Rumour - Danny Loader

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URZZZZ
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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by URZZZZ » 17 May 2019 13:45

Hound
SCIAG Safe to say Sancho went for an unusually low fee due to his contract situation and the threat he posed to the dressing room harmony. Hudson-Odoi is apparently worth over £35m. Don't think either is a good guide price.

Jacob Murphy is a much better player than Loader. Similar with Maddison. They were young but had also proven themselves to be top-drawer Championship players. £10m plus made sense.

The thought of us rejecting a club record sale for someone who isn't in our strongest XI when our finances are in such a state is hard to entertain. Imagine a few at the club look at the £3m we turned down for Kuhl with misty eyes.


As mentioned, our finances are only in a state due to FFP. IT would be madness to sell someone on the cheap when we just need to get through this season

Jacob Murphy is also 24. I'd expect Loader to be just as good in to a lot better in 6 years time. Wolves wouldn't be buying him for next season

In saying that, a lot probably depends on what offers we have for our other players. If we get to 1st August and haven't been able to offload the deadwood and one of Swift, Moore, Barrow or Meite for a decent fee then the landscape changes


Jacob Murphy is abysmal. Just read up what West Brom fans think of him. It's telling that quite often they moved Gayle out to the wing to put HRK up front because Murphy is that bad. So I'd expect Loader to be a lot better in six years time than Murphy is now

We cannot sell Loader unless a ridiculous bid comes in. It's as simple as that. There's too much potential there. Barrow, Meite and Swift have to be shown the door before Loader. Possibly Moore depending on if we bring in another CB

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Hendo » 17 May 2019 13:57

URZZZZ
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SCIAG Safe to say Sancho went for an unusually low fee due to his contract situation and the threat he posed to the dressing room harmony. Hudson-Odoi is apparently worth over £35m. Don't think either is a good guide price.

Jacob Murphy is a much better player than Loader. Similar with Maddison. They were young but had also proven themselves to be top-drawer Championship players. £10m plus made sense.

The thought of us rejecting a club record sale for someone who isn't in our strongest XI when our finances are in such a state is hard to entertain. Imagine a few at the club look at the £3m we turned down for Kuhl with misty eyes.


As mentioned, our finances are only in a state due to FFP. IT would be madness to sell someone on the cheap when we just need to get through this season

Jacob Murphy is also 24. I'd expect Loader to be just as good in to a lot better in 6 years time. Wolves wouldn't be buying him for next season

In saying that, a lot probably depends on what offers we have for our other players. If we get to 1st August and haven't been able to offload the deadwood and one of Swift, Moore, Barrow or Meite for a decent fee then the landscape changes


Jacob Murphy is abysmal. Just read up what West Brom fans think of him. It's telling that quite often they moved Gayle out to the wing to put HRK up front because Murphy is that bad. So I'd expect Loader to be a lot better in six years time than Murphy is now

We cannot sell Loader unless a ridiculous bid comes in. It's as simple as that. There's too much potential there. Barrow, Meite and Swift have to be shown the door before Loader. Possibly Moore depending on if we bring in another CB


What if no one wants them?

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by RichTea94 » 17 May 2019 16:14

If they bid >£8 million, I'd begrudgingly sell.

As one of the 'have-not' clubs in the Championship without parachute payments and our owner's investment stymied by FFP, we have to rely on selling youth products.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Gunny Fishcake » 17 May 2019 16:28



Anybody but those scumbags

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Snowflake Royal » 17 May 2019 17:28

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Sutekh Have to say a Hector deal sounds very appealing. A shed load of cash down and back to Reading for a season on loan.


Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but why not sell him and loan him back?

Think I covered the reasons why not already personally, but to repeat:

Hector was an established first XI player and one of our best options in his position
Loader is a first team squad player and wouldn't be on virtual guaranteed starts, so a loan back doesn't really benefit Wolves unless we're required to play him which doesn't benefit us.

We'd be developing someone else's player at the detriment of our long term for not very good short term on pitch benefits.


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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by URZZZZ » 17 May 2019 17:34

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Sutekh Have to say a Hector deal sounds very appealing. A shed load of cash down and back to Reading for a season on loan.


Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but why not sell him and loan him back?

Think I covered the reasons why not already personally, but to repeat:

Hector was an established first XI player and one of our best options in his position
Loader is a first team squad player and wouldn't be on virtual guaranteed starts, so a loan back doesn't really benefit Wolves unless we're required to play him which doesn't benefit us.

We'd be developing someone else's player at the detriment of our long term for not very good short term on pitch benefits.


Technically that is the point of a loan though from a big team - the "smaller team" develops them so the bigger team can relish the benefits in the future in the form of a decent player/more money earned from selling the player. If everyone had that mindset, the young players would never get a chance in the first team picture. And it works both ways

Would a two year loan deal instead of one change your mind slightly? That way we reap the benefits more

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Victor Meldrew » 17 May 2019 17:36

As the player has only so far really got a good goal-scoring record in kids' football if we were to do a deal I would see it more as say something like £2 million up front plus add-ons for Premier League appearances, further transfers and any international caps.
In structuring things that way we get handy money now and if he doesn't make it we have had something.
If he succeeds we share in the success financially.

I agree with Ian that there seems no point in any loanback deal.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Hound » 17 May 2019 18:00

You know 2m rates him as half way between Dave Edwards and Leandro Bacuna?

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Snowflake Royal » 17 May 2019 18:47

URZZZZ
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Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but why not sell him and loan him back?

Think I covered the reasons why not already personally, but to repeat:

Hector was an established first XI player and one of our best options in his position
Loader is a first team squad player and wouldn't be on virtual guaranteed starts, so a loan back doesn't really benefit Wolves unless we're required to play him which doesn't benefit us.

We'd be developing someone else's player at the detriment of our long term for not very good short term on pitch benefits.


Technically that is the point of a loan though from a big team - the "smaller team" develops them so the bigger team can relish the benefits in the future in the form of a decent player/more money earned from selling the player. If everyone had that mindset, the young players would never get a chance in the first team picture. And it works both ways

Would a two year loan deal instead of one change your mind slightly? That way we reap the benefits more

I don't think you get the point.

Unless Loader clearly improves our first XI, which IMO he doesn't yet, he's a poor sale and back on loan prospect. The length of the loan doesn't matter. You're still doing all the work, for no long term benefit and not a lot of short term benefit outside the transfer fee.

Either keep him and hope he develops and his value increases, or cash in with a sale now and move on.

The point of loaning a player is to get a short term benefit for a player of a quality you otherwise couldn't afford. Loader's value is in potential, not current ability and so there's no value in a loan back.


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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Snowflake Royal » 17 May 2019 18:56

Hound You know 2m rates him as half way between Dave Edwards and Leandro Bacuna?

Yeah, bizarre ends of the scale going on here.

English youth International with Championship appearances and high potential has to put his starting price at at least £5m. I can't see us considering much less than that at all. At the same time, he is mostly unrealized potential, with 1 goal in about 15 and so anything over about £7m is bonkers and we'd pretty much have to take it immediately.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Crowbar6753 » 17 May 2019 19:30

We really need to be keeping hold of our youngsters and trying to build the club around our shining academy players. Loader is clearly going to be a star, he's still young and raw at the moment but we've all seen that there's a talented kid in there. He has great movement and the way he took that goal against Boro was class.
Sure, sell him for 5 mill now for quick cash, but if he can have a breakout season next year and scores 10 plus goals his price tag would be closer to 30 mill seeing as he's a young English wonder kid!!
We don't need the money, we just have to trim down the squad and FFP will be fine.

I say keep for at least another 18 months or so.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by muirinho » 17 May 2019 19:45

Crowbar6753 We really need to be keeping hold of our youngsters and trying to build the club around our shining academy players. Loader is clearly going to be a star, he's still young and raw at the moment but we've all seen that there's a talented kid in there. He has great movement and the way he took that goal against Boro was class.
Sure, sell him for 5 mill now for quick cash, but if he can have a breakout season next year and scores 10 plus goals his price tag would be closer to 30 mill seeing as he's a young English wonder kid!!
We don't need the money, we just have to trim down the squad and FFP will be fine.

I say keep for at least another 18 months or so.


Unfortunately we do need the money - because it's easier to sell the players we don't want to sell, than the ones we do.

Hope if we do sell, there's a large sell-on clause plus appearance fees etc etc. So we get something back.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Crowbar6753 » 17 May 2019 21:39

muirinho
Crowbar6753 We really need to be keeping hold of our youngsters and trying to build the club around our shining academy players. Loader is clearly going to be a star, he's still young and raw at the moment but we've all seen that there's a talented kid in there. He has great movement and the way he took that goal against Boro was class.
Sure, sell him for 5 mill now for quick cash, but if he can have a breakout season next year and scores 10 plus goals his price tag would be closer to 30 mill seeing as he's a young English wonder kid!!
We don't need the money, we just have to trim down the squad and FFP will be fine.

I say keep for at least another 18 months or so.


Unfortunately we do need the money - because it's easier to sell the players we don't want to sell, than the ones we do.

Hope if we do sell, there's a large sell-on clause plus appearance fees etc etc. So we get something back.


So i guess what i meant was that i don't want us to become a selling club, and the way we fended off the clubs hovering around "Liam Moore" i thought we were slowly progressing on this front.
If we trim the squad down and get rid of the dead wood and players no longer required such as McNulty and Meyler for small fees i'm sure we can fend off FFFP, and hopefully keep hold of the Loader's, Oliese's and Rinhomota's.


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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Snowflake Royal » 17 May 2019 22:22

Crowbar6753
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Crowbar6753 We really need to be keeping hold of our youngsters and trying to build the club around our shining academy players. Loader is clearly going to be a star, he's still young and raw at the moment but we've all seen that there's a talented kid in there. He has great movement and the way he took that goal against Boro was class.
Sure, sell him for 5 mill now for quick cash, but if he can have a breakout season next year and scores 10 plus goals his price tag would be closer to 30 mill seeing as he's a young English wonder kid!!
We don't need the money, we just have to trim down the squad and FFP will be fine.

I say keep for at least another 18 months or so.


Unfortunately we do need the money - because it's easier to sell the players we don't want to sell, than the ones we do.

Hope if we do sell, there's a large sell-on clause plus appearance fees etc etc. So we get something back.


So i guess what i meant was that i don't want us to become a selling club, and the way we fended off the clubs hovering around "Liam Moore" i thought we were slowly progressing on this front.
If we trim the squad down and get rid of the dead wood and players no longer required such as McNulty and Meyler for small fees i'm sure we can fend off FFFP, and hopefully keep hold of the Loader's, Oliese's and Rinhomota's.

Any club with a financial hole to plug is a selling club at the right price.

The thing is, our wage bill is about £30m and our income is about £18m. So we have to cut our wage bill by about a third. Getting small fees for McNulty and Meyler to shift them on ain't going to cut it. You're looking at getting rid of £200k a week's work of wages. That's 10 players on £20k a week. How many players do you think we're paying £20k a week or more? (obvious answer too many given a £30m wage bill comes to £577k a week) that's the best part of 29 players on £20k (I'm sure it includes academy, coaching staff and other staff too, but still).

Football finance is insane.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by URZZZZ » 17 May 2019 22:40

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Unfortunately we do need the money - because it's easier to sell the players we don't want to sell, than the ones we do.

Hope if we do sell, there's a large sell-on clause plus appearance fees etc etc. So we get something back.


So i guess what i meant was that i don't want us to become a selling club, and the way we fended off the clubs hovering around "Liam Moore" i thought we were slowly progressing on this front.
If we trim the squad down and get rid of the dead wood and players no longer required such as McNulty and Meyler for small fees i'm sure we can fend off FFFP, and hopefully keep hold of the Loader's, Oliese's and Rinhomota's.

Any club with a financial hole to plug is a selling club at the right price.

The thing is, our wage bill is about £30m and our income is about £18m. So we have to cut our wage bill by about a third. Getting small fees for McNulty and Meyler to shift them on ain't going to cut it. You're looking at getting rid of £200k a week's work of wages. That's 10 players on £20k a week. How many players do you think we're paying £20k a week or more? (obvious answer too many given a £30m wage bill comes to £577k a week) that's the best part of 29 players on £20k (I'm sure it includes academy, coaching staff and other staff too, but still).

Football finance is insane.


It’s completely unrelated to Loader and most of your point to be honest with the exception of your last point but I’ve always wondered why your big teams of the world (city, united) etc don’t help out the teams having financial difficulties. You read all the time of teams struggling to pay wages (like Bolton) so would it really harm a team like City to give them £1 million or something. Let’s be honest that is absolute peanuts to a team like City and could be gamechanging to teams lower down struggling financially. There’s probably an obvious reason but in my head it doesn’t really make sense

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by From Despair To Where? » 17 May 2019 23:28

Business just doesn't work like that. Has any big hitter in any industry gone round philanthropically throwing money at it's smaller competitors to stop them going to the wall because they can afford to?

They could do it through a more even distribution of TV money but they would rather be allowed to negotiate individual deals and cut everyone else out completely if they had half a chance.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by CountryRoyal » 18 May 2019 10:39

From Despair To Where? Business just doesn't work like that. Has any big hitter in any industry gone round philanthropically throwing money at it's smaller competitors to stop them going to the wall because they can afford to?

They could do it through a more even distribution of TV money but they would rather be allowed to negotiate individual deals and cut everyone else out completely if they had half a chance.


I feel like URZZZZ might have meant financial help with a caveat of future cooporation or something much like what countries do all the time. We loan loads of govt aid to less developed countries and also at times during disasters etc on the premise that we secure various future deals out of it... etc

So in that sense a Man City could say give Bolton a couple of mil and say, expect first refusal on any future player sales at market value for example. Not sure if that would be against any rules or relegations but that could make sense from a business perspective potentially.

I assume URZZZZ meant something like that rather than as you suggest just good old kind hearted no strings attached philanthropy, which is a little naive.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Victor Meldrew » 18 May 2019 12:03

Hound You know 2m rates him as half way between Dave Edwards and Leandro Bacuna?


And just a bit less than Spurs paid MK Dons for Delle Ali.
As I said in my post, if he makes it big we get loads more money, if he doesn't progress we have had £2 million.
Edwards and Bacuna are not players that we will ever get any more money for so aren't great examples.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Royal Rother » 18 May 2019 12:44

Even the idea of letting Loader go is madness to me unless we were to go bust if we didn’t.

These are the players we should be building the future of the club around.

Sick of seeing our unfinished article Academy players leave and become player of the season somewhere else, albeit at lower leagues. We spend 10 years developing them and then let them go elsewhere when they don’t immediately set the world alight when given early chances here.

It takes time for youngsters to become accustomed to 1st team football at whatever level. Some longer than others but at low wages they are worth persisting with. Some might say that the phrase above “albeit at lower leagues” is the key here but offloading / cashing in too early and signing more experienced players from the same lower leagues or unfinished articles from other clubs’ academies does not sit well with me.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Notts Royal » 18 May 2019 12:47

if It was a choose between Loader & Novakovich, I’d prefer us to give Novakovich game time next season.

Granted we’re going on videos here but he looks to be more of the complete forward...hold up play seems good, he’s very mobile & a decent finish. Less flashy but then maybe more suited to the Championship than Loader

Loader is probably valued more so we’d get more for him.

Just an opinion but I’d prefer to see 3-4 seasons of him than 1 brilliant season of Loader only for him to be sold next season

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