How we stack up against the opposition in terms of signings

[Hoop Blah]

Coppell has said that he sees Kebe as a right winger/midfielder and admitted himself that he didn't think we'd have a problem at the start of the season in that area as he believed we were "well covered". A mistake which i'm sure he as much as anyone is now well aware of.

It's a bit worrying that Kebe see's himself as more of a centre forward or left winger though. Especially when you consider that Coppell hasn't seen the lad play.

What gets me about the right wing situation is that they said in August that they didn't know how long it was going to take Little to come back and that in the last week they were about to look for another option. It then went all quiet despite the fact that they were trying to get Soel out the door at the same time.

Its just my opinion of course but I just don't quite see the clamour for Routledge. He has done nothing of note in the 3 years since he left Palace and 3 different managers have taken a look at him and none of them have really been impressed enough to include as a first team fixture in the Premiership.

I'd agree that Routledge hasn't exaclty ripped up trees since he left Palace BUT he's been behind some good players at his clubs, and some poor ones too, but his untapped potential is surely the kind of market we have to operate in. We can't afford to be buying players that are everyone elses first choice and I've no doubt in my mind that Routledge would've been a better option on our right wing than some of the performances we've seen this season.

He's not top notch, but he's be an improvement on having to play Doyle, Rosenior, Fae or Hunt out of position and weakening the side elsewhere. Hell, he'd even be an improvement on a fit Oster from what I've seen of the two.

[Vision]

It's a bit worrying that Kebe see's himself as more of a centre forward or left winger though. Especially when you consider that Coppell hasn't seen the lad play.

What gets me about the right wing situation is that they said in August that they didn't know how long it was going to take Little to come back and that in the last week they were about to look for another option. It then went all quiet despite the fact that they were trying to get Soel out the door at the same time.

To be fair i'm not sure anyone knew in August exactly how long Little would be out for. it was a short while after that they agreed to the take the surgical route which has written him off since. Also I doubt if anyone thought Oster would miss virtually the whole period with 2 seperate injuries either. Obviously its proved to be a mistake which Coppell himself has admitted.

I'd agree that Routledge hasn't exaclty ripped up trees since he left Palace BUT he's been behind some good players at his clubs, and some poor ones too, but his untapped potential is surely the kind of market we have to operate in. We can't afford to be buying players that are everyone elses first choice and I've no doubt in my mind that Routledge would've been a better option on our right wing than some of the performances we've seen this season.

He's not top notch, but he's be an improvement on having to play Doyle, Rosenior, Fae or Hunt out of position and weakening the side elsewhere. Hell, he'd even be an improvement on a fit Oster from what I've seen of the two.

For me its precisely because Routledge would appear on the surface to fit every criteria we have and yet we are not in the market for him that suggests (to me at least ) that Coppell sees or knows something about him that puts him off.

One of the things i find frustrating about Coppell is that if he tries something and it doesn't work immediately then he tends to be permanently put off from trying it again. Fae has played just 1 game at right midfield to my recollection yet he doesn't appear to be considered for this position due to this one game despite the fact that he first came to our attention playing in exactly this position for his country. I also don't believe that Doyle or Hunt have performed badly at all in the position when asked to play there. Of course anyone that plays there will always suffer from comparison to the "Greatest Player Ever to Wear The Shirt" but i dont think its been as serious a problem as finding a central midfield partner for Harper has been.

[Hoop Blah]

To be fair i'm not sure anyone knew in August exactly how long Little would be out for. it was a short while after that they agreed to the take the surgical route which has written him off since. Also I doubt if anyone thought Oster would miss virtually the whole period with 2 seperate injuries either. Obviously its proved to be a mistake which Coppell himself has admitted.

It was an ilconceived gamble going into a 4 month period with one fit recognised right midfielder though. Thats what I find so baffling. Little had been injured for the best part of 4 or 5 months already, and a history of failing to shrug of injuries. We then sold our '2nd choice' winger and left ourselves with Oster (a player that Coppell hardly ever plays even when fit) and a right back we'd just swapped for our winger.

For me its precisely because Routledge would appear on the surface to fit every criteria we have and yet we are not in the market for him that suggests (to me at least ) that Coppell sees or knows something about him that puts him off.

Totally agree. We don't know a lot about what goes behind the scenes with players, but Coppell seems not to shy away from players with supposed problems in the past, and Routledge just appears to tick a lot of our boxes from the outside.

One of the things i find frustrating about Coppell is that if he tries something and it doesn't work immediately then he tends to be permanently put off from trying it again. Fae has played just 1 game at right midfield to my recollection yet he doesn't appear to be considered for this position due to this one game despite the fact that he first came to our attention playing in exactly this position for his country. I also don't believe that Doyle or Hunt have performed badly at all in the position when asked to play there. Of course anyone that plays there will always suffer from comparison to the "Greatest Player Ever to Wear The Shirt" but i dont think its been as serious a problem as finding a central midfield partner for Harper has been.

I think Doyle and Hunt have done fantastic jobs for the team when they've have to play on the right. The problem for me is that it means we're papering over the cracks and weakening other areas of the side by playing an out of form Convey, a want away and untrusted Lita or poor old out of his depth Shane Long.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

Coppell has said that he sees Kebe as a right winger/midfielder and admitted himself that he didn't think we'd have a problem at the start of the season in that area as he believed we were "well covered". A mistake which i'm sure he as much as anyone is now well aware of.

It's a bit worrying that Kebe see's himself as more of a centre forward or left winger though. Especially when you consider that Coppell hasn't seen the lad play.

What gets me about the right wing situation is that they said in August that they didn't know how long it was going to take Little to come back and that in the last week they were about to look for another option. It then went all quiet despite the fact that they were trying to get Soel out the door at the same time.

Its just my opinion of course but I just don't quite see the clamour for Routledge. He has done nothing of note in the 3 years since he left Palace and 3 different managers have taken a look at him and none of them have really been impressed enough to include as a first team fixture in the Premiership.

I'd agree that Routledge hasn't exaclty ripped up trees since he left Palace BUT he's been behind some good players at his clubs, and some poor ones too, but his untapped potential is surely the kind of market we have to operate in. We can't afford to be buying players that are everyone elses first choice and I've no doubt in my mind that Routledge would've been a better option on our right wing than some of the performances we've seen this season.

He's not top notch, but he's be an improvement on having to play Doyle, Rosenior, Fae or Hunt out of position and weakening the side elsewhere. Hell, he'd even be an improvement on a fit Oster from what I've seen of the two.

It was discussed many times on here how serious Little was and their were signals coming from the club that was the case at the end of last season.

Routledge should have been signed, just as Gary O'Neill should have been signed. Routledge won't play at Villa, I'm sure if we'd made a serious offer for him, he wouldn't have turned it down. Just like O'Neill wouldn't have moved away from his family to the other side of the country to sign for a shite club if we'd made a serious offer.

The question is why we don't or can't make offers for these players. Coppell insist we can compete financially, which he wouldn't say if he didn't.

Now I know the usuals will come out and say how do you know we haven't tried to sign 10 players this month? I don't care who we try and sign, it's who we sign that matters.

[Vision]

It was discussed many times on here how serious Little was and their were signals coming from the club that was the case at the end of last season.

There were certainly doubts but at the time we still had Seol and Oster whilst Fae had been signed after we'd originally seen him play there for Ivory Coast. Even after Seol left we replaced him with Rosenior who had played that position frequently early in his career. Of course as Coppell has since admitted that hasn't panned out as he thought but equally as i said earlier Doyle and Hunt have performed Ok there and in my view its not been as big an issue as the failure to bolster our central midfield area.

Routledge should have been signed, just as Gary O'Neill should have been signed. Routledge won't play at Villa, I'm sure if we'd made a serious offer for him, he wouldn't have turned it down. Just like O'Neill wouldn't have moved away from his family to the other side of the country to sign for a shite club if we'd made a serious offer.

The question is why we don't or can't make offers for these players. Coppell insist we can compete financially, which he wouldn't say if he didn't.

Why. Because you say so? Routledge was a hot prospect for years coming through the youth set up at Palace. I even recall a documentary series on Channel 5 which highlighted the Palace academy and how Routledge was one of the great hopes for England's future. I would be quite certain that given his connections Coppell would know an awful lot more about Routledge than most and suspect that is the reason he hasn't been in for him if indeed that is the case.

I'd agree with you that O'Neill is a player i would like to have seen here but once again no-one actually knows whether we enquired about him or whether we had any interest whatsoever. Also people talk as if these potential signings would definitely have improved us. The truth is we just don't know. Generally speaking when we do invest money beyond what we're used to, be it veterans on higher wages or bigger money investments it hasn't always worked as we'd have liked. I've said before that i think that new players take time to settle here because we do things our own way which is very different from other clubs. Any big money signings have to accept that they are joining a squad of players and do not automatically earn a 1st team spot because of a largely artificial valuation. Coppell puts a lot of store by player's attitude in training and it may well be that a lot signings we see as realistic are not considered for that reason.

Of course the above is pure speculation on my part and may well be complete bollox but in my opinion so is this idea that just because a player goes from 1 club to another in a particular position then he would automatically have improved us if he'd joined us. Its all speculation and conjecture really, which is i suppose the whole point of this board. Probably

[Hoop Blah]

I'd agree with you that O'Neill is a player i would like to have seen here but once again no-one actually knows whether we enquired about him or whether we had any interest whatsoever. Also people talk as if these potential signings would definitely have improved us.

There isn't a lot of doubt in my mind that O'Neil would've improved us.

He'd looked a cracker player for Pompey and the U21's for a number of seasons. He fitted our mould of young and with something to prove and as an added bonus he's capable of playing both in the middle or out on the right. He's a runner and tackler as well as comfortable on the ball and creative.

The times I've seen him play for 'Boro he's been just about their best player. I don't think the gamble on him settling into the Reading way would've been that great.

I really do think we missed the boat on that one, be it for whatever reason a lack of interest or not competing on wages.

[Royal Rother]

Routledge should have been signed, just as Gary O'Neill should have been signed. Routledge won't play at Villa, I'm sure if we'd made a serious offer for him, he wouldn't have turned it down. Just like O'Neill wouldn't have moved away from his family to the other side of the country to sign for a shite club if we'd made a serious offer.

The question is why we don't or can't make offers for these players. Coppell insist we can compete financially, which he wouldn't say if he didn't.

Now I know the usuals will come out and say how do you know we haven't tried to sign 10 players this month? I don't care who we try and sign, it's who we sign that matters.

With respect, if you insist on questioning Coppell's judgment, (and you seem to accept that he has got the money if he wants it) the right question to ask is why did he decide that Routledge and O'Neill did not offer value at the price and wages demanded.

If we could get an answer to that question I'm sure it would be very revealing.

[Victor Meldrew]

Like Vision I'm not totally convinced about Routledge-I thought that a similar player to him in Jobi McAnuff was going to go on to be a star and I felt the same about Ashley Young when he first played against us for Watford-same goes for Lee Cook.
Only Young has really progressed but the others are still young enough to do better and I still think Wade Elliott might do better than at Burnley or possibly now Burnley themselves might squeeze into the Premiership through the play-offs.

BacK to Routledge.We all respect Coppell's ability to spot a player but also don't we think that Martin O'Neill isn't too shabby a manager either?
If he is in for Routledge no doubt he feels that he can make him realise his full potential.
I just wish that Coppell had followed what he had said previously that players signed now should be ready to play immediately in English football and generally foreign players aren't ready.

One other point-Doyle and Hunt have done o.k at filling in but I fear that we go too much for "filling-in",e.g.Cisse at centre-back and Bryn last season.
We are not Ajax where they breed total footballers we are Reading trying to stay in the Premier League and I do feel that (other than in an emergency)players should play in their recognised positions and I don't feel overjoyed that Kebe prefers to play on the left and wonder if he will go on strike again if asked to play on the right.

[Vision]

I'd agree with you that O'Neill is a player i would like to have seen here but once again no-one actually knows whether we enquired about him or whether we had any interest whatsoever. Also people talk as if these potential signings would definitely have improved us.

There isn't a lot of doubt in my mind that O'Neil would've improved us.

He'd looked a cracker player for Pompey and the U21's for a number of seasons. He fitted our mould of young and with something to prove and as an added bonus he's capable of playing both in the middle or out on the right. He's a runner and tackler as well as comfortable on the ball and creative.

The times I've seen him play for 'Boro he's been just about their best player. I don't think the gamble on him settling into the Reading way would've been that great.

I really do think we missed the boat on that one, be it for whatever reason a lack of interest or not competing on wages.

Wouldn't argue with any of that to be honest although i guess we'll never know.

[Vision]

Like Vision I'm not totally convinced about Routledge-I thought that a similar player to him in Jobi McAnuff was going to go on to be a star and I felt the same about Ashley Young when he first played against us for Watford-same goes for Lee Cook.
Only Young has really progressed but the others are still young enough to do better and I still think Wade Elliott might do better than at Burnley or possibly now Burnley themselves might squeeze into the Premiership through the play-offs.

BacK to Routledge.We all respect Coppell's ability to spot a player but also don't we think that Martin O'Neill isn't too shabby a manager either?
If he is in for Routledge no doubt he feels that he can make him realise his full potential.
I just wish that Coppell had followed what he had said previously that players signed now should be ready to play immediately in English football and generally foreign players aren't ready.

One other point-Doyle and Hunt have done o.k at filling in but I fear that we go too much for "filling-in",e.g.Cisse at centre-back and Bryn last season.
We are not Ajax where they breed total footballers we are Reading trying to stay in the Premier League and I do feel that (other than in an emergency)players should play in their recognised positions and I don't feel overjoyed that Kebe prefers to play on the left and wonder if he will go on strike again if asked to play on the right.

As regards the filling in part . you do have a point but even with the money in the Premeirship these days , realistically you still will have only 2 specialists for each position in your squad. That being the case with both right midfield specialists being injured ( and the perceived replacement Fae not having settled ) and 2 specialist centre halves at the ACON then its quite likely that most squads will have to use players to "fill in" during periods of the season. FWIW i think the December period when Hunt played Right midfield was easily our most consistent period in terms of performances while the 2 home games Newcastle & Man Utd that i recall Doyle played Right Midfield were certainly 2 of the better team performances as well.

[Hoop Blah]

I'd agree with you that O'Neill is a player i would like to have seen here but once again no-one actually knows whether we enquired about him or whether we had any interest whatsoever. Also people talk as if these potential signings would definitely have improved us.

There isn't a lot of doubt in my mind that O'Neil would've improved us.

He'd looked a cracker player for Pompey and the U21's for a number of seasons. He fitted our mould of young and with something to prove and as an added bonus he's capable of playing both in the middle or out on the right. He's a runner and tackler as well as comfortable on the ball and creative.

The times I've seen him play for 'Boro he's been just about their best player. I don't think the gamble on him settling into the Reading way would've been that great.

I really do think we missed the boat on that one, be it for whatever reason a lack of interest or not competing on wages.

Wouldn't argue with any of that to be honest although i guess we'll never know.

Until we sign him in the summer because he's homesick and becomes a total flop here!!!

[RoyalBlue]

I see Bolton have managed to sign a PL Centre Back.

Meanwhile our bank balance continues to look very healthy - for this season at least!

It's a bit worrying that Kebe see's himself as more of a centre forward or left winger though. Especially when you consider that Coppell hasn't seen the lad play.

What gets me about the right wing situation is that they said in August that they didn't know how long it was going to take Little to come back and that in the last week they were about to look for another option. It then went all quiet despite the fact that they were trying to get Soel out the door at the same time.

To be fair i'm not sure anyone knew in August exactly how long Little would be out for. it was a short while after that they agreed to the take the surgical route which has written him off since. Also I doubt if anyone thought Oster would miss virtually the whole period with 2 seperate injuries either. Obviously its proved to be a mistake which Coppell himself has admitted.

But Little had already been out for months and just what signs for optimism were there? They must have had a pretty good idea by then that his injury was not responding as they expected/hoped. Meanwhile they were working behind the scenes to ship out Seol which meant we would just be left with our third choice specialist winger in Oster, even assuming he did recover and didn't get injured/suspended again. It was an effing big mistake by Coppell and whilst it is nice of him to admit it, he still hasn't put it right!

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

We do seem to sign a fair number of players that Coppell hasn't seen. It does seem that the way the club works is that others go out and find players for Coppell to consider signing.

Given the number of players we've signed since promotion (8? 9?) and the number who have made their way into a first choice Reading XI (currently 1 if Marek can perform as well in a starring role as in cameos) then regardless of whether we go down or stay up, we need to look at our scouting network as they just aren't delivering the goods. If our scouts can't find players that are good enough now, rather than good enough "if they adjust", then we should get rid of them and get ones who are better at the job.

It makes more sense to me that Coppell just hasn't been that keen on some of the players he's been offered than he's "lost the plot", as the stock phrase of every moronic 606 caller goes.

[Hoop Blah]

Like Vision I'm not totally convinced about Routledge-I thought that a similar player to him in Jobi McAnuff was going to go on to be a star and I felt the same about Ashley Young when he first played against us for Watford-same goes for Lee Cook.
Only Young has really progressed but the others are still young enough to do better and I still think Wade Elliott might do better than at Burnley or possibly now Burnley themselves might squeeze into the Premiership through the play-offs.

BacK to Routledge.We all respect Coppell's ability to spot a player but also don't we think that Martin O'Neill isn't too shabby a manager either?
If he is in for Routledge no doubt he feels that he can make him realise his full potential.
I just wish that Coppell had followed what he had said previously that players signed now should be ready to play immediately in English football and generally foreign players aren't ready.

One other point-Doyle and Hunt have done o.k at filling in but I fear that we go too much for "filling-in",e.g.Cisse at centre-back and Bryn last season.
We are not Ajax where they breed total footballers we are Reading trying to stay in the Premier League and I do feel that (other than in an emergency)players should play in their recognised positions and I don't feel overjoyed that Kebe prefers to play on the left and wonder if he will go on strike again if asked to play on the right.

At the price he went for Routledge would've been well worth the gamble.

I'm sure his wages wouldn't have broken the bank either really. Even coming from Spurs and undoutedly being on a fair whack there I don't think he'd have been asking for much more than our regulars like Harper because he sounded pretty desperate to get out of Spurs and start playing games again. If it came down to a bidding war with Villa then of course we couldn't afford to match their wages.

[Wycombe Royal]

I see Bolton have managed to sign a PL Centre Back.

28 matches in the PL over 4 seasons. He's played more games in the Championship. To me £5m for that experience is way over the top for that level of experience. (I'm not saying he's crap, just that he doesn't have the experience to warrant that fee).

[The whole year inn]

We'll see on Saturday.

50 goals shipped so far, on course for 75-80 by the seasons end and nobody added to the defence. Obviously we have no problems there

[Hoop Blah]

I see Bolton have managed to sign a PL Centre Back.

28 matches in the PL over 4 seasons. He's played more games in the Championship. To me £5m for that experience is way over the top for that level of experience. (I'm not saying he's crap, just that he doesn't have the experience to warrant that fee).

£5m is a lot of money for Cahill. Not sure I'd feel comfortable paying that kind of money for him BUT that does seem to be more like the going rate these days and his price is inflated because O'Neil didn't really want to see him go.

£7m for Woodgate or £5m for Cahill...not sure which one offers better value for money there considering how often Woodgate actually plays. But when you see that Villa also paid £3.5m for Knight and will end up paying £9m for Curtis Davis then it's not that far off the market rate for a 22 year old prospect.

January see's a premium on the price, and the closer it gets to the end of Jan the bigger than premium too.

[Royal Rother]

At the price he went for Routledge would've been well worth the gamble.

I'm sure his wages wouldn't have broken the bank either really. Even coming from Spurs and undoutedly being on a fair whack there I don't think he'd have been asking for much more than our regulars like Harper

What possible grounds are there to even consider paying someone like Routledge more than "regulars like Harper"? He's 23 now and has shown very little (since being a Palace teenager) at a variety of clubs. To pay him top wages would absolute madness.

[Hoop Blah]

At the price he went for Routledge would've been well worth the gamble.

I'm sure his wages wouldn't have broken the bank either really. Even coming from Spurs and undoutedly being on a fair whack there I don't think he'd have been asking for much more than our regulars like Harper

What possible grounds are there to even consider paying someone like Routledge more than "regulars like Harper"? He's 23 now and has shown very little (since being a Palace teenager) at a variety of clubs. To pay him top wages would absolute madness.

That's not quite what I meant, although at some point we need to raise the bar slightly to get better players in (not that I'm saying Routledge is at that point). That is going to mean paying new players the going rate and not relying on the likes of Oster and Gunnarsson to take up key roles.

I used the example of Harper because he signed his new contract just as we were promoted and so he's not on the kind of contract that Doyle is.

What I mean't was his demands wouldn't be too great. His current wages and what he'd be asking for wouldn't be outside of our budget, ie he probably fits 'our market' we keep hearing about.

I still think he'd be better than our current options on the right wing and the way those selections effect the strength of other positions of the team.

[Wycombe Royal]

Christian Wilhelmsson has left Bolton.