Jay Fulton

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Brogue » 10 Jul 2022 22:09

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blythspartan Can we potentially sign a player like Fulton on loan this season on the condition that we’ll sign them permanently next season? I was just wondering if we are allowed to agree loan signings on those terms this season? It would possibly make sense from a continuity standpoint, especially if the player is decent.


We aren’t allowed to make any commitments to payments at this stage.


You’ve changed your tune. Only a couple of weeks ago you were quoting me EFL documents saying we could.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Nameless » 10 Jul 2022 22:25

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blythspartan Can we potentially sign a player like Fulton on loan this season on the condition that we’ll sign them permanently next season? I was just wondering if we are allowed to agree loan signings on those terms this season? It would possibly make sense from a continuity standpoint, especially if the player is decent.


We aren’t allowed to make any commitments to payments at this stage.


No but we could ask for an option. We can't bind ourselves but can ask that we have first refusal or the right to match any bid.


Neither of those are very meaningful though. Wouldn’t do anything that wouldn’t be possible anyway, or easy to get around.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Nameless » 11 Jul 2022 11:54

Brogue
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blythspartan Can we potentially sign a player like Fulton on loan this season on the condition that we’ll sign them permanently next season? I was just wondering if we are allowed to agree loan signings on those terms this season? It would possibly make sense from a continuity standpoint, especially if the player is decent.


We aren’t allowed to make any commitments to payments at this stage.


You’ve changed your tune. Only a couple of weeks ago you were quoting me EFL documents saying we could.


Same tune.
There is nothing that says we can’t pay a transfer fee, subject to EFL approval
There is a clause that says we can’t make commitments to make future payments (because that would be a way of wriggling round restrictions)
So two different things really.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Jul 2022 12:13

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Nameless
We aren’t allowed to make any commitments to payments at this stage.


You’ve changed your tune. Only a couple of weeks ago you were quoting me EFL documents saying we could.


Same tune.
There is nothing that says we can’t pay a transfer fee, subject to EFL approval
There is a clause that says we can’t make commitments to make future payments (because that would be a way of wriggling round restrictions)
So two different things really.


Bowen himself has said we can't pay transfer fees.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jul 2022 12:27

YorkshireRoyal99
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You’ve changed your tune. Only a couple of weeks ago you were quoting me EFL documents saying we could.


Same tune.
There is nothing that says we can’t pay a transfer fee, subject to EFL approval
There is a clause that says we can’t make commitments to make future payments (because that would be a way of wriggling round restrictions)
So two different things really.


Bowen himself has said we can't pay transfer fees.

Probably because we haven't sold anyone or got shot of Moore.

It's about how much wiggle room we have in the finances. Without either / both of them we have no wiggle room.

There's two different things. Being barred from paying transfer fees and not having enough money to pay transfer fees. We are in the latter, not the former.


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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Jul 2022 12:35

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Nameless
Same tune.
There is nothing that says we can’t pay a transfer fee, subject to EFL approval
There is a clause that says we can’t make commitments to make future payments (because that would be a way of wriggling round restrictions)
So two different things really.


Bowen himself has said we can't pay transfer fees.

Probably because we haven't sold anyone or got shot of Moore.

It's about how much wiggle room we have in the finances. Without either / both of them we have no wiggle room.

There's two different things. Being barred from paying transfer fees and not having enough money to pay transfer fees. We are in the latter, not the former.


Quoting Bowen here:

"Secondly, from a financial point of view, it doesn't matter if we get £50million for him, we can't use that money this year (because of the financial restrictions). We can use his wages because that comes off the wage bill but we can’t use the money. With that said, Mr Dai (the owner) is not in the habit of accepting money for his players. He considers them almost like his babies. They are here to stay and he wants them to stay.

"Football changes week in week out, but at the moment I’d like to think that there is no chance of Lucas Joao going anywhere because the owner wants him to stay, I want him to stay, the fans want him to stay. And even if it was an extraordinary amount of money, I don’t know how we could use it to the best effect."

Potentially slightly contradicting depending how you see it, the first line or two says we can't use that money this year bar the wages but he then mentions in his last sentence "I don't know how we could use it to the best effect", which may imply something different. Currently, I think I'm going off the basis of we just can't spend any money on transfer fees this year, but that could be open to change.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jul 2022 12:38

The main thing I take from that is that Dai is still a oxf*rd moron.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Jul 2022 12:46

To be fair, I'm not adverse to us wanting to keep hold of our best players, it's just the way we did it by grossly overpaying for so many players who just simply weren't that good is what has killed us really. £5m and £15k a week (estimates) for Joao was good business, but then about £10.5-11m and £15k a week each for Puscas and Ejaria? Moore £30k a week? Those are just bad decisions.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jul 2022 18:32

Refusing to sell to recover funds when you're in a financial hole is just idiocy.

Selling one of your best players for multi-millions each season is the only really viable way for us to try and be vaguely competitive on wages without cheating and getting docked points.

Clearly, from that, Dai doesn’t seem to have learnt a lesson. Not at all surprised.


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Re: Jay Fulton

by JedMaxwell » 11 Jul 2022 21:24

That strikes me as an attempt at spin from Bowen, trying to give the impression Mr Dai is a bit like a fan in the way he sees players. Whether that's true is a different matter but I get the impression he's using this as a chance to try and shape our opinions of the owner.

They may see it as pointless selling when we can't use the money to buy other players, and the better free agents will probably want more than we'd be able to offer by divvying up the spare wages.

Incidentally I think Fulton is a very decent player at this level but obviously we're in no position now to take him on. Used to be exactly the sort of player we could attract as well.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Wycombe Royal » 12 Jul 2022 08:45

Snowflake Royal Refusing to sell to recover funds when you're in a financial hole is just idiocy.

Selling one of your best players for multi-millions each season is the only really viable way for us to try and be vaguely competitive on wages without cheating and getting docked points.

Clearly, from that, Dai doesn’t seem to have learnt a lesson. Not at all surprised.

I'm not sure you are fully understanding the situation (although I am sure that you fully believe that you are right and everyone else's opinions are wrong)...

If we sell Joao we may get £5m for him and the wages off the books. However we then don't have a main striker and can't use any (or only a very little) of the £5m to replace him. All we can use is his freed up wages and hope there is someone available for free who is good enough. This is because of the business plan and rules from the EFL we are working under. Therefore it does not make sense to sell him at this time.

Dai stills sounds like a crackpot, but what Bowen says does make some sense.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Jul 2022 09:17

Snowflake Royal Refusing to sell to recover funds when you're in a financial hole is just idiocy.

Selling one of your best players for multi-millions each season is the only really viable way for us to try and be vaguely competitive on wages without cheating and getting docked points.

Clearly, from that, Dai doesn’t seem to have learnt a lesson. Not at all surprised.


To be fair, if we aren't in a position to reinvest even a small amount of any funds received, I'd rather we were to keep hold of our best players under these circumstances, unless we really had to sell to comply with P&S/FFP regulations for this season.

Ordinarily, I would agree, but given the difficulty in bringing players in, I'd just keep Joao for another season and have a better chance of surviving given the goals he offers, rather than selling for a relatively low amount of money and likely end up with someone not as good.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Hound » 12 Jul 2022 10:02

Would say it’s far from out of the question Joao would re-sign next year, if we stay up

He’ll be touching 30 at the start of next year, and we’d likely be able to offer him a decent 2 year deal


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Re: Jay Fulton

by Stranded » 12 Jul 2022 10:13

Hound Would say it’s far from out of the question Joao would re-sign next year, if we stay up

He’ll be touching 30 at the start of next year, and we’d likely be able to offer him a decent 2 year deal


Key will be when we could offer him a deal - if we are able to towards the end of the year then I think it's possible but if we get to Jan then he could sign a pre-deal with a European club - he might fancy a move back to Portugal for example.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Jul 2022 12:37

YorkshireRoyal99
Snowflake Royal Refusing to sell to recover funds when you're in a financial hole is just idiocy.

Selling one of your best players for multi-millions each season is the only really viable way for us to try and be vaguely competitive on wages without cheating and getting docked points.

Clearly, from that, Dai doesn’t seem to have learnt a lesson. Not at all surprised.


To be fair, if we aren't in a position to reinvest even a small amount of any funds received, I'd rather we were to keep hold of our best players under these circumstances, unless we really had to sell to comply with P&S/FFP regulations for this season.

Ordinarily, I would agree, but given the difficulty in bringing players in, I'd just keep Joao for another season and have a better chance of surviving given the goals he offers, rather than selling for a relatively low amount of money and likely end up with someone not as good.

We can't reinvest because of how much we've overspent. The sooner we balance the books the sooner we can start spending (reasonably)

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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Jul 2022 12:41

Snowflake Royal
YorkshireRoyal99
Snowflake Royal Refusing to sell to recover funds when you're in a financial hole is just idiocy.

Selling one of your best players for multi-millions each season is the only really viable way for us to try and be vaguely competitive on wages without cheating and getting docked points.

Clearly, from that, Dai doesn’t seem to have learnt a lesson. Not at all surprised.


To be fair, if we aren't in a position to reinvest even a small amount of any funds received, I'd rather we were to keep hold of our best players under these circumstances, unless we really had to sell to comply with P&S/FFP regulations for this season.

Ordinarily, I would agree, but given the difficulty in bringing players in, I'd just keep Joao for another season and have a better chance of surviving given the goals he offers, rather than selling for a relatively low amount of money and likely end up with someone not as good.

We can't reinvest because of how much we've overspent. The sooner we balance the books the sooner we can start spending (reasonably)


I'm not disagreeing with that, but just this season isn't the season to be doing that. We've agreed to a business plan that should help us control our wages and losses more and stand us in good stead for the next cycle of P&S/FFP, if we want to be selling players, next season is when we should be looking to do it ideally, especially our best players anyway. Players like Puscas who are deemed surplus to requirements and can free up a significant chunk of the wages for this year can be sold and then replaced with a free/loan signing, no issue with that.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Nameless » 12 Jul 2022 12:43

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To be fair, if we aren't in a position to reinvest even a small amount of any funds received, I'd rather we were to keep hold of our best players under these circumstances, unless we really had to sell to comply with P&S/FFP regulations for this season.

Ordinarily, I would agree, but given the difficulty in bringing players in, I'd just keep Joao for another season and have a better chance of surviving given the goals he offers, rather than selling for a relatively low amount of money and likely end up with someone not as good.

We can't reinvest because of how much we've overspent. The sooner we balance the books the sooner we can start spending (reasonably)


I'm not disagreeing with that, but just this season isn't the season to be doing that. We've agreed to a business plan that should help us control our wages and losses more and stand us in good stead for the next cycle of P&S/FFP, if we want to be selling players, next season is when we should be looking to do it ideally, especially our best players anyway. Players like Puscas who are deemed surplus to requirements and can free up a significant chunk of the wages for this year can be sold and then replaced with a free/loan signing, no issue with that.


If our business plan relied on us selling Joao for £50 million then it’s no business plan !
If it relied on us selling him for £5 million we would be actively looking to find a buyer.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Jul 2022 13:28

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Snowflake Royal We can't reinvest because of how much we've overspent. The sooner we balance the books the sooner we can start spending (reasonably)


I'm not disagreeing with that, but just this season isn't the season to be doing that. We've agreed to a business plan that should help us control our wages and losses more and stand us in good stead for the next cycle of P&S/FFP, if we want to be selling players, next season is when we should be looking to do it ideally, especially our best players anyway. Players like Puscas who are deemed surplus to requirements and can free up a significant chunk of the wages for this year can be sold and then replaced with a free/loan signing, no issue with that.


If our business plan relied on us selling Joao for £50 million then it’s no business plan !
If it relied on us selling him for £5 million we would be actively looking to find a buyer.


There's nothing to suggest that it relies on us to sell anyone for anything at the moment.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by Nameless » 12 Jul 2022 14:02

YorkshireRoyal99
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YorkshireRoyal99
I'm not disagreeing with that, but just this season isn't the season to be doing that. We've agreed to a business plan that should help us control our wages and losses more and stand us in good stead for the next cycle of P&S/FFP, if we want to be selling players, next season is when we should be looking to do it ideally, especially our best players anyway. Players like Puscas who are deemed surplus to requirements and can free up a significant chunk of the wages for this year can be sold and then replaced with a free/loan signing, no issue with that.


If our business plan relied on us selling Joao for £50 million then it’s no business plan !
If it relied on us selling him for £5 million we would be actively looking to find a buyer.


There's nothing to suggest that it relies on us to sell anyone for anything at the moment.


If it did then we’d be selling....
If it did and the owner was blocking deals then we’d be seeing resignations....
Doesn’t mean there aren’t sensible arguements for selling someone, but we’d not get good value on any sales.

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Re: Jay Fulton

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Jul 2022 14:05

Nameless
YorkshireRoyal99
Nameless
If our business plan relied on us selling Joao for £50 million then it’s no business plan !
If it relied on us selling him for £5 million we would be actively looking to find a buyer.


There's nothing to suggest that it relies on us to sell anyone for anything at the moment.


If it did then we’d be selling....
If it did and the owner was blocking deals then we’d be seeing resignations....
Doesn’t mean there aren’t sensible arguements for selling someone, but we’d not get good value on any sales.


Yeah I know that's what I'm saying.

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