VAR

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Brum Royal
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Re: VAR

by Brum Royal » 18 Feb 2020 09:17

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URZZZZ The Willian one has contact, but not sure there’s enough to do down which is another discussion for itself

The Maguire one wasn’t a red card, just like the Son one wasn’t a few weeks ago against Chelsea

Chelsea’s first has obvious contact, not sure if Fred pushed Azpilicueta in the first place though

Obviously Giroud’s was offside

Not sure VAR was too wrong today


We're all entitled to an opinion.
Mine seems to agree with both ex-Man Utd pundits that :
1. Challenge on Willian was a foul, but it was never checked on VAR so VAR can't be blamed or praised for that one
2. Maguire kick was clearly violent conduct and should have been a straight red. VAR most definitely wrong in that case (according to the three of us)

As for the others :
1. Fred pushed Azpilicueta first. Goal rightly disallowed, but a penalty should have been given. Don't think VAR got that right
2. Giroud was offside - no problem with that

So, as far as I can tell, VAR got one right out of three, so you're statement that 'Not sure VAR was too wrong' should have been 'VAR was two wrong'

All in my opinion, of course, but clearly supported by the commentator, co-commentator and the panel of pundits.


Yeah I'd agree with all that Franchise

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Re: VAR

by paultheroyal » 18 Feb 2020 10:09

VAR on off-sides will settle down. Stick to the procedure of the line - and if you are off you are off albeit knee, shoe whatever.

Maguire was clearly a red. I have no idea how they came to that non conclusion. Maguire admitted himself he was very worried and basically his "personality" made him get away with it. His explanation of trying to hold him up and stop him falling on him is total nonsense if you watch the footage.

Disallowed goal is a weird one. To me the first push was normal jostling and you would not expect a foul for that but momentum carried him through into the next player. Tough call.

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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 18 Feb 2020 10:33

paultheroyal VAR on off-sides will settle down. Stick to the procedure of the line - and if you are off you are off albeit knee, shoe whatever.

Maguire was clearly a red. I have no idea how they came to that non conclusion. Maguire admitted himself he was very worried and basically his "personality" made him get away with it. His explanation of trying to hold him up and stop him falling on him is total nonsense if you watch the footage.

Disallowed goal is a weird one. To me the first push was normal jostling and you would not expect a foul for that but momentum carried him through into the next player. Tough call.

For me the question SHOULD be whether an attacker making the same 'jostling' would get away with it. If not, then the same should apply to the defenders. If doesn't seem to, but it should.

Also, amazing how many times a player that shouldn't be on the pitch has a major contribution, oftentimes with a goal.

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Re: VAR

by URZZZZ » 18 Feb 2020 11:01

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URZZZZ The Willian one has contact, but not sure there’s enough to do down which is another discussion for itself

The Maguire one wasn’t a red card, just like the Son one wasn’t a few weeks ago against Chelsea

Chelsea’s first has obvious contact, not sure if Fred pushed Azpilicueta in the first place though

Obviously Giroud’s was offside

Not sure VAR was too wrong today


We're all entitled to an opinion.
Mine seems to agree with both ex-Man Utd pundits that :
1. Challenge on Willian was a foul, but it was never checked on VAR so VAR can't be blamed or praised for that one
2. Maguire kick was clearly violent conduct and should have been a straight red. VAR most definitely wrong in that case (according to the three of us)

As for the others :
1. Fred pushed Azpilicueta first. Goal rightly disallowed, but a penalty should have been given. Don't think VAR got that right
2. Giroud was offside - no problem with that

So, as far as I can tell, VAR got one right out of three, so you're statement that 'Not sure VAR was too wrong' should have been 'VAR was two wrong'

All in my opinion, of course, but clearly supported by the commentator, co-commentator and the panel of pundits.


I don’t think the push on Azpilicueta by Fred is enough to earn Chelsea a penalty themselves. Otherwise you’d end up giving 100s of penalties for tussles in the box

On reflection, the Maguire kick was worse than I thought and he probably should have gone

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 18 Feb 2020 11:05

paultheroyal VAR on off-sides will settle down. Stick to the procedure of the line - and if you are off you are off albeit knee, shoe whatever.

Maguire was clearly a red. I have no idea how they came to that non conclusion. Maguire admitted himself he was very worried and basically his "personality" made him get away with it. His explanation of trying to hold him up and stop him falling on him is total nonsense if you watch the footage.

Disallowed goal is a weird one. To me the first push was normal jostling and you would not expect a foul for that but momentum carried him through into the next player. Tough call.


Pretty much how I see it...can kind of see where Maguire is coming from.

Was Fred's push with his hands outstretched, flattening the player? No.

Hence can see why the decision was given as PTR says tough call.


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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 18 Feb 2020 11:07

URZZZZ
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URZZZZ The Willian one has contact, but not sure there’s enough to do down which is another discussion for itself

The Maguire one wasn’t a red card, just like the Son one wasn’t a few weeks ago against Chelsea

Chelsea’s first has obvious contact, not sure if Fred pushed Azpilicueta in the first place though

Obviously Giroud’s was offside

Not sure VAR was too wrong today


We're all entitled to an opinion.
Mine seems to agree with both ex-Man Utd pundits that :
1. Challenge on Willian was a foul, but it was never checked on VAR so VAR can't be blamed or praised for that one
2. Maguire kick was clearly violent conduct and should have been a straight red. VAR most definitely wrong in that case (according to the three of us)

As for the others :
1. Fred pushed Azpilicueta first. Goal rightly disallowed, but a penalty should have been given. Don't think VAR got that right
2. Giroud was offside - no problem with that

So, as far as I can tell, VAR got one right out of three, so you're statement that 'Not sure VAR was too wrong' should have been 'VAR was two wrong'

All in my opinion, of course, but clearly supported by the commentator, co-commentator and the panel of pundits.


I don’t think the push on Azpilicueta by Fred is enough to earn Chelsea a penalty themselves. Otherwise you’d end up giving 100s of penalties for tussles in the box

On reflection, the Maguire kick was worse than I thought and he probably should have gone


yep, just seen the Maguire kick again. I rem'd it as the leg he had held high going into the player but it's the other one coming up that makes contact

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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 18 Feb 2020 11:07

URZZZZ
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URZZZZ The Willian one has contact, but not sure there’s enough to do down which is another discussion for itself

The Maguire one wasn’t a red card, just like the Son one wasn’t a few weeks ago against Chelsea

Chelsea’s first has obvious contact, not sure if Fred pushed Azpilicueta in the first place though

Obviously Giroud’s was offside

Not sure VAR was too wrong today


We're all entitled to an opinion.
Mine seems to agree with both ex-Man Utd pundits that :
1. Challenge on Willian was a foul, but it was never checked on VAR so VAR can't be blamed or praised for that one
2. Maguire kick was clearly violent conduct and should have been a straight red. VAR most definitely wrong in that case (according to the three of us)

As for the others :
1. Fred pushed Azpilicueta first. Goal rightly disallowed, but a penalty should have been given. Don't think VAR got that right
2. Giroud was offside - no problem with that

So, as far as I can tell, VAR got one right out of three, so you're statement that 'Not sure VAR was too wrong' should have been 'VAR was two wrong'

All in my opinion, of course, but clearly supported by the commentator, co-commentator and the panel of pundits.


I don’t think the push on Azpilicueta by Fred is enough to earn Chelsea a penalty themselves. Otherwise you’d end up giving 100s of penalties for tussles in the box

On reflection, the Maguire kick was worse than I thought and he probably should have gone

We live in a world of football where 'contact' is deemed enough for most fouls to be given - in that case a push, however light, should always be given. As I've said elsewhere, if that had been an attacker with the push on Fred, it would've been given as a foul and that cannot be the right outcome to such massive inconsistency.

Indeed, the butterfly effect of Fred's push was to cause Azpilicueta to go into Williams (maybe he didn't need to raise his hands, though). On that basis the effect is significantly worse than the original foul but doesn't take away from the original infringement

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Re: VAR

by 6ft Kerplunk » 18 Feb 2020 11:13

BR0B0T yep, just seen the Maguire kick again. I rem'd it as the leg he had held high going into the player but it's the other one coming up that makes contact

Yeah, I can't see how deliberately putting your boot into an opponents nads isn't at least a yellow card.

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 18 Feb 2020 11:18

6ft Kerplunk
BR0B0T yep, just seen the Maguire kick again. I rem'd it as the leg he had held high going into the player but it's the other one coming up that makes contact

Yeah, I can't see how deliberately putting your boot into an opponents nads isn't at least a yellow card.


I was agreeing that he prolly should have been sent off.

From memory, I thought it was the leg he held high that made contact.

I could view that as protecting himself


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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 18 Feb 2020 11:27

BR0B0T
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BR0B0T yep, just seen the Maguire kick again. I rem'd it as the leg he had held high going into the player but it's the other one coming up that makes contact

Yeah, I can't see how deliberately putting your boot into an opponents nads isn't at least a yellow card.


I was agreeing that he prolly should have been sent off.

From memory, I thought it was the leg he held high that made contact.

I could view that as protecting himself

As you've now seen, he kicks out at Bat Shit Crazy - if that's not red then we're in for WWF (or whatever the initials are now) 'cos there's no holds (or kicks) barred.
How has the VAR not seen that ? That's the question. I can just about understand how Anthony Taylor misses it, but reviewing it on a screen :roll: :shock:

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Re: VAR

by Pepe the Horseman » 18 Feb 2020 14:28

Fred's push not a pen, but without it Azpawhatshisface doesn't knock into ya man there. No foul, goal stands.

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Re: VAR

by 6ft Kerplunk » 18 Feb 2020 16:26

BR0B0T
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BR0B0T yep, just seen the Maguire kick again. I rem'd it as the leg he had held high going into the player but it's the other one coming up that makes contact

Yeah, I can't see how deliberately putting your boot into an opponents nads isn't at least a yellow card.


I was agreeing that he prolly should have been sent off.

From memory, I thought it was the leg he held high that made contact.

I could view that as protecting himself


I was agreeing with you agreeing.

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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 18 Feb 2020 16:30

6ft Kerplunk
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6ft Kerplunk Yeah, I can't see how deliberately putting your boot into an opponents nads isn't at least a yellow card.


I was agreeing that he prolly should have been sent off.

From memory, I thought it was the leg he held high that made contact.

I could view that as protecting himself


I was agreeing with you agreeing.

I agree with your agreement of his agreeing


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Re: VAR

by Stranded » 19 Feb 2020 10:14

Arsene Wenger using his new role at FIFA to try and push a change to the offside rule following the introduction of VAR - think it has been mentioned on here as well as the best way forward.

Change would be that a player is onside if any part of his body that can score a goal is onside i.e. if their back foot is level with the defender they are on regardless if the rest of their body is offside under the current rule.

Should see a lot less goals chalked off by VAR as will be clearer that a player is definitely off.

IFAB to debate the change on the 29th February and if accepted likely to be in place for the Euros this summer.

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Re: VAR

by Hendo » 19 Feb 2020 10:20

Stranded Arsene Wenger using his new role at FIFA to try and push a change to the offside rule following the introduction of VAR - think it has been mentioned on here as well as the best way forward.

Change would be that a player is onside if any part of his body that can score a goal is onside i.e. if their back foot is level with the defender they are on regardless if the rest of their body is offside under the current rule.

Should see a lot less goals chalked off by VAR as will be clearer that a player is definitely off.

IFAB to debate the change on the 29th February and if accepted likely to be in place for the Euros this summer.


I guess this would be officially recognising the "daylight" theory that was talked about a few years ago.

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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 19 Feb 2020 10:47

Can't reconcile myself to the fact that the laws need changing because of VAR.

VAR should be there to support the laws as they stand. The simple answer is that if you can't tell within, say, 15 seconds, whether a player is offside, then the original decision stands. No need to change the bloody laws of the game

I'm getting seriously old and cantankerous :oops:

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Re: VAR

by John Madejski's Wallet » 19 Feb 2020 10:55

Franchise FC Can't reconcile myself to the fact that the laws need changing because of VAR.

VAR should be there to support the laws as they stand. The simple answer is that if you can't tell within, say, 15 seconds, whether a player is offside, then the original decision stands. No need to change the bloody laws of the game

I'm getting seriously old and cantankerous :oops:

^^ Agreed

Currently the situation is that we've introduced technology to help refs spot infractions of the rules, I can't do that very well, so they'll change the rules

Seems a really, really backward way of looking at it

Also, we'll still see ridiculous lines drawn on the pitch to see is a the stitching on the back of the heel is level with the stitching on the front of a defender's boot. And you will see onsides that would clearly be offside to anyone with any sense...… a striker at full speed happens to have the end of his trailing boot just level with the front of the leading boot of a defender. In freeze frame that striker could look a couple of yards offside
Last edited by John Madejski's Wallet on 19 Feb 2020 10:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VAR

by 6ft Kerplunk » 19 Feb 2020 10:56

That's going to come down to the same mm decisions being made just in a different place or am I missing something? They're still going to be drawing a line on a back foot (or other part of body) when the ball is played.

edit: wot JMW said

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 19 Feb 2020 10:57

Hendo
Stranded Arsene Wenger using his new role at FIFA to try and push a change to the offside rule following the introduction of VAR - think it has been mentioned on here as well as the best way forward.

Change would be that a player is onside if any part of his body that can score a goal is onside i.e. if their back foot is level with the defender they are on regardless if the rest of their body is offside under the current rule.

Should see a lot less goals chalked off by VAR as will be clearer that a player is definitely off.

IFAB to debate the change on the 29th February and if accepted likely to be in place for the Euros this summer.


I guess this would be officially recognising the "daylight" theory that was talked about a few years ago.


Interesting. Moves where an attacker is put clean through on goal have near disappeared from our game, this would surely reverse that trend, as defenders would be trying to guard attackers could essentially be behind them.

Would put a real premium on pacy defenders, too.

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Re: VAR

by Snowflake Royal » 19 Feb 2020 13:08

6ft Kerplunk That's going to come down to the same mm decisions being made just in a different place or am I missing something? They're still going to be drawing a line on a back foot (or other part of body) when the ball is played.

edit: wot JMW said

+1.

Let's just draw the line in a different place doesn't solve the problem that is drawing a line to measure a mm when your precision is many cms

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