Points Deduction AGAIN

[One8Seven1*]

Anyone know what the current club debt is now? Bearing in mind we no longer own the stadium, land around the stadium, or training ground.

[Stranded]

Anyone know what the current club debt is now? Bearing in mind we no longer own the stadium, land around the stadium, or training ground.

If I'm reading the accounts right - the total debt stands at 98m - of which 83m is owed to the owners. This is actually down from 116m last year.

The club is also currently owed 23m, though 19m of that is classed as "amounts owed by group undertakings" so likely money lent to say the Womens team over the years (amongst others).

Again if I am reading it right, and if not am sure someone will correct me, but The Reading Football Club Limited is the full owner of:

Reading FC Community Trust
RFC Bearwood Ltd
Reading Women's Football Club Ltd.

In total those 3 companies lost 2 million, and I think that can all be offset to P&S calcs.

If correct, from that and covid we have 4.5m of losses we can write off from P&S meaning our 17.25m loss becomes a 12.75m loss - bringing us in just under the 13m threshold.

[Sutekh]

Anyone know what the current club debt is now? Bearing in mind we no longer own the stadium, land around the stadium, or training ground.

If I'm reading the accounts right - the total debt stands at 98m - of which 83m is owed to the owners. This is actually down from 116m last year.

The club is also currently owed 23m, though 19m of that is classed as "amounts owed by group undertakings" so likely money lent to say the Womens team over the years (amongst others).

Again if I am reading it right, and if not am sure someone will correct me, but The Reading Football Club Limited is the full owner of:

Reading FC Community Trust
RFC Bearwood Ltd
Reading Women's Football Club Ltd.

In total those 3 companies lost 2 million, and I think that can all be offset to P&S calcs.

If correct, from that and covid we have 4.5m of losses we can write off from P&S meaning our 17.25m loss becomes a 12.75m loss - bringing us in just under the 13m threshold.

Ultimately though if Mr Dai chose to write off the debt owed him then I presume the club could basically tell the FL what to do with their FFP restrictions?

Out of interest which company owns the SCL stadium now?

[Elm Park Kid]

Total debt is largely irrelevant.

[Mr Angry]

For P&S reasons, pretty much all of the above is wrong.

The target is 39m over 3 years (or 4 currently as 2 years of Covid treated as 1), however, due to the agreed decision, the first 2 periods of the current reporting period were capped at 13m per season once we accepted the punishment.

That means we could only lose 13m last season and meet the plan. We lost 17.3 but this is before P&S deductions - the club can deduct 2.5m as COVID relief plus costs of running the academy/womens team and a whole raft of other items.

So after the COVID relief, we had to find deductions of 1.8m, which should be more that achievable via those deductions - so if we have breached, it won't be by much - though in our situation, any breach however minor is likely to be major.

apols as I haven't really followed the detail of all this closely, but are you saying we may have breached FFP in our newly released accounts, and also the EFL are potentially looking to impose a points penalty for something in a previous season unrelated to that too?

Without seeing the calculation it is possible but given the deductions allowed include Womens Team costs (approx 1.2m), training ground upkeep (approx 300k) then with the COVID relief the academy costs for the year would need to be less than 300k for us to have breached, which is incredibly unlikely.

The only breach I can see, if it relates to the period over the past 2 years, is that we haven't met the wages aspect, which looking at the top line wage costs, also seems unlikely but may come down to semantics at the end of the day.

So we come back to the breaking news from nearly 3 weeks ago now that we are going to get a 6 point deduction.

Here is a wacky theory; someone in the EFL who knew we needed to lose less than £13M in our latest accounts was told we had lost £17.3M, so rings his chums in the Press and says we are defo getting hit with the 6 point deduction.....but, he didn't take into account the items that we can offset against that loss, offsets that makes the actual lose £12.75M, so under the £13M limit set by the EFL, and hey presto - no points deduction.

This would also explain why this story seems to have gone totally cold in the last week/10 days or so in the press.

I am not saying this IS what has happened, just that it MIGHT be what has happened.........

[Sutekh]

apols as I haven't really followed the detail of all this closely, but are you saying we may have breached FFP in our newly released accounts, and also the EFL are potentially looking to impose a points penalty for something in a previous season unrelated to that too?

Without seeing the calculation it is possible but given the deductions allowed include Womens Team costs (approx 1.2m), training ground upkeep (approx 300k) then with the COVID relief the academy costs for the year would need to be less than 300k for us to have breached, which is incredibly unlikely.

The only breach I can see, if it relates to the period over the past 2 years, is that we haven't met the wages aspect, which looking at the top line wage costs, also seems unlikely but may come down to semantics at the end of the day.

So we come back to the breaking news from nearly 3 weeks ago now that we are going to get a 6 point deduction.

Here is a wacky theory; someone in the EFL who knew we needed to lose less than £13M in our latest accounts was told we had lost £17.3M, so rings his chums in the Press and says we are defo getting hit with the 6 point deduction.....but, he didn't take into account the items that we can offset against that loss, offsets that makes the actual lose £12.75M, so under the £13M limit set by the EFL, and hey presto - no points deduction.

This would also explain why this story seems to have gone totally cold in the last week/10 days or so in the press.

I am not saying this IS what has happened, just that it MIGHT be what has happened.........

Who knows? It wouldn't surprise me if the FL still didn't know either!

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Anyone know what the current club debt is now? Bearing in mind we no longer own the stadium, land around the stadium, or training ground.

If I'm reading the accounts right - the total debt stands at 98m - of which 83m is owed to the owners. This is actually down from 116m last year.

The club is also currently owed 23m, though 19m of that is classed as "amounts owed by group undertakings" so likely money lent to say the Womens team over the years (amongst others).

Again if I am reading it right, and if not am sure someone will correct me, but The Reading Football Club Limited is the full owner of:

Reading FC Community Trust
RFC Bearwood Ltd
Reading Women's Football Club Ltd.

In total those 3 companies lost 2 million, and I think that can all be offset to P&S calcs.

If correct, from that and covid we have 4.5m of losses we can write off from P&S meaning our 17.25m loss becomes a 12.75m loss - bringing us in just under the 13m threshold.

Ultimately though if Mr Dai chose to write off the debt owed him then I presume the club could basically tell the FL what to do with their FFP restrictions?

Out of interest which company owns the SCL stadium now?

That's what the Coates family did with Stoke isn't it?

The company that owns the SCL stadium is one owned by Dai Yongge I'm sure, although don't know specifically which one. Not sure if it's the football club though.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

So - £5m of the latest loss in the club financials is down to player depreciation....assume Joao/Puscas mainly....this has no impact on day to day cashflow which banks ignore when lending to businesses

Why don't the EFL do the same?

[Winston Biscuit]

Skybet have put us back into the relegation betting. 8th favourite at 18/1

[tidus_mi2]

Skybet have put us back into the relegation betting. 8th favourite at 18/1

Good bet to take if you genuinely think we'll get a point deduction. Would think Sky might know something though.

[Hound]

So - £5m of the latest loss in the club financials is down to player depreciation....assume Joao/Puscas mainly....this has no impact on day to day cashflow which banks ignore when lending to businesses

Why don't the EFL do the same?

Yeah that’s how I read that figure - assume it’ll be the same this season but cleared off the books for next year

[Snowflake Royal]

We lost £95m in the last 3 seasons. Including 17.3m last season.

The P&S target is £39m over 3 seasons. £13m a season.

Even following the EFL plan and being under a transfer embargo will still missed our allowed losses by £4.3m. And that was only because we sold Olise - otherwise we would have missed them by £12.3m!

This is way we are probably still non-compliant this season and why the EFL is on our arse.

Accounts loss is not the same as FFP loss. FFP does not count lots of things like Academy, Women's team, major infrastructure etc.

So accounting for that, the £17m loss could be under the requirement. Academy is going to be £1m - £2m on its own.

[windermereROYAL]

Surely we`ve already been punished for the previous 3 season cycle?

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Surely we`ve already been punished for the previous 3 season cycle?

Yes - I think now the previous losses are re-set at £13m each year, meaning to stay within FFP on a rolling average we have to be inside £13m each year not to breach it again.

As said above, looking at what we can deduct from the £17m, ie academy, women's team, £2.5m covid adjustment we should be ok.....

[Winston Biscuit]

Skybet have put us back into the relegation betting. 8th favourite at 18/1

Good bet to take if you genuinely think we'll get a point deduction. Would think Sky might know something though.

They have removed us again. Missed my chance!

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Skybet have put us back into the relegation betting. 8th favourite at 18/1

Good bet to take if you genuinely think we'll get a point deduction. Would think Sky might know something though.

They have removed us again. Missed my chance!

I expect they've had a few backers on us since they offered odds again.

Interestingly Birmingham are not quoted either...I wonder what's going on with their investigation?

[Elm Park Kid]

Surely we`ve already been punished for the previous 3 season cycle?

Yes - I think now the previous losses are re-set at £13m each year, meaning to stay within FFP on a rolling average we have to be inside £13m each year not to breach it again.

As said above, looking at what we can deduct from the £17m, ie academy, women's team, £2.5m covid adjustment we should be ok.....

You have to think that 6 points was an extremely lax punishment. I could see why fans of other clubs (especially those relegated during that time) would be unhappy.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Surely we`ve already been punished for the previous 3 season cycle?

Yes - I think now the previous losses are re-set at £13m each year, meaning to stay within FFP on a rolling average we have to be inside £13m each year not to breach it again.

As said above, looking at what we can deduct from the £17m, ie academy, women's team, £2.5m covid adjustment we should be ok.....

You have to think that 6 points was an extremely lax punishment. I could see why fans of other clubs (especially those relegated during that time) would be unhappy.

Sheffield Wed got away with 6 after appeal...maybe set a precedent

[Franchise FC]

So - £5m of the latest loss in the club financials is down to player depreciation....assume Joao/Puscas mainly....this has no impact on day to day cashflow which banks ignore when lending to businesses

Why don't the EFL do the same?

Because you could spend a couple of hundred million, amortise over a number of years and thus have it excluded fromFFP altogether

[Stranded]

Surely we`ve already been punished for the previous 3 season cycle?

Yes - I think now the previous losses are re-set at £13m each year, meaning to stay within FFP on a rolling average we have to be inside £13m each year not to breach it again.

As said above, looking at what we can deduct from the £17m, ie academy, women's team, £2.5m covid adjustment we should be ok.....

You have to think that 6 points was an extremely lax punishment. I could see why fans of other clubs (especially those relegated during that time) would be unhappy.

But the punishment wasn't 6 points was it? It was 6 points then, with the threat of 6 more and massive restrictions on what could be spent on the playing staff which grossly impacted the club in terms of recruitment, leaving us with the Frankenstein's monster of a squad that we currently have.

So whilst the punishment, did not and still may not relegate us, it is hard to argue that the club haven't been punished fairly heavily.