#SellBeforeWeDai Action/Inaction Group

[Lower West]

That’s the tricky thing about protesting, though. You are often attempting to pressure a side into doing the right thing (for you) through means that causes them inconvenience. I mean, it’s not like we haven’t also needed Dai on our side.

If Haitong are actively blocking the sale because they want Dai to pay the debt prior to sale,

No different to selling your own property if you have a mortgage on it. Banks lend against assets that they they can sell and realise to settle what they are owed. Not their problem if the owners took a gamble that failed. Up to any potential buyers of the club to find a solution.

[ham]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.




I

[Extended-Phenotype]

That’s the tricky thing about protesting, though. You are often attempting to pressure a side into doing the right thing (for you) through means that causes them inconvenience. I mean, it’s not like we haven’t also needed Dai on our side.

If Haitong are actively blocking the sale because they want Dai to pay the debt prior to sale,

No different to selling your own property if you have a mortgage on it. Banks lend against assets that they they can sell and realise to settle what they are owed. Not their problem if the owners took a gamble that failed. Up to any potential buyers of the club to find a solution.

Except the mortgage is paid off from the proceeds if I sell my house. The lender doesn't insist I pay the mortgage beforehand and scupper every attempt to sell.

[MartinRdg]

That’s the tricky thing about protesting, though. You are often attempting to pressure a side into doing the right thing (for you) through means that causes them inconvenience. I mean, it’s not like we haven’t also needed Dai on our side.

If Haitong are actively blocking the sale because they want Dai to pay the debt prior to sale,

No different to selling your own property if you have a mortgage on it. Banks lend against assets that they they can sell and realise to settle what they are owed. Not their problem if the owners took a gamble that failed. Up to any potential buyers of the club to find a solution.

Except the mortgage is paid off from the proceeds if I sell my house. The lender doesn't insist I pay the mortgage beforehand and scupper every attempt to sell.

That's because a mortgage lender will not lend you more than the value of your house (or shouldn't!) but it seems that this Chinese bank have lent him £55M against an asset worth considerably less which is bad business in anyone's book.

[Crusader Royal]

No different to selling your own property if you have a mortgage on it. Banks lend against assets that they they can sell and realise to settle what they are owed. Not their problem if the owners took a gamble that failed. Up to any potential buyers of the club to find a solution.

Except the mortgage is paid off from the proceeds if I sell my house. The lender doesn't insist I pay the mortgage beforehand and scupper every attempt to sell.

That's because a mortgage lender will not lend you more than the value of your house (or shouldn't!) but it seems that this Chinese bank have lent him £55M against an asset worth considerably less which is bad business in anyone's book.

Negative equity ?
Surely they lend you an amount based on the value at the time. That value can go up or down and also depends o. The accuracy of the initial valuation.

[MartinRdg]

Except the mortgage is paid off from the proceeds if I sell my house. The lender doesn't insist I pay the mortgage beforehand and scupper every attempt to sell.

That's because a mortgage lender will not lend you more than the value of your house (or shouldn't!) but it seems that this Chinese bank have lent him £55M against an asset worth considerably less which is bad business in anyone's book.

Negative equity ?
Surely they lend you an amount based on the value at the time. That value can go up or down and also depends o. The accuracy of the initial valuation.

Was the stadium ever worth £55m?

[Extended-Phenotype]

No different to selling your own property if you have a mortgage on it. Banks lend against assets that they they can sell and realise to settle what they are owed. Not their problem if the owners took a gamble that failed. Up to any potential buyers of the club to find a solution.

Except the mortgage is paid off from the proceeds if I sell my house. The lender doesn't insist I pay the mortgage beforehand and scupper every attempt to sell.

That's because a mortgage lender will not lend you more than the value of your house (or shouldn't!) but it seems that this Chinese bank have lent him £55M against an asset worth considerably less which is bad business in anyone's book.

Ah.

[Green]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

Good post, +1

[Pepe the Horseman]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

Good post, +1

Nice to see you two getting along. There was a kid at my primary school with the surname Greenham.

[Horsham Royal]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

Good post, +1

Nice to see you two getting along. There was a kid at my primary school with the surname Greenham.

Just need a post from eggs.

[tmesis]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

I

He also owes £500 million on a loan he took out to buy Evergrande shares, just before the firm's collapse.

He seems to have spent the last few years of his life like he's acting out a Chinese version of Brewster's Millions.

[Vision]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

Good post, +1

Nice to see you two getting along. There was a kid at my primary school with the surname Greenham.

It's quite Common.

[Sutekh]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

I

He also owes £500 million on a loan he took out to buy Evergrande shares, just before the firm's collapse.

He seems to have spent the last few years of his life like he's acting out a Chinese version of Brewster's Millions.

Not someone you’d want to predict the week’s lottery numbers is he?

[ham]

Sadly, this is all such a mess that further protest seems utterly pointless. Dai wants to sell because he needs money, but can’t because he’s gambled away £50 million of the bank’s money. The Chinese bank want their money back but no one in their right mind is going to give Dai £30 million and pay separately for the stadium.

Dai is a oxf*rd and I wish him nothing but awful things, but the only purpose protesting serves now is to make people feel slightly better; like they did something as the club faded away. Which it very much sounds like it will unless by some miracle someone can untangle this absolute clusterfukk.

I

He also owes £500 million on a loan he took out to buy Evergrande shares, just before the firm's collapse.

He seems to have spent the last few years of his life like he's acting out a Chinese version of Brewster's Millions.

Not someone you’d want to predict the week’s lottery numbers is he?

It’s getting increasingly difficult to see us avoiding, at best, administration. And at worst, complete collapse.

[Sutekh]

Be positive

[Forbury Lion]

Was the stadium ever worth £55m?

Nope, although you have to factor in the value of the land for redevelopment, which I imagine isn't more than the value with the stadium on it once you factor in demolition and construction costs to create, presumably offices which are already two a penny next door in Green Park.

Didn't the club "sell" the stadium for £55m to the separate company at one point to try and fiddle Financial Fair Play? - ie the reason we got a points deduction? If so, the bank wouldn't be stupid enough to take a valuation based on the sale of the stadium from, effectively Dai Younge to Dai Younge would they?.... if so, maybe I could sell a dustbin to myself for £100m and then borrow £100m against it from that same bank to save Reading FC.... It does mean I may struggle to sell the bin and ultimately may see the bank take ownership of it, but I can live with that.

The bank may only be called out as incompetent if they reposes something that then turns out to be worth less than half it's value, so it may be in their interests not to do so.

[Clyde1998]

Was the stadium ever worth £55m?

Nope, although you have to factor in the value of the land for redevelopment, which I imagine isn't more than the value with the stadium on it once you factor in demolition and construction costs to create, presumably offices which are already two a penny next door in Green Park.

Didn't the club "sell" the stadium for £55m to the separate company at one point to try and fiddle Financial Fair Play? - ie the reason we got a points deduction? If so, the bank wouldn't be stupid enough to take a valuation based on the sale of the stadium from, effectively Dai Younge to Dai Younge would they?.... if so, maybe I could sell a dustbin to myself for £100m and then borrow £100m against it from that same bank to save Reading FC.... It does mean I may struggle to sell the bin and ultimately may see the bank take ownership of it, but I can live with that.

The bank may only be called out as incompetent if they reposes something that then turns out to be worth less than half it's value, so it may be in their interests not to do so.

I think the stadium was "sold" for £26.5m. However, it's possible the stadium was one of multiple assets used as collateral or the loan was under-collateralised in the first place.

I think the original loan was for £45m and has risen to a value of £55m due to unpaid interest.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Was the stadium ever worth £55m?

Nope, although you have to factor in the value of the land for redevelopment, which I imagine isn't more than the value with the stadium on it once you factor in demolition and construction costs to create, presumably offices which are already two a penny next door in Green Park.

Didn't the club "sell" the stadium for £55m to the separate company at one point to try and fiddle Financial Fair Play? - ie the reason we got a points deduction? If so, the bank wouldn't be stupid enough to take a valuation based on the sale of the stadium from, effectively Dai Younge to Dai Younge would they?.... if so, maybe I could sell a dustbin to myself for £100m and then borrow £100m against it from that same bank to save Reading FC.... It does mean I may struggle to sell the bin and ultimately may see the bank take ownership of it, but I can live with that.

The bank may only be called out as incompetent if they reposes something that then turns out to be worth less than half it's value, so it may be in their interests not to do so.

I think the stadium was "sold" for £26.5m. However, it's possible the stadium was one of multiple assets used as collateral or the loan was under-collateralised in the first place.

I think the original loan was for £45m and has risen to a value of £55m due to unpaid interest.

Likely to be a parcel of securities for the loan; banks usually use a lending value of between 50 & 65% of the value of the asset for lending to commercial clients.

[Crusader Royal]

Was the stadium ever worth £55m?

Nope, although you have to factor in the value of the land for redevelopment, which I imagine isn't more than the value with the stadium on it once you factor in demolition and construction costs to create, presumably offices which are already two a penny next door in Green Park.

Didn't the club "sell" the stadium for £55m to the separate company at one point to try and fiddle Financial Fair Play? - ie the reason we got a points deduction? If so, the bank wouldn't be stupid enough to take a valuation based on the sale of the stadium from, effectively Dai Younge to Dai Younge would they?.... if so, maybe I could sell a dustbin to myself for £100m and then borrow £100m against it from that same bank to save Reading FC.... It does mean I may struggle to sell the bin and ultimately may see the bank take ownership of it, but I can live with that.

The bank may only be called out as incompetent if they reposes something that then turns out to be worth less than half it's value, so it may be in their interests not to do so.

Wasn’t it Derby who sold their ground to the owner for a clearly over inflated amount ?
IIRC we sold ours for the value it had on our balance sheet and that was based on an independent valuation whereas Derby’s was valued by someone connected to the club. Don’t think we did anything wrong did we ? It’s common practice for businesses to move assets around their books to maximise benefits.

[Lower West]

Was the stadium ever worth £55m?

Nope, although you have to factor in the value of the land for redevelopment, which I imagine isn't more than the value with the stadium on it once you factor in demolition and construction costs to create, presumably offices which are already two a penny next door in Green Park.

Didn't the club "sell" the stadium for £55m to the separate company at one point to try and fiddle Financial Fair Play? - ie the reason we got a points deduction? If so, the bank wouldn't be stupid enough to take a valuation based on the sale of the stadium from, effectively Dai Younge to Dai Younge would they?.... if so, maybe I could sell a dustbin to myself for £100m and then borrow £100m against it from that same bank to save Reading FC.... It does mean I may struggle to sell the bin and ultimately may see the bank take ownership of it, but I can live with that.

The bank may only be called out as incompetent if they reposes something that then turns out to be worth less than half it's value, so it may be in their interests not to do so.

Wasn’t it Derby who sold their ground to the owner for a clearly over inflated amount ?
IIRC we sold ours for the value it had on our balance sheet and that was based on an independent valuation whereas Derby’s was valued by someone connected to the club. Don’t think we did anything wrong did we ? It’s common practice for businesses to move assets around their books to maximise benefits.

What value an asset is sold at between connected parties and that placed on it by a bank as security for a loan are very dfferent matters. The bank may well have recourse to all of Dai's UK based assets whether they be business or personal.