Another 6 point, points deduction incoming

[Stranded]

Well quite.

Alan Nixon again stated this evening that this is/has gone to a panel. So could be any punishment at any time.

And could then be appealed I guess.

[karbota]

Yet again more evidence of the corrupting influence of foreign ownership and foreign players destroying our game.

[Snowflake Royal]

I guess there will be the usual Thurs press conf tomorrow, just hope the journos challenge the usual "I haven't heard anything" cr@p because I don't buy that now. The club must know what's going on and Ince must also given he's team manager.

I deal with investigations a lot. There's no reason the club know what's going on, you don’t tend to keep the suspect up to date on details unless they need them to give you something.

Ince manages on the pitch stuff. There's no reason for him to know anything other than snippets from the financial and senior management except get results on the pitch we might need them more than you think.

You don't involve more people than absolutely necessary to avoid leaks and miscommunicatiosn that can hurt you.

Legal advice is likely to be say nothing or as little as possible. The more that gets out the harder a situation is to manage. And until the FL make any sort of disclosure or determination to the club anything they say is largely speculation.

Ince has already said more that he should and has probably been shut down, given he's said something along the lines of he thinks it's historic from before his tenure (convenient) and we'd be getting 6 points soon a while back.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Seems like it - we definitely need to finish 7 points above the bottom 3 come the end of the season, fun seen as we could well be safe comfortably by the time we play Huddersfield yet still potentially need points to "absolutely" confirm survival.

Might liven up the often dull close season though, so swings and roundabouts.

I'd probably prefer that to be honest rather than chance our arm on the last day, again.

[Stranded]

Mentioned on the other thread but Ince reckons it is coming within the next 24 to 48 hours.

Which suggests, it must be a breach of the business plan which opens questions on either the capability of those in charge at the club (again) or the EFL for enforcing limits that were close to impossible to meet. More the former in my view if this does come to pass.

[Snowflake Royal]

There's no question those in charge aren't capable of running the club properly.

If it's a breach of this year's plan that must surely mean at least 15 points.

6 suspended plus at least 9 for a new offence.

And it would be a question of whether we lied in our representations to get signings approved or just made stupidly unrealistic assumptions about income/costs/being able to move people on, not that we really tried for most.

I'm sure someone would have given us £1m for Joao in the summer, at least £500k.

[Vision]

There's no question those in charge aren't capable of running the club properly.

If it's a breach of this year's plan that must surely mean at least 15 points.

6 suspended plus at least 9 for a new offence.

And it would be a question of whether we lied in our representations to get signings approved or just made stupidly unrealistic assumptions about income/costs/being able to move people on, not that we really tried for most.

I'm sure someone would have given us £1m for Joao in the summer, at least £500k.

I remember both Bowen and Ince saying at certain times there was little point in selling anyone as we couldn't reinvest the money in the team.

[Hound]

There's no question those in charge aren't capable of running the club properly.

If it's a breach of this year's plan that must surely mean at least 15 points.

6 suspended plus at least 9 for a new offence.

And it would be a question of whether we lied in our representations to get signings approved or just made stupidly unrealistic assumptions about income/costs/being able to move people on, not that we really tried for most.

I'm sure someone would have given us £1m for Joao in the summer, at least £500k.

Why would they give us another 9 on top? That makes no sense

The suspended 6 is the punishment for breaking the plan surely

[blythspartan]

As bad as this is for me to say I have gone beyond the point of caring. I want it done and dusted so that we can start again and if it’s in League 1 so be it. Hopefully, we can survive but realistically given our current form and injuries I can’t see that happening. Yes, the bottom 3 are sh*te but it only takes Udders to hit a bit of form under Warnock and we’re doomed.

[Ascotexgunner]

Seems like it - we definitely need to finish 7 points above the bottom 3 come the end of the season, fun seen as we could well be safe comfortably by the time we play Huddersfield yet still potentially need points to "absolutely" confirm survival.

Might liven up the often dull close season though, so swings and roundabouts.

I doubt it....We will probably finish with us going LLLLLLLLL

[Snowflake Royal]

There's no question those in charge aren't capable of running the club properly.

If it's a breach of this year's plan that must surely mean at least 15 points.

6 suspended plus at least 9 for a new offence.

And it would be a question of whether we lied in our representations to get signings approved or just made stupidly unrealistic assumptions about income/costs/being able to move people on, not that we really tried for most.

I'm sure someone would have given us £1m for Joao in the summer, at least £500k.

I remember both Bowen and Ince saying at certain times there was little point in selling anyone as we couldn't reinvest the money in the team.

Which was stupid at the time and stupid now if it turns out we've breached our business plan.

[Snowflake Royal]

There's no question those in charge aren't capable of running the club properly.

If it's a breach of this year's plan that must surely mean at least 15 points.

6 suspended plus at least 9 for a new offence.

And it would be a question of whether we lied in our representations to get signings approved or just made stupidly unrealistic assumptions about income/costs/being able to move people on, not that we really tried for most.

I'm sure someone would have given us £1m for Joao in the summer, at least £500k.

Why would they give us another 9 on top? That makes no sense

The suspended 6 is the punishment for breaking the plan surely

The 6 points suspended is for breaking FFP in the first place. It's suspended because we said we'd fix our problems and comply with a business plan. If we fail to comply with the business plan, intended to keep us from breaching FFP again, we've probably breached FFP again. New offence new penalty.

Look at Wigan. 3 points suspended for failing to pay players. They fail to pay players again the 3 suspended points are applied and the FL start a new investigation into the new offences - potentially to be punished by further points deductions.

It all depends on whether the trigger is just a breach of conditions, but we haven't breached standard FFP, or the breach of conditions is a new breach of FFP.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I thought the suspended 6 points was if we were to fail to comply with the business plan? Not if we were to break FFP regulations, that would be a separate issue and there is no guarantee that failing to comply with our business plan is breaking FFP regulations at the moment. As it is, I can't see why it would be 6 and then a further 9.

[Stranded]

I thought the suspended 6 points was if we were to fail to comply with the business plan? Not if we were to break FFP regulations, that would be a separate issue and there is no guarantee that failing to comply with our business plan is breaking FFP regulations at the moment. As it is, I can't see why it would be 6 and then a further 9.

I wish people would just read the actual agreement - it is pretty clear on penalties at least:

It has been agreed and I hereby order that the Club is sanctioned for the breach as follows:
6.1 The Club is to be immediately deducted 6 points in the 2021/22 Championship season.
6.2 The Club is also subject to a suspended sanction of 6 points to be deducted from its season
points total in Season 2021/22 (or Season 2022/23), on the first occasion on or before 30 June
2023 that:
i) the Club fails to file such documents as are required to be filed in accordance with the
provisions of Rule 2.2 of the P&S Rules by 1 March in the relevant Season(s);
2
ii) the Club breaches the Budget as more particularly described in paragraphs 19 and 21
of Appendix 1; or
iii) the Club is found to have committed (or admits) a further breach of the P&S Rules by
its P&S Calculation resulting in a loss that exceeds the Upper Loss Threshold as
applicable at the time of the submission in accordance with Rule 2.2,
the “Suspended Penalty”.
7. The Suspended Penalty will be in addition to any sanction to be imposed in respect of:
7.1 any further breach(es) of the P&S Rules, including but not limited to further breaches of the
Upper Loss Threshold; and/or
7.2 any breach(es) of the Budget,
and shall not operate to mitigate any sanction that may be imposed for such a breach.

So depending on the breach, we will automatically get 6 points but it does not preclude us getting additional points, as paragraph 7 clearly states. It is possible that is what the hold up has been, EFL wanted to dock us more than 6, we said no as the club believed it had done all it could, it's gone to a panel and they will have made a call on if 6 is the right sanction or if more is needed.

[Hound]

Business plan and FFP are pretty different though. Business plan is really for this year and back end of last year. This years accounts aren’t due for 12 months

We could very easily break the business plan and go nowhere near breaking ffp which is what I assume we’ve done

Unless we broke ffp last year and they are punishing us on that - which would be a bit harsh tbh. And our accounts suggest we were prob under 13m loss on ffp

Or we haven’t broken tbe business plan either and it’s some old offence

[Stranded]

Business plan and FFP are pretty different though. Business plan is really for this year and back end of last year. This years accounts aren’t due for 12 months

We could very easily break the business plan and go nowhere near breaking ffp which is what I assume we’ve done

Unless we broke ffp last year and they are punishing us on that - which would be a bit harsh tbh. And our accounts suggest we were prob under 13m loss on ffp

Or we haven’t broken tbe business plan either and it’s some old offence

Which is why I am currently holding off on attacking those currently running the day to day, as we still don't know the offence. If it turns out we have breached because we turned down a deal for Joao - who has barely played then they deserve all the stick they can get - if it ends up being an overlooked punishment from the Gourlay days then I will be more forgiving of the current incumabents as we will have done what was expected and kept us competitive (if horrible to watch).

I hope we get to see the details of what the breach was, and by how much we have breached by.

[Hound]

Business plan and FFP are pretty different though. Business plan is really for this year and back end of last year. This years accounts aren’t due for 12 months

We could very easily break the business plan and go nowhere near breaking ffp which is what I assume we’ve done

Unless we broke ffp last year and they are punishing us on that - which would be a bit harsh tbh. And our accounts suggest we were prob under 13m loss on ffp

Or we haven’t broken tbe business plan either and it’s some old offence

Which is why I am currently holding off on attacking those currently running the day to day, as we still don't know the offence. If it turns out we have breached because we turned down a deal for Joao - who has barely played then they deserve all the stick they can get - if it ends up being an overlooked punishment from the Gourlay days then I will be more forgiving of the current incumabents as we will have done what was expected and kept us competitive (if horrible to watch).

I hope we get to see the details of what the breach was, and by how much we have breached by.

Yeah exactly that really

I’m struggling to understand how we’ve managed to get this penalty still tbh - either done something kind blowingly stupid, it’s a very minor breach (surely it must be with the EFL watching our every move) and possibly something debatable or it is something historic that got overlooked first time round

Intrigued and bored by it at the same time

[SouthDownsRoyal]

What’s happening with this points deduction

[Royals and Racers]

What’s happening with this points deduction

It`s coming today !!

[windermereROYAL]

What’s happening with this points deduction

It`s coming today, allegedly !!

There, fixed it for you.