Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

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YorkshireRoyal99
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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 03 Feb 2023 12:42

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Snowflake Royal Our record with high transfer fee or even wage players is really quite poor.


It is, which is why I can't understand why people are against certain players or just completely write them off.

The Jordan Hugill rumour is a classic example. A lot of people stating his record not being great as a reason not to sign him. Yes, whilst that's true, that's the pond we are fishing in and, whilst restrictions will make our lives a lot easier, that will still likely be the pond we continue to fish in with maybe a bit more scope to compete elsewhere. People suggesting we could "get better", but realistically are we? And even more so, do we want to be paying the money to go and get said better players?

We've tried high value, high pedigree players in recent history and it hasn't worked. I just think it's best not to write some players off before they've arrived, as they could be more beneficial for us than what they've been elsewhere.


I refer you to my previous comment about "bragging rights" - these are the same supporters who think the "size" of their club or the number of supporters they take to matches is important.

The old Steve Coppell mantra of trying to find players who have failed elsewhere and/or who have something to prove absolutely is the best policy for a club like us that's never going to compete purely on financial terms. That, plus a thriving CAT ONE academy that offers a genuine pathway to the first team.


And hopefully that will be the case. Don't get me wrong, I hope we can get some quality from the lower leagues and blood through the academy. I just think in the next season or two we will also need to add experience and have some continuity within the team.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2023 12:44

YorkshireRoyal99
Snowflake Royal Our record with high transfer fee or even wage players is really quite poor.


It is, which is why I can't understand why people are against certain players or just completely write them off.

The Jordan Hugill rumour is a classic example. A lot of people stating his record not being great as a reason not to sign him. Yes, whilst that's true, that's the pond we are fishing in and, whilst restrictions will make our lives a lot easier, that will still likely be the pond we continue to fish in with maybe a bit more scope to compete elsewhere. People suggesting we could "get better", but realistically are we? And even more so, do we want to be paying the money to go and get said better players?

We've tried high value, high pedigree players in recent history and it hasn't worked. I just think it's best not to write some players off before they've arrived, as they could be more beneficial for us than what they've been elsewhere.
not being expensive isn’t a reason to be happy to accept mediocrity.

The point is to find cheap potential, not established mediocrity or failed potential.

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Dirk Gently » 03 Feb 2023 13:19

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal Our record with high transfer fee or even wage players is really quite poor.


It is, which is why I can't understand why people are against certain players or just completely write them off.

The Jordan Hugill rumour is a classic example. A lot of people stating his record not being great as a reason not to sign him. Yes, whilst that's true, that's the pond we are fishing in and, whilst restrictions will make our lives a lot easier, that will still likely be the pond we continue to fish in with maybe a bit more scope to compete elsewhere. People suggesting we could "get better", but realistically are we? And even more so, do we want to be paying the money to go and get said better players?

We've tried high value, high pedigree players in recent history and it hasn't worked. I just think it's best not to write some players off before they've arrived, as they could be more beneficial for us than what they've been elsewhere.
not being expensive isn’t a reason to be happy to accept mediocrity.

The point is to find cheap potential, not established mediocrity or failed potential.


On the same point, not every signing has to be a world beater who will completely transform the team. As long as a signing is better than the player(s) they're replacing, and good/better value, they're worth bringing in. At our level you often need to improve in increments, and a player that's OK and can do a job for a couple of years isn't to be turned down if the cost is right. (I'm thinking John Salako, Peter Grant, maybe even Keith Scott here...)

Too many fans want a team of 11 big name, expensive players. They're supporting the wrong team if they want that here.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2023 13:29

Taking Dirks comments about Coppell's approach for a moment... how many of his signings were really failures elsewhere that we turned around?

Gunnarsson? - success at Watford
SHunt? - did pretty well at Brentford and presumably played there under Coppell
Sonko? - similar
Doyle? - did great at Cork
Long? - highly rated at Cork
Halford? - very well at Colchester, I think it was

I could list more, Kitson, Lita, Ki-Hyun, Fae (certainly failed when he got here though)

Owusu wasn’t very good, but I didn’t think he came as a failing player we could turn around more a stop gap to tide us over.



Hahnemann - wasn't making it at Fulham, keepers are a bit different as its very hard to play if you aren’t No 1. But that's 1 I guess...

Tbh I'm struggling to think of any other clear first team intended signings that fit.

Dean Morgan maybe?

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2023 13:35

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It is, which is why I can't understand why people are against certain players or just completely write them off.

The Jordan Hugill rumour is a classic example. A lot of people stating his record not being great as a reason not to sign him. Yes, whilst that's true, that's the pond we are fishing in and, whilst restrictions will make our lives a lot easier, that will still likely be the pond we continue to fish in with maybe a bit more scope to compete elsewhere. People suggesting we could "get better", but realistically are we? And even more so, do we want to be paying the money to go and get said better players?

We've tried high value, high pedigree players in recent history and it hasn't worked. I just think it's best not to write some players off before they've arrived, as they could be more beneficial for us than what they've been elsewhere.
not being expensive isn’t a reason to be happy to accept mediocrity.

The point is to find cheap potential, not established mediocrity or failed potential.


On the same point, not every signing has to be a world beater who will completely transform the team. As long as a signing is better than the player(s) they're replacing, and good/better value, they're worth bringing in. At our level you often need to improve in increments, and a player that's OK and can do a job for a couple of years isn't to be turned down if the cost is right. (I'm thinking John Salako, Peter Grant, maybe even Keith Scott here...)

Too many fans want a team of 11 big name, expensive players. They're supporting the wrong team if they want that here.

Obviously. But then the point is people didn’t think Hugill would.

And characterising them all as people who just want marquee signings while talking to me about not wanting him, who has been consistently been very vocally against big marquee signings feels a little disingenuous. And a unhelpfully and inaccurately broad brush. That simply isn't the motivation that I see on here and its certainly not mine. It maybe on twitter, but this isn't that swamp.


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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 03 Feb 2023 13:38

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Snowflake Royal Our record with high transfer fee or even wage players is really quite poor.


It is, which is why I can't understand why people are against certain players or just completely write them off.

The Jordan Hugill rumour is a classic example. A lot of people stating his record not being great as a reason not to sign him. Yes, whilst that's true, that's the pond we are fishing in and, whilst restrictions will make our lives a lot easier, that will still likely be the pond we continue to fish in with maybe a bit more scope to compete elsewhere. People suggesting we could "get better", but realistically are we? And even more so, do we want to be paying the money to go and get said better players?

We've tried high value, high pedigree players in recent history and it hasn't worked. I just think it's best not to write some players off before they've arrived, as they could be more beneficial for us than what they've been elsewhere.
not being expensive isn’t a reason to be happy to accept mediocrity.

The point is to find cheap potential, not established mediocrity or failed potential.


But that's far, far easier said than done. Accepting mediocrity might be what we have to do, especially in the short-term, as these mediocre players elsewhere might not be the same for us, they might turn out to be good players.

Many other clubs have built established sides based on that term of "mediocre" players. I'm thinking Millwall, Preston, QPR etc. I just get the feeling that's what a large portion of our signings will end up being. A few will be players that are released from other clubs for example.

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Dirk Gently » 03 Feb 2023 13:39

Snowflake Royal Taking Dirks comments about Coppell's approach for a moment... how many of his signings were really failures elsewhere that we turned around?

Gunnarsson? - success at Watford
SHunt? - did pretty well at Brentford and presumably played there under Coppell
Sonko? - similar
Doyle? - did great at Cork
Long? - highly rated at Cork
Halford? - very well at Colchester, I think it was

I could list more, Kitson, Lita, Ki-Hyun, Fae (certainly failed when he got here though)

Owusu wasn’t very good, but I didn’t think he came as a failing player we could turn around more a stop gap to tide us over.



Hahnemann - wasn't making it at Fulham, keepers are a bit different as its very hard to play if you aren’t No 1. But that's 1 I guess...

Tbh I'm struggling to think of any other clear first team intended signings that fit.

Dean Morgan maybe?


Don't take the word "failure" too literally - it can also mean players who've not progressed as they were expected to (or expected to themelves) and so now have something to prove.

I was particularly thinking of Sidwell and Harper - both products of the Arsenal academy who'd been told they had no long-term future there. Also John Swift, maybe - released by Chelsea's academy.

But also arguably SHunt & Ivar who'd had OK careers but not ever reached full potential, and I'd say Bryn falls into that category too.

The classic example that SC used to call out, though, was John Oster, who was under a real cloud at Sunderland after accidentally shooting a reserve team player with an air-rifle. Similar applies to Graham Stack.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2023 13:43

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It is, which is why I can't understand why people are against certain players or just completely write them off.

The Jordan Hugill rumour is a classic example. A lot of people stating his record not being great as a reason not to sign him. Yes, whilst that's true, that's the pond we are fishing in and, whilst restrictions will make our lives a lot easier, that will still likely be the pond we continue to fish in with maybe a bit more scope to compete elsewhere. People suggesting we could "get better", but realistically are we? And even more so, do we want to be paying the money to go and get said better players?

We've tried high value, high pedigree players in recent history and it hasn't worked. I just think it's best not to write some players off before they've arrived, as they could be more beneficial for us than what they've been elsewhere.
not being expensive isn’t a reason to be happy to accept mediocrity.

The point is to find cheap potential, not established mediocrity or failed potential.


But that's far, far easier said than done. Accepting mediocrity might be what we have to do, especially in the short-term, as these mediocre players elsewhere might not be the same for us, they might turn out to be good players.

Many other clubs have built established sides based on that term of "mediocre" players. I'm thinking Millwall, Preston, QPR etc. I just get the feeling that's what a large portion of our signings will end up being. A few will be players that are released from other clubs for example.

In fact it's bastard hard. And on a different day, maybe Hugill is the best signing we could manage. Although I'd still rather go for someone whose had one unimpressive spell or is untested at this level if possible.

But whilst we have Carroll, Meite, Joao, Long, Ince, Azeez and Ehib in the squad, it wasn’t that day. For me. And it has nothing to do with big names or fees.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Sutekh » 03 Feb 2023 13:47

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal not being expensive isn’t a reason to be happy to accept mediocrity.

The point is to find cheap potential, not established mediocrity or failed potential.


On the same point, not every signing has to be a world beater who will completely transform the team. As long as a signing is better than the player(s) they're replacing, and good/better value, they're worth bringing in. At our level you often need to improve in increments, and a player that's OK and can do a job for a couple of years isn't to be turned down if the cost is right. (I'm thinking John Salako, Peter Grant, maybe even Keith Scott here...)

Too many fans want a team of 11 big name, expensive players. They're supporting the wrong team if they want that here.

Obviously. But then the point is people didn’t think Hugill would.

And characterising them all as people who just want marquee signings while talking to me about not wanting him, who has been consistently been very vocally against big marquee signings feels a little disingenuous. And a unhelpfully and inaccurately broad brush. That simply isn't the motivation that I see on here and its certainly not mine. It maybe on twitter, but this isn't that swamp.


But would Hugill have improved the available striking options at Reading? Is he an improvement on Carroll - No, is he an improvement on Joao - probably not, a better work rate but not likely to produce that something out of nothing moment. I don’t think he’s better than Long either, other than he’s younger.

So overall think people were correct to “bin him off” as he neither improves what the club already has currently nor offers something different, like pace, and would therefore be no more than just an additional striking option which the club already has and be an extra body in the way of Clarke, Ehibhatiomhan and Tuma getting into the first team.


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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 03 Feb 2023 15:05

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On the same point, not every signing has to be a world beater who will completely transform the team. As long as a signing is better than the player(s) they're replacing, and good/better value, they're worth bringing in. At our level you often need to improve in increments, and a player that's OK and can do a job for a couple of years isn't to be turned down if the cost is right. (I'm thinking John Salako, Peter Grant, maybe even Keith Scott here...)

Too many fans want a team of 11 big name, expensive players. They're supporting the wrong team if they want that here.

Obviously. But then the point is people didn’t think Hugill would.

And characterising them all as people who just want marquee signings while talking to me about not wanting him, who has been consistently been very vocally against big marquee signings feels a little disingenuous. And a unhelpfully and inaccurately broad brush. That simply isn't the motivation that I see on here and its certainly not mine. It maybe on twitter, but this isn't that swamp.


But would Hugill have improved the available striking options at Reading? Is he an improvement on Carroll - No, is he an improvement on Joao - probably not, a better work rate but not likely to produce that something out of nothing moment. I don’t think he’s better than Long either, other than he’s younger.

So overall think people were correct to “bin him off” as he neither improves what the club already has currently nor offers something different, like pace, and would therefore be no more than just an additional striking option which the club already has and be an extra body in the way of Clarke, Ehibhatiomhan and Tuma getting into the first team.


But I think that he suits our style far better than what Joao does and would have cost significantly less as well than what Joao is. So yes, whilst Joao is overall the better player, that's probably not the case in our system. It's not like Hugill is absolutely cream of the crop or anything, but I think he'd have been another option that's better than Joao in our team and it's not like we are high on quality goalscorers at this point, so adding someone else who can chip in might be useful. Again, it's all about incrementally improving the squad.

I'm not sure whether he would have stopped any of the aforementioned players' pathways into the first team, simply because I don't think any of those are/were deemed ready this season at least. If Clarke can prove his worth at Forest Green, then he might be next season. By which point we'd have both Long and Meite out of contract and only Carroll and Hugill (assuming he signed) on our books, so it would have been ok, it's not like we are swamped with forwards.

FYI - I'm not disappointed we missed out on Hugill, but I wouldn't have been against it either.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Sutekh » 03 Feb 2023 16:38

YorkshireRoyal99
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Snowflake Royal Obviously. But then the point is people didn’t think Hugill would.

And characterising them all as people who just want marquee signings while talking to me about not wanting him, who has been consistently been very vocally against big marquee signings feels a little disingenuous. And a unhelpfully and inaccurately broad brush. That simply isn't the motivation that I see on here and its certainly not mine. It maybe on twitter, but this isn't that swamp.


But would Hugill have improved the available striking options at Reading? Is he an improvement on Carroll - No, is he an improvement on Joao - probably not, a better work rate but not likely to produce that something out of nothing moment. I don’t think he’s better than Long either, other than he’s younger.

So overall think people were correct to “bin him off” as he neither improves what the club already has currently nor offers something different, like pace, and would therefore be no more than just an additional striking option which the club already has and be an extra body in the way of Clarke, Ehibhatiomhan and Tuma getting into the first team.


But I think that he suits our style far better than what Joao does and would have cost significantly less as well than what Joao is. So yes, whilst Joao is overall the better player, that's probably not the case in our system. It's not like Hugill is absolutely cream of the crop or anything, but I think he'd have been another option that's better than Joao in our team and it's not like we are high on quality goalscorers at this point, so adding someone else who can chip in might be useful. Again, it's all about incrementally improving the squad.

I'm not sure whether he would have stopped any of the aforementioned players' pathways into the first team, simply because I don't think any of those are/were deemed ready this season at least. If Clarke can prove his worth at Forest Green, then he might be next season. By which point we'd have both Long and Meite out of contract and only Carroll and Hugill (assuming he signed) on our books, so it would have been ok, it's not like we are swamped with forwards.

FYI - I'm not disappointed we missed out on Hugill, but I wouldn't have been against it either.


The point is though that Hugill is a really target man type of player and Reading already have that and more in Andy Carroll. Therefore there is no real point in bringing exactly the same type of player unless Carroll was long term injured which is something the club have thankfully been able to avoid in his two stays so far.

Anyway on Valentine's Day we should be able to compare!

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Royal_jimmy » 27 Feb 2023 08:37

The only player I'll be very disappointed to lose is Meite if none of the out of contracts sign a new deal.

I think offer him a new 2 year contract on £14k a week.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by NathStPaul » 28 Feb 2023 11:10

Royal_jimmy The only player I'll be very disappointed to lose is Meite if none of the out of contracts sign a new deal.

I think offer him a new 2 year contract on £14k a week.

What do we do after he laughs in our faces?


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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Nameless » 28 Feb 2023 11:35

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Royal_jimmy The only player I'll be very disappointed to lose is Meite if none of the out of contracts sign a new deal.

I think offer him a new 2 year contract on £14k a week.

What do we do after he laughs in our faces?


Take the pictures of him signing the contract ?
Yak is always laughing and smiling, one of the nice things about him.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by NathStPaul » 28 Feb 2023 11:37

Can see him ending up somewhere like the MLS or Saudi League making an absolute fortune. No way he re-signs with us.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Nameless » 28 Feb 2023 13:15

NathStPaul Can see him ending up somewhere like the MLS or Saudi League making an absolute fortune. No way he re-signs with us.


I’m sure there will be clubs across the world fighting for the signature of a pretty unknown championship player.
None of us know what his options are but if the MLS or Saudi were amongst them then you’d think he’d have already signed up.
He’s as likely to stay here as he is to join Ronaldo….

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 28 Feb 2023 13:28

NathStPaul Can see him ending up somewhere like the MLS or Saudi League making an absolute fortune. No way he re-signs with us.


Probably not, think there is a fair chance he stays on with us, but if not I can see other Championship clubs being interested or possibly going back to France.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Stranded » 28 Feb 2023 14:16

Key factor in any footballer signing a new deal is their personal circumstances - are they happy and more importantly, are their family happy and settled. If they are and a deal is there to sign then a player may be tempted to sign it as opposed to taking a slightly more lucrative contract elsewhere in the country.

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by Hound » 28 Feb 2023 14:26

Nah move on. 3 goals in the last two years (16 starts, 20 subs) and he really doesn’t offer a lot else

Bizarrely he only has 6 league assists in his Reading career - 3 of which have come this year

We can do better, certainly at 14k per week

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Re: Summer 2023 Transfer Speculation

by tidus_mi2 » 28 Feb 2023 14:51

Hound Nah move on. 3 goals in the last two years (16 starts, 20 subs) and he really doesn’t offer a lot else

Bizarrely he only has 6 league assists in his Reading career - 3 of which have come this year

We can do better, certainly at 14k per week

I'm not convinced that's fair, he's had two very injury hit seasons, before which he has been fantastic at this level.

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