Rival Watch

[Elm Park Kid]

They are claiming against this season though, not the previous ones. Which makes the argument even more ridiculous because we've had a business plan agreed between both ourselves and the EFL, so I'm not sure what they are expecting them to say with this.

Their legal argument will presumably be that the business plan the EFL agreed with Reading didn't conform to their own rules as stated in the P&S guidelines. Essentially that the EFL has not been tough enough with us and that that has given Reading more of an advantage than the 6 points deduction.

Clearly the EFL is very unlikely to agree that they've messed up their own practices. But this is probably the first stage before taking them to court.

Again though, this year is the first year of the three year cycle for FFP. We don't have to conform each year, we have to conform over 3 years.

Isn't it just a permanent 3-year rolling cycle? So, even though we failed for 2017/2018 to 2020/2021, the rules would expect us to be compliant over 2018/19 to 2021/22? Obviously given the extent of our losses this is impossible, and the EFL has to take a pragmatic approach to what restrictions/punishments we have to operate under. But Barnsley's case is (presumably) based on the premise that the EFL has not been strict enough according to their own rules. We are still allowed to have a wage budget this season which is substantially above our income, giving us an advantage over all clubs that do try and stick within P&S.

I'm not an expert, I don't know the details, I'm just speculating on what Barnsley's complaint will be. They're not idiots, they wouldn't submit something that was obviously completely wrong - there has to be something tangible to hang the complaint on (even if it's highly unlikely to hold up).

[Coppells Lost Coat]

I see this as fishing for a bit of compensation for Barnsley - dont ask dont get. Whine for long enough put your case to the EFL and they might cave. But i doubt EFL have the balls to settle that claim as it would just open the door for every other team in the division to declare the same.
Yeah we over spent in a obscene way - but look where its got us. Embargos, points deduction and a thread bare squad.

[Zip]

Surely their claim should be against the EFL. We are under a transfer embargo so all our deals have to go through the EFL. So I can only assume we are complying with the EFL otherwise we would not be allowed to sign players within the parameters set out by them.

[PATRIQT]

Barnsley have reported Reading to the EFL.

They say the club’s finances have put them at a competitive disadvantage.

Barnsley chief exec Khaled El-Ahmad wrote the following to the EFL:

“We believe #ReadingFC are at a sporting advantage in the 2021-22 season by continuing to operate a business model that is incompatible with P&S compliance. Barnsley are at a competitive disadvantage now.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/TalkReading/ ... 8989180928

Extract of text from The Athletic article here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Read ... ick&f=live

Laughable. Every nitty gritty detail has gone through the EFL, so frustratingly so that we could only give Andy Carroll £1000 a week. Barnsley are getting desperate, just like Derby.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Their legal argument will presumably be that the business plan the EFL agreed with Reading didn't conform to their own rules as stated in the P&S guidelines. Essentially that the EFL has not been tough enough with us and that that has given Reading more of an advantage than the 6 points deduction.

Clearly the EFL is very unlikely to agree that they've messed up their own practices. But this is probably the first stage before taking them to court.

Again though, this year is the first year of the three year cycle for FFP. We don't have to conform each year, we have to conform over 3 years.

Isn't it just a permanent 3-year rolling cycle? So, even though we failed for 2017/2018 to 2020/2021, the rules would expect us to be compliant over 2018/19 to 2021/22? Obviously given the extent of our losses this is impossible, and the EFL has to take a pragmatic approach to what restrictions/punishments we have to operate under. But Barnsley's case is (presumably) based on the premise that the EFL has not been strict enough according to their own rules. We are still allowed to have a wage budget this season which is substantially above our income, giving us an advantage over all clubs that do try and stick within P&S.

I'm not an expert, I don't know the details, I'm just speculating on what Barnsley's complaint will be. They're not idiots, they wouldn't submit something that was obviously completely wrong - there has to be something tangible to hang the complaint on (even if it's highly unlikely to hold up).

Yes, you're correct it is a rolling cycle. However, you would also be punishing clubs every season in that case, such as ourselves, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham etc because none of us would be realistically able to reduce our spending to what is classed as sustainable levels of income either in just one season. So we'd be "failing" FFP regulations for more than just one season, hence why these business plans are agreed between clubs and the EFL, so, providing we comply with this, then it's fine as far as we are concerned.

Again though, the majority of clubs in this division have wages that are not sustainable with their income. I believe well over half of the league have a wages to turnover percentage of over 100%. Of course, this is worst for some than others, but that's besides the point. Owners are allowed to invest into the running of clubs, so even though our income may not be able to cover our spend, our income + owner investment can cover our spend which can be compliant with FFP regulations. It seems as if Barnsley are just claiming on anything really, without looking at the wider picture.

[Mr Angry]

Barnsley's position somewhat undermined by virtue of the fact that they didn't register this the instant we got hit with the 6 point deduction.

It smacks of opportunism and is a waste of everyone's time, because - as many previous posters have pointed out - we are following the instructions and the restrictions placed on us by the EFL.

Unless Barnsley can come up with evidence that we are actually in breach of those agreed restrictions then all they are doing is pissing into a hurricane.

[Stranded]

Again though, this year is the first year of the three year cycle for FFP. We don't have to conform each year, we have to conform over 3 years.

Isn't it just a permanent 3-year rolling cycle? So, even though we failed for 2017/2018 to 2020/2021, the rules would expect us to be compliant over 2018/19 to 2021/22? Obviously given the extent of our losses this is impossible, and the EFL has to take a pragmatic approach to what restrictions/punishments we have to operate under. But Barnsley's case is (presumably) based on the premise that the EFL has not been strict enough according to their own rules. We are still allowed to have a wage budget this season which is substantially above our income, giving us an advantage over all clubs that do try and stick within P&S.

I'm not an expert, I don't know the details, I'm just speculating on what Barnsley's complaint will be. They're not idiots, they wouldn't submit something that was obviously completely wrong - there has to be something tangible to hang the complaint on (even if it's highly unlikely to hold up).

Yes, you're correct it is a rolling cycle. However, you would also be punishing clubs every season in that case, such as ourselves, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham etc because none of us would be realistically able to reduce our spending to what is classed as sustainable levels of income either in just one season. So we'd be "failing" FFP regulations for more than just one season, hence why these business plans are agreed between clubs and the EFL, so, providing we comply with this, then it's fine as far as we are concerned.

Again though, the majority of clubs in this division have wages that are not sustainable with their income. I believe well over half of the league have a wages to turnover percentage of over 100%. Of course, this is worst for some than others, but that's besides the point. Owners are allowed to invest into the running of clubs, so even though our income may not be able to cover our spend, our income + owner investment can cover our spend which can be compliant with FFP regulations. It seems as if Barnsley are just claiming on anything really, without looking at the wider picture.

It is rolling. As we have taken a punishment the first 2 years (which is actually 3 currently) now count as a 26m loss. The business plan is designed to keep us under the 39m threshold. Barnsley are clearly arguing that they don't believe we are or could possibly do that based on the reports just released.

However, as I understand it the punishment was based on a forecast, so the actuals won't play a part in any future calculation as last season has already been judged on. We may only be in trouble if the forecast wildly misrepresented the actual loss.

So unless the forecast for this season sees us lose more than 13m, we will escape sanction. As a result, Barnsley may have a point but their argument is with the EFL and not us as such.

[Hendo]

Seen quite a few Barnsley fans on twitter being quite embarrassed by this. Sounds like this has come from the board out of the blue, rather than the fans kicking up a stink about it all.

[Mr Angry]

Seen quite a few Barnsley fans on twitter being quite embarrassed by this. Sounds like this has come from the board out of the blue, rather than the fans kicking up a stink about it all.

I just had a quick look on their fans forum and it seems to be evenly split between those who are embarassed by their club being petty, and those that think that any club that breaks the rules - and their fans (like, it was us that broke the rules!) - be hung, drawn and quartered (allowing squeaky clean teams like...er, Barnsley, to gain entrance into the land of milk and honey.)

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Seen quite a few Barnsley fans on twitter being quite embarrassed by this. Sounds like this has come from the board out of the blue, rather than the fans kicking up a stink about it all.

I just had a quick look on their fans forum and it seems to be evenly split between those who are embarassed by their club being petty, and those that think that any club that breaks the rules - and their fans (like, it was us that broke the rules!) - be hung, drawn and quartered (allowing squeaky clean teams like...er, Barnsley, to gain entrance into the land of milk and honey.)

I said this initially, if they are going to pick on us because we are a direct rival, go and pick on the Bournemouth's, Bristol City's, Stoke's and Middlesbrough's of this division who are forecasted to break FFP regulations as well (whether they avoid sanctions and dodge round it is a different story). For example, the vast majority of clubs have a wages to turnover percentage that is over 100%, this isn't funded by the club, this is funded by the owners.

[Snowflake Royal]

They should have just asked to take Moore and Ejaria and Cabral on loan for a fraction of their wages if they were upset.

I'd say our spending and recruitment has put us at a big DISadvantage.

[bcubed]

Shouldn’t we be reporting Derby to the EFL?

[Zip]

Shouldn’t we be reporting Derby to the EFL?

Said this a month ago. How is it right Derby can play Bielik when they have still to pay his transfer fee 2.5 years after buying him? Why were the administrators allowed to turn down fees for players in January when it is clear many creditors will receive nothing like what they are owed?

[Sutekh]

Barnsley have reported Reading to the EFL.

They say the club’s finances have put them at a competitive disadvantage.

Barnsley chief exec Khaled El-Ahmad wrote the following to the EFL:

“We believe #ReadingFC are at a sporting advantage in the 2021-22 season by continuing to operate a business model that is incompatible with P&S compliance. Barnsley are at a competitive disadvantage now.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/TalkReading/ ... 8989180928

Extract of text from The Athletic article here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Read ... ick&f=live

Laughable. Every nitty gritty detail has gone through the EFL, so frustratingly so that we could only give Andy Carroll £1000 a week. Barnsley are getting desperate, just like Derby.

This is ludicrous. What happens if Derby survive shouldn’t Barnsley then sue them instead? And given the likely problems at Stoke, Bristol C and Middlesbrough next season shouldn’t Barnsley also be sueing them as they’re obviously in breach this season.

[Stranded]

Barnsley have reported Reading to the EFL.

They say the club’s finances have put them at a competitive disadvantage.

Barnsley chief exec Khaled El-Ahmad wrote the following to the EFL:

“We believe #ReadingFC are at a sporting advantage in the 2021-22 season by continuing to operate a business model that is incompatible with P&S compliance. Barnsley are at a competitive disadvantage now.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/TalkReading/ ... 8989180928

Extract of text from The Athletic article here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Read ... ick&f=live

Laughable. Every nitty gritty detail has gone through the EFL, so frustratingly so that we could only give Andy Carroll £1000 a week. Barnsley are getting desperate, just like Derby.

This is ludicrous. What happens if Derby survive shouldn’t Barnsley then sue them instead? And given the likely problems at Stoke, Bristol C and Middlesbrough next season shouldn’t Barnsley also be sueing them as they’re obviously in breach this season.

Also still not clear what happens if Derby stay up and they are expelled from the league/liquidate. Would the 3rd from bottom be saved or the Champ be 23 teams next season?

[Mr Angry]

Surely the best thing for that Barnsley CEO to do in order to prevent Barnsley getting relegated is to simply sue everyone; the EFL itself, each individual team in the Championship, his own players.....the list is endless.

He may get lucky, you never know.

But lots and lots of clubs will end up going down the "No win, no fee - I will see you in Court" path unless there are steps to stop it.

My suggestion: Any club is free to sue any other (or the EFL) for anything they want....but if they are unsuccesful, they suffer an immediate relegation to the Division below the one in which they are in when the legal action is concluded.

So, Barnsley sue us now, the court action isn't concluded until July by which time they are in League 1; they lose the Court action and so are then relegated to League 2.

Risk and reward.

[Zip]

Barnsley now have three successive home games starting with tonight.

[LUX]

We could really do with them losing tonight.

[LUX]

Fcking come on Stoke

[AthleticoSpizz]

Moore not even on the bench tonight……does that mean we have the chance of a Sjoke win?