Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

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Winston Biscuit
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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Winston Biscuit » 27 May 2021 08:07

URZZZZ De Gea clearly has been an excellent goalie for United but his attempts at saving penalties tonight were pretty pathetic. Almost like having a child in goal - just collapses every time and doesn’t seem to really get close. 36 consecutive penalties have now gone in against him


Some of his dives were weird. more flops than dives.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by NathStPaul » 27 May 2021 08:19

Winston Biscuit
URZZZZ De Gea clearly has been an excellent goalie for United but his attempts at saving penalties tonight were pretty pathetic. Almost like having a child in goal - just collapses every time and doesn’t seem to really get close. 36 consecutive penalties have now gone in against him


Some of his dives were weird. more flops than dives.

In his defence, they were all excellent penalties pretty much. I never expect goalkeepers to save a penalty, if the ball is hit hard enough in one direction or the other then it is very unlikely a goalkeeper will be able to do anything about it. What worried me more is what he was doing in the lead up to the penalty being taken. He was static, he looked scared, he didn't make himself big, he obviously hasn't learnt how to read a players run up, zero gamesmanship.

I did a very interesting module on penalty situations when I did my FA Level 2 goalkeeper course, there are methods that can be used to give yourself a much better chance of saving a penalty and all are quite basic. There has been a staggering lack of coaching on penalties with De Gea from what I saw last night, some of his efforts were quite frankly pathetic and it looked like someone who had never faced a penalty before.
Last edited by NathStPaul on 27 May 2021 08:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Hendo » 27 May 2021 08:53

Think it is pretty impressive that as many penalties hit the target as they did. Don't usually get to 22 without someone missing the target.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Zammo » 27 May 2021 09:07

Sad to see but De Gea is a shadow of his former self. Bit like watching Shilton trying to save those pens in Italia 90. Absolutely nowhere near them. BUT.....

this result wasn't De Gea's fault. As much as I like Ole, he got completely outcoached. I have no idea why he didn't freshen it up earlier in the game. Couple of things though, Luke Shaw is utter class and Pogpa is not.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Winston Biscuit » 27 May 2021 09:15

Zammo Sad to see but De Gea is a shadow of his former self. Bit like watching Shilton trying to save those pens in Italia 90. Absolutely nowhere near them.


was about to reference Shilton in 1990! comically woeful :lol:


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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Zammo » 27 May 2021 09:17

At least Shilts was full stretch trying to arch his arm round the shot/ball. De Gea ended up on the wrong side, on his knees :?: :!:

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Silver Fox » 27 May 2021 09:51

You'd have thought penalties would be right up United's street? Although I guess Fernandes can't take them all

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by NathStPaul » 27 May 2021 09:57

The outfield players scored all of their penalties, not sure what the point is you're trying to make?

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by URZZZZ » 27 May 2021 10:29

Royal Rother
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Maybe a bit OTT here but think he’s overrated to somewhat extent

He has capabilities to perform well but also a tendency to have too many stinkers, just like tonight


So it's not just me then. He should have been hauled off after that miss. He just did nothing. Really poor management tonight. And to not use your substitutes when you can clearly see your team flagging really was criminal.


I don’t think it is OTT at all. Rashford is massively over-rated.

When he burst on the scene he excited me and yes he’s still capable of scoring goals but he just gets worse every year. Sad to see.

Obviously an all round good guy but I wonder whether his good works / projects have changed his perspectives / priorities - he doesn’t look like he particularly enjoys football anymore.

Not sure that football is No 1 priority to him which is fair enough, he is doing great work outside of the game, but if he is going to fulfill his potential as a footballer he maybe needs to focus on the game more.


I don’t necessarily think there’s much to support what you’re saying in the last couple of paragraphs but by the same token can neither disprove it. I think he’s always had that stroppy streak in him, don’t think it’s a particularly new thing

Sure - I’ve always maintained he isn’t as good as people say. Young, English, from the academy, always factors that are popular with supporters. To suggest he shouldn’t be in the England squad IMO is over the top to some extent. 21 goals and 12 assist in 57 games is a decent record. Wouldn’t be in my England XI and I doubt Southgate’s but is still an option


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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Hendo » 27 May 2021 10:31

Rashford should 100% be in the the squad for the Euros, baffles me that people think otherwise. Who'd you rather have in there? Someone like Nathan Redmond? Give me a break.

Also, no matter what you think about him, this oxf*rd shit needs to stop - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57263805

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by URZZZZ » 27 May 2021 10:36

Hendo Rashford should 100% be in the the squad for the Euros, baffles me that people think otherwise. Who'd you rather have in there? Someone like Nathan Redmond? Give me a break.

Also, no matter what you think about him, this oxf*rd shit needs to stop - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57263805


Wait and see who he drops out the squad first :)

Yep, it’s unfortunate but every time someone like Tuanzebe, Fred came up to take a pen, I was thinking that exact article would appear. Seems like the attention has turned onto Rashford instead. Sad society we live in

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by BR0B0T » 27 May 2021 12:48

What subs does Ole bring on that would actually make a difference (in 90 mins)?

Rashford was poor and could/should have been subbed for James (not good enough) or Amad (a teenager) or brought Fred on earlier and moved Pogba to the left. McFred are never going to do anything to break down a low block

Pogba, Rashford, Bruno were all pretty poor. Valencia were shithouses playing shithouse tactics. Everyone behind the ball and toothless on the counter

Penalties, all bar one, were pretty decent. Their keeper got his hand to two, Utd's to one

I'd rather Ole keep the job as things have been much better than the previous three managers. Hopefully United can recruit well in the summer (which seems unlikely!).

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by BR0B0T » 27 May 2021 12:49

Rashford has been playing with an injury for a long time...he needs to rest (which he won't)

I can see why Ole left him on, he can play shit but do something that wins you the game.

This has been a criticism of Ole's style of relying on individual brilliance


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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by URZZZZ » 27 May 2021 13:15

BR0B0T What subs does Ole bring on that would actually make a difference (in 90 mins)?

Rashford was poor and could/should have been subbed for James (not good enough) or Amad (a teenager) or brought Fred on earlier and moved Pogba to the left. McFred are never going to do anything to break down a low block

Pogba, Rashford, Bruno were all pretty poor. Valencia were shithouses playing shithouse tactics. Everyone behind the ball and toothless on the counter

Penalties, all bar one, were pretty decent. Their keeper got his hand to two, Utd's to one

I'd rather Ole keep the job as things have been much better than the previous three managers. Hopefully United can recruit well in the summer (which seems unlikely!).


You forgot VDB!

Think you'll need a CB as a primary aim, followed by a decent CM, RW and even a natural striker to compete with Cavani (who's been an excellent signing)

I'd have brought Mata on who has a use against a team playing a low block but I gather he ain't particularly popular with United fans anymore and is slightly past it. Bringing James on was redundant, no where to utilise his pace which is his main asset

Think Ole has showed the most progress out of all four managers post Fergie year on year but would argue Van Gaal and Mourinho had more tangible success. 0 trophies in two and a half seasons (especially getting to the SF's 5 times in that time) and not winning anything is poor

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Franchise FC » 27 May 2021 16:44

Heard Adrian Chiles on 5Live this morning doing a piece on penalty shootouts and why English teams aren’t very good at them.

Adrian, I don’t know if you noticed, but last night wasn’t anything to do with failures from the spot. In fact, just the opposite. 21 successful kicks in a row must be some sort of record.
I have some sympathy for a goalkeeper having to take one. He can’t have, in his wildest dreams, though he would be in that position. His dreams would more likely have been about saving one or two but he had very little (if any) chance with any of them.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by 6ft Kerplunk » 27 May 2021 17:11

NathStPaul I did a very interesting module on penalty situations when I did my FA Level 2 goalkeeper course, there are methods that can be used to give yourself a much better chance of saving a penalty and all are quite basic.

Do you think penalty shoot outs require a different approach to a one off? You're never going to save a properly placed one so why not give yourself a split second more before moving. You're quite likely to get one badly hit/placed/straight down the middle out of the five that you can save by not moving until the ball is kicked.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Ascotexgunner » 27 May 2021 17:22

URZZZZ
BR0B0T What subs does Ole bring on that would actually make a difference (in 90 mins)?

Rashford was poor and could/should have been subbed for James (not good enough) or Amad (a teenager) or brought Fred on earlier and moved Pogba to the left. McFred are never going to do anything to break down a low block

Pogba, Rashford, Bruno were all pretty poor. Valencia were shithouses playing shithouse tactics. Everyone behind the ball and toothless on the counter

Penalties, all bar one, were pretty decent. Their keeper got his hand to two, Utd's to one

I'd rather Ole keep the job as things have been much better than the previous three managers. Hopefully United can recruit well in the summer (which seems unlikely!).


You forgot VDB!

Think you'll need a CB as a primary aim, followed by a decent CM, RW and even a natural striker to compete with Cavani (who's been an excellent signing)

I'd have brought Mata on who has a use against a team playing a low block but I gather he ain't particularly popular with United fans anymore and is slightly past it. Bringing James on was redundant, no where to utilise his pace which is his main asset

Think Ole has showed the most progress out of all four managers post Fergie year on year but would argue Van Gaal and Mourinho had more tangible success. 0 trophies in two and a half seasons (especially getting to the SF's 5 times in that time) and not winning anything is poor


Its pathetic the way he has been treated. 40 million quid for an amazing player who just hasn't been given a chance. Hope he goes to a club that appreciates him.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by BR0B0T » 27 May 2021 17:52

Ascotexgunner
URZZZZ
BR0B0T What subs does Ole bring on that would actually make a difference (in 90 mins)?

Rashford was poor and could/should have been subbed for James (not good enough) or Amad (a teenager) or brought Fred on earlier and moved Pogba to the left. McFred are never going to do anything to break down a low block

Pogba, Rashford, Bruno were all pretty poor. Valencia were shithouses playing shithouse tactics. Everyone behind the ball and toothless on the counter

Penalties, all bar one, were pretty decent. Their keeper got his hand to two, Utd's to one

I'd rather Ole keep the job as things have been much better than the previous three managers. Hopefully United can recruit well in the summer (which seems unlikely!).


You forgot VDB!

Think you'll need a CB as a primary aim, followed by a decent CM, RW and even a natural striker to compete with Cavani (who's been an excellent signing)

I'd have brought Mata on who has a use against a team playing a low block but I gather he ain't particularly popular with United fans anymore and is slightly past it. Bringing James on was redundant, no where to utilise his pace which is his main asset

Think Ole has showed the most progress out of all four managers post Fergie year on year but would argue Van Gaal and Mourinho had more tangible success. 0 trophies in two and a half seasons (especially getting to the SF's 5 times in that time) and not winning anything is poor


Its pathetic the way he has been treated. 40 million quid for an amazing player who just hasn't been given a chance. Hope he goes to a club that appreciates him.


Not sure wtf is going on there? Really seems like it was a decision to buy by the board rather than Ole

But no chance he's going to throw him on in a final with 20 mins to go. He should defo consider leaving

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by Ascotexgunner » 27 May 2021 20:21

BR0B0T
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URZZZZ
You forgot VDB!

Think you'll need a CB as a primary aim, followed by a decent CM, RW and even a natural striker to compete with Cavani (who's been an excellent signing)

I'd have brought Mata on who has a use against a team playing a low block but I gather he ain't particularly popular with United fans anymore and is slightly past it. Bringing James on was redundant, no where to utilise his pace which is his main asset

Think Ole has showed the most progress out of all four managers post Fergie year on year but would argue Van Gaal and Mourinho had more tangible success. 0 trophies in two and a half seasons (especially getting to the SF's 5 times in that time) and not winning anything is poor


Its pathetic the way he has been treated. 40 million quid for an amazing player who just hasn't been given a chance. Hope he goes to a club that appreciates him.


Not sure wtf is going on there? Really seems like it was a decision to buy by the board rather than Ole

But no chance he's going to throw him on in a final with 20 mins to go. He should defo consider leaving


If I was incharge of Spurs or Arsenal in particular, I would make an offer.

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Re: Champions League/Europa League 2020/21

by NathStPaul » 28 May 2021 08:46

6ft Kerplunk
NathStPaul I did a very interesting module on penalty situations when I did my FA Level 2 goalkeeper course, there are methods that can be used to give yourself a much better chance of saving a penalty and all are quite basic.

Do you think penalty shoot outs require a different approach to a one off? You're never going to save a properly placed one so why not give yourself a split second more before moving. You're quite likely to get one badly hit/placed/straight down the middle out of the five that you can save by not moving until the ball is kicked.

I don't think the goalkeeper should approach things any differently, I think they are definitely different for the kick taker though as there is far more pressure.

The goalkeeper has to come up with a routine that they can do before the kick is taken, half the battle is won or lost before the penalty kick happens. You have to try and read the players body language, see how confident they are. Will they maintain eye contact with you? Are they distracted by the penalty spot not being to their liking? etc. Do you then have the time to make life difficult for the player? Can you have a drink? Do up a shoelace? The biggest thing you can do as a keeper is move, you have the power to move up and down the line and move your body parts. If you look at De Gea he stood still and if anything, made himself small in the goal. He made no effort to distract or stay big, he had absolutely no confidence at all and the opposition penalty takers would have seen this.

De Gea forgot that there is absolutely no pressure on him at all. The goalkeeper will not save a good penalty, the distance between the spot and the goal dictates that. You have to go into the shootout with that in your mind which in turn relaxes your body and makes it far less stiff and nerve ridden. I would suggest he needs to see a sports psychologist to install this thought into his mind, he has obviously been badly affected by his lack of penalty saving ability previously. If you go into it defeated you will be defeated.

There are also terrible technique issues when it comes to the attempted save. He firstly has never leanrt to read a run up which is likely a training thing from when he was a young player. It is reasonably easy to read a run up and body shape before the ball is struck provided the player does a standard run up. The attempted saves he was then trying to make were even worse, he flops instead of dives and even if he were to get a touch on the ball he wouldn't save it due to the lack of force behind his dive. His complete lack of confidence in himself is his downfall and maybe it is too late for him to change it now.

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