VAR

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tmesis
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Re: VAR

by tmesis » 20 Jun 2019 19:58

I think it should be like cricket, where each team is allowed an appeal or two per game. If something has happened and the ref can't tell, then they can call for it, but at the moment it's being used too much.

Half of the problem is the amount of time it takes to make a decision as well. It's farcical, because you have the VAR officials, who I assume are all qualified refs, who make a decision, but rather than accepting that they've made a decision, the ref has to run over and look at all the footage as well. It doubles the time it takes.

You do also, as mentioned above, have the problem that refs don't seem to be adding on enough time for VAR delays.

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: VAR

by From Despair To Where? » 20 Jun 2019 22:20

I also think it should only be used as a safeguard against the officials dropping a massive bollock, or as a reference point for the referee if they're not sure on a decision, not to scrutinise fine lines.

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 21 Jun 2019 09:34

From Despair To Where? I also think it should only be used as a safeguard against the officials dropping a massive bollock, or as a reference point for the referee if they're not sure on a decision, not to scrutinise fine lines.


Don't agree on this. As I said in an earlier post, I think VAR should purely be used where the VAR officials believe that a mistake has been made. TV replays aren't a get out for when referees aren't sure. If they aren't sure, then they can't give the penalty, or red card - and VAR will correct them if they are wrong.

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Re: VAR

by Platypuss » 21 Jun 2019 13:14

I have no issue with technology deciding on matters of fact - eg

Goalie off line
Ball out of play
Encroachment in area.

it just needs to be quicker.

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 21 Jun 2019 13:17

I'd be really interested to know how many of the penalties saved last season were legit, i.e. keeper had at least one foot on or behind the line. And equally how many penalties scored did not have an attacking player encroaching in the area.


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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 21 Jun 2019 14:52

Sanguine I'd be really interested to know how many of the penalties saved last season were legit, i.e. keeper had at least one foot on or behind the line. And equally how many penalties scored did not have an attacking player encroaching in the area.


My guess would be NONE !

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Hendo
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Re: VAR

by Hendo » 21 Jun 2019 15:33

If the pen is scored but the 'keeper still moves off the line, does it have to be re-taken?

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Re: VAR

by Platypuss » 21 Jun 2019 17:12

No (assuming no breaches by shooting side)

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Re: VAR

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2019 09:37

Royal Rother They are getting into dangerous territory now.

Imagine a WC Final decided by penalty shoot out.

Strike, scored, Team A celebrates and the fans go wild. Uh oh, an attacker encroached by 6 inches. Retake required.
Strike, saved, Team B go wild, but uh oh, the keeper was off the line by 2 inches. Retake required. Etc. Etc. It could go on for bloody hours!

Eventually the fans would just stop getting involved and celebrating as much - football does bring about major swings in emotions, but it needs the freedom and space for those emotional reactions after each significant mini event within the game, to fully engage the fans. Letting go of emotions at a goal only to have it disallowed is one of the most terrible things in life to go through after death and divorce! People hate the feeling of utter humiliation that goes with screaming and celebrating only to have to wind it in after 20 seconds.... even worse when everyone else spotted the flag before you.... we’ve all been there I’m sure. But in reality, that’s been a bit of a rarity. Until now.

If the inclination to celebrate the moment of a goal like a complete mental is reduced, which it undoubtedly will be in the current situation, then it WILL have an impact on fans and people WILL stop engaging in the same way and some WILL stop going / watching.

It won’t mean the total collapse of the game but the negative impact would be felt in so many ways. They really can’t afford to fcuk this up but that is exactly what they are doing and I think it is pretty amazing to witness it. Every game there seems to be another way to piss about with people’s emotions unearthed.

It may take a while for the dissatisfaction / outrage to build but somewhere along the line this is going to get really ugly for football because the negative impact of fcuking with people’s emotions will be considerable.

How is an attacker going to encroach in a penalty shootout when everyone except the taker and keeper is stood on the halfway line?

All of your complaint is not unique to VAR. Ref's can still order retakes if a keeper is off their line without VAR.

VAR is not the problem, it's the judgement of the referees.


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Re: VAR

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2019 09:47

URZZZZ Was against VAR before tonight but open to improvements in the system. But after tonight, I'm shocked anyone can defend it. So many errors in that 3rd goal, Scotland's sub problem, the retake of the penalty was ludicrous and the referee failing to add any injury time when it nearly took 10 minutes. VAR is the collapse of an already rapidly declining game IMO unless they fix it very quickly

So VAR saw an objective issue the ref missed (keeper off the line). VAR correct, and the ref failed to add additional time - Ref error, but VAR is at fault for it?

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Re: VAR

by Royal Rother » 22 Jun 2019 10:19

Jeez. The framework for the application of VAR is what is at fault.

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Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 22 Jun 2019 19:24

The problem with VAR, for me, is that unlike the other sports video is used in quite effectively football is a fluid game with relatively few stops in play compared to the actual action. Tennis, Cricket, and Rugby are all stop start games where a passage of play that might need review is book-ended by a stop in play that fits well with a review.

Football's laws are, at least in my opinion, a lot more subjective than those other sports too.

I just think, and always have, that the negative impacts of VAR outweigh the positive, and I think that's being proven to the be case at the moment.

Also, in regards to Cricket, DRS and the video umpire, it's also had a negative impact on umpires decision making. No balls are no longer called during normal play and umpires give or don't give decisions based on the safety net of the review system. It's largely been a success, but there's been plenty of criticism of it as well.

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Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 22 Jun 2019 19:29

BR0B0T
Hoop Blah
Hendo
Agreed, GDS works and it should work for offsides but for anything else it is wrong to use it.

It isn't like cricket or tennis where there are no real grey areas.


It can't work for offsides because offside is a subjective decision


it mostly isn't though...

apart from phase of play which mostly isn't


Mostly perhaps, but there have been plenty of debated off-side decisions where the main point of contention is whether a player is interfering with play too. Not every one of course, and not the majority either, but it's still a subjective decision that is part of the off-side law so it can't be labelled a factual decision.

One other point that isn't often looked at during off-side reviews, such a Lingards for England, is at what point in the process of making a pass does the decision get made. When it's a matter of split second timing and toes making a player on or off side the time it takes to complete the contact of a soft football could make all the difference. Pedantic yes, but if we're trying to make a 100% factual decision then that should be considered, shouldn't it?


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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 22 Jun 2019 20:22

One of my particular bugbears with it is, when a player MAY be offside and play continues, if a goal is scored it’s reviewed. If, however, the attack results in a corner from which a goal is scored, no review. Still offside, still wrong, but different result.

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Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 23 Jun 2019 07:36

Franchise FC One of my particular bugbears with it is, when a player MAY be offside and play continues, if a goal is scored it’s reviewed. If, however, the attack results in a corner from which a goal is scored, no review. Still offside, still wrong, but different result.


It also just opens up the chance for a goalkeeper or defender (or attacking player to be fair) to pick up and injury whilst trying to prevent an attack that shouldn't really be progressing.

Another edge case perhaps, but I've seen it a couple of times already, although it was also the case with the delayed flags for interfering with play over the last few seasons.

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Re: VAR

by Victor Meldrew » 23 Jun 2019 11:36

At the start of most seasons there are changes to the game.
The back pass rule
The seconds that a keeper can keep the ball
A tightening up on penalising shirt pulling in the area.

After a few weeks of Mike Dean applying the letter of the law things tend to die down so it will be interesting to see how things pan out with VAR.

As for the stoppage time I would have agreed with Hoops about other sports having natural breaks in play but as football injuries and set pieces now seem too take forever I am no longer convinced that football is the free-flowing sport that it is perceived to be.
I do like the idea of time and additional time being dealt with away from the referee and governed by a 4th official operating a stadium clock which shows the run down of time and is stopped when there is a break in play.
Often referees don't add on enough time-it appears to me more so in televised matches as if they are also concerned about TV schedules.

One further point on refs and it annoys me that some refs rather arrogantly "manage the game", in other words don't book anybody and that is usually in the big televised games, whereas others are more than happy to dish out cards which in turn affects suspensions going forward.
That old chestnut-consistency, or rather, lack of it.
VAR won't change that but love it or hate it VAR is here to stay.

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Re: VAR

by AthleticoSpizz » 23 Jun 2019 17:51

Becoming a bit of a p1ss take in the wimmins WC

Cameroons goal would’ve stood in any game without it.

If we are going to scrutinise EVERY goal and incident, it’ll be the death of the game......not even used when it was really necessary (the elbow into the face of Parris....and clearly a sending-off)....still.... the host nation have benefitted from it....I guess

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 23 Jun 2019 18:58

Surely something like GPS would be better for offside

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Re: VAR

by Platypuss » 23 Jun 2019 19:02

BR0B0T Surely something like GPS would be better for offside


How exactly?

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Re: VAR

by Zip » 23 Jun 2019 19:09

Agree with Vic. Football is very much stop and start these days. Just look at the amount of injury times in many games these days.
VAR will take time but surely it has to be a fairer way of ensuring the right decisions are made and thereby reducing decisions going the way of “bigger” teams.

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