2022 14:59
YorkshireRoyal99URZZZZSutekh
This is pretty much it and why many will say England achieved semi final and runners up places despite him and not because of him. With the squad England have you have to play to its strengths which are attacking and winning set pieces, if the “don’t concede” approach is tried for any length of time against any team that’s half decent England will be in trouble.
Perhaps the dismal performance v the US, the earlier failures v Croatia and Italy will wake GS up a bit and just may be he won’t revert to type when France most likely roll up for the QF game (presuming England don’t cock up v Senegal of course) as the thought of trying to play safetyball against Giroud, Griezmann and Mbappe doesn’t bear thinking about - esp. as I don’t think the French defence is the strongest about the world game at the moment so there would be opportunities to be had with a more positive approach.
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
by Hendo » 30 Nov 2022 15:05
Conservative_dadYorkshireRoyal99URZZZZ
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
I've watched United enough to tell you that Rashford is not a number 9.
He's best off the left but not so good off the right. Like you say he's gr8 at getting in behind and is usually v good at one on ones with the keeper
by Vision » 30 Nov 2022 15:26
YorkshireRoyal99URZZZZSutekh
This is pretty much it and why many will say England achieved semi final and runners up places despite him and not because of him. With the squad England have you have to play to its strengths which are attacking and winning set pieces, if the “don’t concede” approach is tried for any length of time against any team that’s half decent England will be in trouble.
Perhaps the dismal performance v the US, the earlier failures v Croatia and Italy will wake GS up a bit and just may be he won’t revert to type when France most likely roll up for the QF game (presuming England don’t cock up v Senegal of course) as the thought of trying to play safetyball against Giroud, Griezmann and Mbappe doesn’t bear thinking about - esp. as I don’t think the French defence is the strongest about the world game at the moment so there would be opportunities to be had with a more positive approach.
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 15:31
windermereROYAL Sorry if this has been posted before, but televised WC since 1998 BBC 16 games 12 wins. ITV 15 games 2 wins.
Guess what channel it is on Sunday.
by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 15:33
Conservative_dadWinston Biscuit World cup top scorers:
3 - Rashford (36 mins per goal)]
3 - Mbappe (60 mins per goal)
3 - Gakpo (84 mins per goal)
3 - Valencia (85 mins per goal)
United player and united target in that list
we're bossing the WC at the mo
by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 15:47
VisionYorkshireRoyal99URZZZZ
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
Are we stagnant because Kane drops deep at times or does Kane drop deep at times because we're stagnant? Pretty much the only time we broke the Welsh defence yesterday in the first half was when he dropped deep and slipped a great pass through to Rashford vacating the space he'd left. Likewise in the US game linking up with Saka down the right.
I don't think Kane gets in the penalty area any less anyway. He's just developed this part of his game in the last couple of years and as it turns out he's a very good creative passer given the opportunity.
There's also a little revisionism about that Croatia semi final going on too. We didn't have yer Fodens, Sakas, Grealishs then. We had the likes of Dele Alli, Jesse Lingard and Ashley Young plus Raheem Sterling who everyone now thinks is shit. . All good players actually but not exactly the World Class attacking talent we seem to believe we have at our disposal now.
The Euros ended disappointingly of course and Southgate's handling of the substitutes was criminal in my opinion but we tend to forget that Italy were the best team throughout that tournament. The opposition do turn up and play at times as well.
by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 16:19
by bcubed » 30 Nov 2022 16:29
VisionYorkshireRoyal99URZZZZ
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
Are we stagnant because Kane drops deep at times or does Kane drop deep at times because we're stagnant? Pretty much the only time we broke the Welsh defence yesterday in the first half was when he dropped deep and slipped a great pass through to Rashford vacating the space he'd left. Likewise in the US game linking up with Saka down the right.
I don't think Kane gets in the penalty area any less anyway. He's just developed this part of his game in the last couple of years and as it turns out he's a very good creative passer given the opportunity.
There's also a little revisionism about that Croatia semi final going on too. We didn't have yer Fodens, Sakas, Grealishs then. We had the likes of Dele Alli, Jesse Lingard and Ashley Young plus Raheem Sterling who everyone now thinks is shit. . All good players actually but not exactly the World Class attacking talent we seem to believe we have at our disposal now.
The Euros ended disappointingly of course and Southgate's handling of the substitutes was criminal in my opinion but we tend to forget that Italy were the best team throughout that tournament. The opposition do turn up and play at times as well.
by Mr Angry » 30 Nov 2022 16:35
Sutekh Currently
Australia 1-0 Denmark
Tunisia 1-0 France ‘B’
Australia only 3 goals away from winning the group
by Mr Angry » 30 Nov 2022 16:39
by YorkshireRoyal99 » 30 Nov 2022 16:40
VisionYorkshireRoyal99URZZZZ
Personally think whilst there’s all this to and fro about us setting up defensively (even as top scorers - the irony), the more prevalent issue is our reluctance to take a man on. Too many slow square passes in the first half. Second half we swap wingers, Foden runs through them, wins a free kick (even with it being a dive) and we score. Being direct hurts the opposition and credit to Southgate for swapping the wide players at half time (something that has been scarcely mentioned of course)
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
Are we stagnant because Kane drops deep at times or does Kane drop deep at times because we're stagnant? Pretty much the only time we broke the Welsh defence yesterday in the first half was when he dropped deep and slipped a great pass through to Rashford vacating the space he'd left. Likewise in the US game linking up with Saka down the right.
I don't think Kane gets in the penalty area any less anyway. He's just developed this part of his game in the last couple of years and as it turns out he's a very good creative passer given the opportunity.
There's also a little revisionism about that Croatia semi final going on too. We didn't have yer Fodens, Sakas, Grealishs then. We had the likes of Dele Alli, Jesse Lingard and Ashley Young plus Raheem Sterling who everyone now thinks is shit. . All good players actually but not exactly the World Class attacking talent we seem to believe we have at our disposal now.
The Euros ended disappointingly of course and Southgate's handling of the substitutes was criminal in my opinion but we tend to forget that Italy were the best team throughout that tournament. The opposition do turn up and play at times as well.
by Vision » 30 Nov 2022 16:53
bcubedVisionYorkshireRoyal99
I think the defensive set us does come from that reluctance to be direct and have a go at players. A friend on mine made a comment last night, "Wales will just look to hurt Kane and injure him for the tournament" and I actually thought, that might make us better. Kane's assist for Foden was great last night and part of what he's about, but thinking about it this morning, that should be the other way around, Foden to Kane. Sometimes with Kane dropping in, we end up with like a 4-6-0 shape, it becomes too easy to defend against.
The difference with someone like Rashford is you can play a more direct style, you can look to play forward and through the lines because you know that he will be wanting to run in behind, he will stretch the game vertically, he will always give the opposition CB's a problem and a threat through that area and he can run the channels and get at players. Maybe at the cost of having Kane who is obviously excellent at what he does, but I think we try and get Kane "too involved" in the build-up and less involved in his bread and butter, which is putting the ball in the net and stating central, occupying CB's etc.
Are we stagnant because Kane drops deep at times or does Kane drop deep at times because we're stagnant? Pretty much the only time we broke the Welsh defence yesterday in the first half was when he dropped deep and slipped a great pass through to Rashford vacating the space he'd left. Likewise in the US game linking up with Saka down the right.
I don't think Kane gets in the penalty area any less anyway. He's just developed this part of his game in the last couple of years and as it turns out he's a very good creative passer given the opportunity.
There's also a little revisionism about that Croatia semi final going on too. We didn't have yer Fodens, Sakas, Grealishs then. We had the likes of Dele Alli, Jesse Lingard and Ashley Young plus Raheem Sterling who everyone now thinks is shit. . All good players actually but not exactly the World Class attacking talent we seem to believe we have at our disposal now.
The Euros ended disappointingly of course and Southgate's handling of the substitutes was criminal in my opinion but we tend to forget that Italy were the best team throughout that tournament. The opposition do turn up and play at times as well.
There were plenty of subs (albeit not as good as the current crop) he could have tried against Croatia
And Italy weren't that good and were there for the taking imo. Probably evidenced by the fact they didn't qualify for the WC
by bcubed » 30 Nov 2022 17:14
VisionbcubedVision
Are we stagnant because Kane drops deep at times or does Kane drop deep at times because we're stagnant? Pretty much the only time we broke the Welsh defence yesterday in the first half was when he dropped deep and slipped a great pass through to Rashford vacating the space he'd left. Likewise in the US game linking up with Saka down the right.
I don't think Kane gets in the penalty area any less anyway. He's just developed this part of his game in the last couple of years and as it turns out he's a very good creative passer given the opportunity.
There's also a little revisionism about that Croatia semi final going on too. We didn't have yer Fodens, Sakas, Grealishs then. We had the likes of Dele Alli, Jesse Lingard and Ashley Young plus Raheem Sterling who everyone now thinks is shit. . All good players actually but not exactly the World Class attacking talent we seem to believe we have at our disposal now.
The Euros ended disappointingly of course and Southgate's handling of the substitutes was criminal in my opinion but we tend to forget that Italy were the best team throughout that tournament. The opposition do turn up and play at times as well.
There were plenty of subs (albeit not as good as the current crop) he could have tried against Croatia
And Italy weren't that good and were there for the taking imo. Probably evidenced by the fact they didn't qualify for the WC
Hmm. Loftus-Cheek maybe? A teenage TAA? perhaps. After that you're left with Danny Welbeck as the only unused attacking option. It definitely wasn't the embarrassment of attacking riches thats being claimed nor is it comparable to what we have (or think we have) now.
We'll have to agree to disagree on how good Italy were during that month. What they subsequently did , doesn't really affect how they were during that tournament.
by Vision » 30 Nov 2022 17:43
bcubedVisionbcubed
There were plenty of subs (albeit not as good as the current crop) he could have tried against Croatia
And Italy weren't that good and were there for the taking imo. Probably evidenced by the fact they didn't qualify for the WC
Hmm. Loftus-Cheek maybe? A teenage TAA? perhaps. After that you're left with Danny Welbeck as the only unused attacking option. It definitely wasn't the embarrassment of attacking riches thats being claimed nor is it comparable to what we have (or think we have) now.
We'll have to agree to disagree on how good Italy were during that month. What they subsequently did , doesn't really affect how they were during that tournament.
The options for the Croatia game weren't as good as now for sure. As i acknowledged. But worth a try when the game's on the line imo.
And also agreed to disagree on Italy.
I'm probably biased as I went to the Final. It was an organisational shambles. We lost. My son picked up Covid. Getting out afterwards was also diabolical. Have never watched it back but my feeling at the time remains that we could have used subs and been more attacking
by Loafer » 30 Nov 2022 18:53
by Sutekh » 30 Nov 2022 19:29
Loafer BREAKING! Exclusively from Qatar!!!!!
Ben White has left due to personal reasons and will not return, and wishes his privacy is respected.
Hope he's okay
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