January Outs

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: January Outs

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Feb 2019 19:50

Denver Royal
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Denver Royal Of course. If for no other reason, that you don't actually watch many games. So yes, believe me, I'm already bracing myself for it. :wink:

:roll: Oh yes, the I don't watch games so you're a better supporter myth. :roll:

Huh? I never questioned your support. Its quite possible you see some games I don't. I didn't see the Man Yoo game, for example. Us not watching some of the same games could potentially be one of the reasons of us seeing some players differently (which you had raised). And yes, there may be other reasons, too.

Then I apologise good sir... I get it a lot from the morons and I mistook your intent.

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Re: January Outs

by Zip » 01 Feb 2019 19:52

Snowflake Royal
Zip How many games do you go to in a season Ian? To be fair anyone who says you are not a true Reading supporter is a bit of an idiot.


Live matches... probably average about 12 a season since 95? During uni and our PL years I probably only managed 2-5 a season which brings it down a fair bit - plus Stam's first season when I was on boycott (LOLZ at my misfortune). But I did manage to see quite a few PL games on TV, or via Reading Player - there were a few seasons where you could watch the full 90 after the fact for every game I probably saw 30 - 35 a season between live and recorded for those two to three seasons.

Since we last got relegated and I've had a season ticket (barring Stam's first season) - probably 16/17/18 ish live, plus some TV and stream.

This season, the heart's not in it, especially since Clement went.. so I'm at about 5-6 live plus another 4-5ish streamed.

Don't claim to see every game or even most. But plenty enough. The travel and cost is just a killer. Getting to a game is about a 10 hour day, and £50-£60 on top of the ticket cost. Doing that just to watch use be shit and lose doesn't have a high appeal.


Seems fair enough to me.

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Re: January Outs

by Nameless » 01 Feb 2019 20:06

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal I've already said how I'd measure it.

Funny how you decide the majority just agrees with you.


I tend to use a more conventional measure of majority - there’s you saying he’s shit and everyone else disagreeing (with Hendo flip flopping depending on who posted last !)

Your idea that you can ‘measure’ positive influence of an individual with a nebulous concept of whether a defence (of which O’Shea has not usually been part of) looks less clueless than it did previously doesn’t really hold water. Specially if you refuse to accept the fact that the defensive record is actually better when O’Shea has played ....

I suggest you read more widely. It's certainly not just me. In fact it's far from my perception that the majority agree with you he's been ok.

I can hardly be the one faulted that the claim he's a positive influence is nebulous and unsupported. A claim entirely separate to performance when he plays btw. And based solely on his having played for a long time and in a successful Utd side plus wishful thinking (it seems to me)

Show me some evidence of his positive influence and I'll give it consideration. Asserting with nothing ain't good enough for me.


It is kind of logical that the definition of ‘majority’ in this instance needs to be based on views expressed on the thread !
I would have thought you would be all for that given it is measureable !
By all means extend your definition to ‘all Reading supporters’ but good luck measuring it.
For the record amongst the fans I know there isn’t a general view that O’Shea has been shit. One or two think he was an odd signing, a couple think he’s great when we’re playing a route 1 type side and most (ok the other 2) don’t think he stands out either way in an under performing squad.

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Re: January Outs

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Feb 2019 20:18

I don't think this thread is really capturing that many people's view on the subject.

Anyway. Bored now.

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Re: January Outs

by Hendo » 01 Feb 2019 22:26

Nameless
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Dressing up an unsustainable arguement in pseudo intellectual language makes it less likely to be accepted rather than more ! I would ask how on earth you expect anyone to measure a positive influence any way. It is entirely possible that O’Shea has been extremely positive but that has been countered by the extreme negativity of our captain and star player. That’s not O’Shea’s fault !
I don’t think anyone has suggested O’Shea deserves ‘credit’ for his sending off but compared to the red cards earned by Bacuna and Blackett it was pretty innocuous (it was a second yellow for a start which makes it one step down from a straight red). He was covering a missing player, his pace or lack of it is almost entirely beside the point.
There seems to be a very sensible , majority view that O’Shea has been kind of ok without being good and an outlying extremist view. The majority has it....

I've already said how I'd measure it.

Funny how you decide the majority just agrees with you.


I tend to use a more conventional measure of majority - there’s you saying he’s shit and everyone else disagreeing (with Hendo flip flopping depending on who posted last !)

Your idea that you can ‘measure’ positive influence of an individual with a nebulous concept of whether a defence (of which O’Shea has not usually been part of) looks less clueless than it did previously doesn’t really hold water. Specially if you refuse to accept the fact that the defensive record is actually better when O’Shea has played ....


Whoa whoa whoa, way to throw me under the bus! Please provide evidence of my flip-flopping!


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Re: January Outs

by Nameless » 01 Feb 2019 22:40

Snowflake Royal
Anyway. Bored now.


Serves you right for reading your own posts ..... :wink:

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Re: January Outs

by Denver Royal » 02 Feb 2019 00:28

Still can’t believe we got 4 mil for Bacuna? Ordinarily I’d think we had fleeced someone, but this is Warnock who is usually astute and knows a player.

Warnock is very much about work rate, consistency, attitude, and being a 90-min player. A few managers now have struggled to get the best out of him, Steve Bruce included. Maybe Warnock gets more out of him than one or two of our’s did?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 02 Feb 2019 01:04, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: January Outs

by AthleticoSpizz » 02 Feb 2019 00:40

Has Bacuna moved forward with us?
Why were Villa before us, keen to let him go?

Think Warnock might be looking to exploit his hot-headed passion in their relagation scrap?

So many questions...so much £

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Re: January Outs

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Feb 2019 04:08

Denver Royal Still can’t believe we got 4 mil for Bacuna? Ordinarily I’d think we had fleeced someone, but this is Warnock who is usually astute and knows a player.

Warnock is very much about work rate, consistency, attitude, and being a 90-min player. A few managers now have struggled to get the best out of him, Steve Bruce included. Maybe Warnock gets more out of him than one or two of our’s did?

Warnock astute? Isn't he renowned for buying endless strikers and being out of his depth in the PL?


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Re: January Outs

by Denver Royal » 02 Feb 2019 04:25

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Denver Royal Still can’t believe we got 4 mil for Bacuna? Ordinarily I’d think we had fleeced someone, but this is Warnock who is usually astute and knows a player.

Warnock is very much about work rate, consistency, attitude, and being a 90-min player. A few managers now have struggled to get the best out of him, Steve Bruce included. Maybe Warnock gets more out of him than one or two of our’s did?

Warnock astute? Isn't he renowned for buying endless strikers and being out of his depth in the PL?

Er, Bacuna is a mid and a (sometime) def. Put it this way, he's had more success as a manager than Clement. And, without being astute? Then all the more credit he is due anyway.

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Re: January Outs

by Pepe the Horseman » 02 Feb 2019 07:52

Nameless
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Anyway. Bored now.


Serves you right for reading your own posts ..... :wink:

lol

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Re: January Outs

by Jagermesiter1871 » 02 Feb 2019 11:02

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Jagermesiter1871 I guess it somewhat depends on his wages, but has Oshea really been a disappointment? He's impressed me on the occasions he's been called upon, and has looked fairly class.

He's played 7 games. Got injured in the warm up twice. Got himself sent off. Has no pace. Has had no measurable positive impact on anyone else.

He's been shit.


Maybe it's because I had rock bottom expectations for him but I've been pleasantly surprised. I know you've posted that the 3 clean sheets this year, all whilst he was playing, is a case of correlation not causation, but I disagree. I think he commanded the defence in these games.

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Re: January Outs

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Feb 2019 12:27

Jagermesiter1871
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Jagermesiter1871 I guess it somewhat depends on his wages, but has Oshea really been a disappointment? He's impressed me on the occasions he's been called upon, and has looked fairly class.

He's played 7 games. Got injured in the warm up twice. Got himself sent off. Has no pace. Has had no measurable positive impact on anyone else.

He's been shit.


Maybe it's because I had rock bottom expectations for him but I've been pleasantly surprised. I know you've posted that the 3 clean sheets this year, all whilst he was playing, is a case of correlation not causation, but I disagree. I think he commanded the defence in these games.

He's not been as bad as I thought and it's fair enough to look at the clean sheets positively.

But I look at those 7 appearances and think McIntyre or Osho could have had them... would that have left us any worse off?


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Re: January Outs

by Jagermesiter1871 » 02 Feb 2019 13:12

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal He's played 7 games. Got injured in the warm up twice. Got himself sent off. Has no pace. Has had no measurable positive impact on anyone else.

He's been shit.


Maybe it's because I had rock bottom expectations for him but I've been pleasantly surprised. I know you've posted that the 3 clean sheets this year, all whilst he was playing, is a case of correlation not causation, but I disagree. I think he commanded the defence in these games.

He's not been as bad as I thought and it's fair enough to look at the clean sheets positively.

But I look at those 7 appearances and think McIntyre or Osho could have had them... would that have left us any worse off?


..Very easily.

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Re: January Outs

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Feb 2019 13:19

Jagermesiter1871
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Maybe it's because I had rock bottom expectations for him but I've been pleasantly surprised. I know you've posted that the 3 clean sheets this year, all whilst he was playing, is a case of correlation not causation, but I disagree. I think he commanded the defence in these games.

He's not been as bad as I thought and it's fair enough to look at the clean sheets positively.

But I look at those 7 appearances and think McIntyre or Osho could have had them... would that have left us any worse off?


..Very easily.

Doubtful IMO given we're already in the relegation zone. Both played well in their only appearance as well. And bigger longer term benefits to them playing than O'Shea. We'll never know of course.

I'd rather see us struggling with Academy players than hiring the likes of O'Shea.

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Re: January Outs

by Lower West » 02 Feb 2019 20:09

AthleticoSpizz H
So many questions...so much £


Reading had to offload to adjust to meet FFP. Excess of midfielders. Sure Bacuna wasn't Gomes choice of player to go. But as someone wanted him the money talked.

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Re: January Outs

by Hound » 06 Feb 2019 16:03

sounds more like a dig at Clement than Gomes?

McNulty:

"It can be difficult when a change of manager comes in especially when the club maybe doesn’t have a certain philosophy of playing, whereas Hibs have a way of playing. They play attacking football.

"I don’t think they are going to bring in a manager who plays one up front and defends for 90 minutes and try to score a goal.

"It was a matter of picking the right club. I think Hibs have a style of playing that will suit me and that was big reason for me coming."

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Re: January Outs

by Crowbar6753 » 06 Feb 2019 18:50

Mannone off to the MLS ! that helps trim the goalkeeping department and should be nice wedge off of the wage bill as well i guess. A win win for both parties here and another job well done.
Good luck to Vito, it never really quite happened for him other than that penalty save :D

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Re: January Outs

by Snowflake Royal » 06 Feb 2019 20:34

Hound sounds more like a dig at Clement than Gomes?

McNulty:

"It can be difficult when a change of manager comes in especially when the club maybe doesn’t have a certain philosophy of playing, whereas Hibs have a way of playing. They play attacking football.

"I don’t think they are going to bring in a manager who plays one up front and defends for 90 minutes and try to score a goal.

"It was a matter of picking the right club. I think Hibs have a style of playing that will suit me and that was big reason for me coming."


Not sure I agree with that. I don;t think you could argue we did any defending under Clement, and we scored far more goals than than we have under Gomes. TBH it doesn't really sound that close to either manager to me.

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Re: January Outs

by Hound » 06 Feb 2019 21:57

Yep prob reading more into it than was intended, more likely not a dig at all

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