kebe celebration

[Snowball]

2008-9

Starts/Sub/ "games"/Fouls/Yellows

09 01 09.17 24 0 Kitson
15 26 19.33 46 3 Long
39 02 39.33 30 4 Doyle
29 10 30.67 35 5 Noel


Quite surprised to see Noel as more likely to get a yellow than Shane

[Snowball]

Dunno precisely but Kitson, Church, Kebe have been sent off at least once for Reading

[Platypuss]

Yellows are pretty meaningless unless they have a real impact on squad selection. It doesn't really matter how many yellow cards Long gets if he never tots up enough to be suspended.

An interesting stat would therefore be games missed due to suspension due to reds/totted up yellows. Naturally Doyle would be miles in front, but what order next?

[Snowball]

A foul is one thing, a yellow is either more serious
or given for persistent fouling

Of course it may be that some players are not as clever when fouling and get a red instead of a yellow

As for "2 sendings off" rare or not rare

This is not TOTAL sendings off but sendings off in a single season (strikers only)

Premiership

4 Cantona
2 Cantona
2 Fergusson
2 Dublin
2 Hartson
2 Alan Smith
2 Poyet
2 Solano
2 Hartson
2 Viduka
2 Robben
2 Carlton Cole

So all those have one as badly as young Shane, Cantona a tad worse!

[CMRoyal]

Shane has not had a yellow this season

That's because he bypasses them in favour of going to a straight red.

snowball, any chance you can give us a comparative breakdown of red cards per minute played? You favour that approach for assists and goals, so it would be consistent of you to provide the same for red cards. See it as a litmus test of the theory that you are deriving your opinions from the stats rather than merely scatter-shotting the forum with selective stats to back up pre-defined positions.

[donface]

Three of those aren't strikers.

StatFAIL.

[Snowball]

Three of these are not strikers?

4 Cantona
2 Cantona
2 Fergusson
2 Dublin
2 Hartson
2 Alan Smith (while playing striker for LEEDS)
2 Poyet
2 Solano
2 Hartson
2 Viduka
2 Robben
2 Carlton Cole

There were other players on 2 sendings-off in a single season, some I'm sure were strikers
(I was amazed at how many foreign names I couldn't recall as players)... I just copied the names
of those I considered attacking players

[Snowball]

Shane has not had a yellow this season

That's because he bypasses them in favour of going to a straight red.

snowball, any chance you can give us a comparative breakdown of red cards per minute played? You favour that approach for assists and goals, so it would be consistent of you to provide the same for red cards. See it as a litmus test of the theory that you are deriving your opinions from the stats rather than merely scatter-shotting the forum with selective stats to back up pre-defined positions.

The stats ARE for "minutes played"

I call a start 90 minutes and a sub appearance 15 minutes and total it that way.

When I tested this quick rule of thumb way of estimating minutes on the pitch (ignoring injury time BTW)
I did Shane Long's official figures and was just a third of a game out.

So if it says 20.5 games that's 1845 minutes with a plus/minus error of a couple of per cent

[CMRoyal]

Shane has not had a yellow this season

That's because he bypasses them in favour of going to a straight red.

snowball, any chance you can give us a comparative breakdown of red cards per minute played? You favour that approach for assists and goals, so it would be consistent of you to provide the same for red cards. See it as a litmus test of the theory that you are deriving your opinions from the stats rather than merely scatter-shotting the forum with selective stats to back up pre-defined positions.

The stats ARE for "minutes played"

I call a start 90 minutes and a sub appearance 15 minutes and total it that way.

When I tested this quick rule of thumb way of estimating minutes on the pitch (ignoring injury time BTW)
I did Shane Long's official figures and was just a third of a game out.

So if it says 20.5 games that's 1845 minutes with a plus/minus error of a couple of per cent

Sorry to be dense, but can you re-post the stats for red cards per minutes played? I can't find it.

Also, it would be really interesting to see how forwards' and midfielders' suspensions affect their strike and assist rates.

[Snowball]

1 Sorry to be dense, but can you re-post the stats for red cards per minutes played? I can't find it.

2 Also, it would be really interesting to see how forwards' and midfielders' suspensions affect their strike and assist rates.

1. I posted (previous page) the last full season, all cards, and "games" is minutes divided by 90

2. Suspensions don't affect scoring RATE or assist RATE as that's numbers/minutes played or games played

It would or could, of course, affect player TOTALS of goals and assists


So, for example, Long's scoring ratio is static while he's out suspended.

[CMRoyal]

1 Sorry to be dense, but can you re-post the stats for red cards per minutes played? I can't find it.

2 Also, it would be really interesting to see how forwards' and midfielders' suspensions affect their strike and assist rates.

1. I posted (previous page) the last full season, all cards, and "games" is minutes divided by 90

2. Suspensions don't affect scoring RATE or assist RATE as that's numbers/minutes played or games played

It would or could, of course, affect player TOTALS of goals and assists


So, for example, Long's scoring ratio is static while he's out suspended.

1. So not red cards then? It would be interesting to see where Long stands on that over his career because I suspect that part of his relatively slow progression is down to poor discipline. The physical part of his game is of course important, but more important might be getting a settled place in the team. He might be lucky and get straight back in the team this time, but if not..?

2. Yes, "rate" is the wrong word. "Return" might be better - it's an arbtitrary way of doing it, but including self-inflicted absence (ie suspension) again might underline one key area Shane must iron out in order to continue improving as a player.

[Snowball]

Agree completely that Shane has to avoid red cards now, big time

And yes he needs to force his way into the team, make the No 9 his spot and keep it.

I'm sure MacGod will be talking to him. Frankly there's no need for fines or anything else,
Shane will work it out.

When he's fired up he races big differences to challenge players, and as he thunders in
you can't help but think, "Oh shee!t!" but most of the time the defender gets rid quickly
or Shane wins the ball or a throw.

He DOES have to learn more discipline and he will, but he's still pretty much a kid, at just 23

[Snowball]

I suspect that part of his relatively slow progression is down to poor discipline.

But as a striker he clearly IS improving

Last season he had 9 goals in 11 (26) appearances (= 15.5 games) a phenomenal strike rate, better than 1 in 2.

This season he has had 5 goals in 11 (11) appearances (= 13.2 games) again, a brilliant strike rate.

Combine the two seasons and you get

22 Starts 37 sub appearances (= 28.17 games) and 14 goals. A strike rate of 1 in 2


A Goals per game record that is better than any other Reading player of the last five years I think.

So maybe he could do even better, but he IS getting goals. He was third-top scorer last year
but scored more often than either Doyle or Noel Hunt. He is raw, raw talent

39-02 = 39.3 games for 18 goals = a goal every 2.18 games DOYLE
27-10 = 28.8 games for 11 goals = a goal every 2.62 games HUNT
11-26 = 15.2 games for 09 goals = a goal every 1.69 games LONG

[Snowball]

Here is how Long looks for League and FA Cup games this season

He is up there in joint fourth 9-8-6-5-5 but on about half the starts

A goal every 2.57 games, matching Gylfi

22 05 22.83 9 2.54 Gylfi
11 11 12.83 5 2.57 Long
14 10 15.67 6 2.61 Rasiak
05 05 05.83 2 2.92 Hunt
23 05 23.83 8 2.98 Church
17 13 19.17 5 3.83 Kebe

That list has the Burton/Barnsley League Cup games removed
as I don't like Mickey-Mouse games with weak teams,
but for the record, add in that game and Gylfi looks better.

23 05 23.83 10 2.38 Gylfi
11 11 12.83 05 2.57 Long
14 10 15.67 06 2.61 Rasiak
23 05 23.83 08 2.98 Church
05 07 06.17 02 3.09 Hunt
17 13 19.17 05 3.83 Kebe

[Snowball]

ST sub PL goals G/G AS Season
11 08 12.33 05 02.47 02 09-10 0222 Long
24 05 24.83 10 02.48 06 09-10 0224 Gylfi
19 09 20.50 08 02.56 01 09-10 0231 Rasiak
24 05 24.83 09 02.76 00 09-10 0248 Church
18 13 20.17 07 02.88 03 09-10 0259 Kebe
05 07 06.17 02 03.08 01 09-10 0278 Noel
19 06 20.00 03 06.67 03 09-10 0600 Howard
16 03 16.50 01 16.50 00 09-10 1485 Cisse
28 00 28.00 01 28.00 08 09-10 2520 Jobi

[Terminal Boardom]

WTF have all these pointless, meaningless statistics got to do with Jimmy Kebe' celebration? The only meaningful statistic is where we finish on 2nd May. Anything else is irrelevant!

As for Kebe's celebrations today, it is great to see him look as if he is really enjoying his football. Been a long time coming but it might just be worth the wait.

[bigmike]

WTF have all these pointless, meaningless statistics got to do with Jimmy Kebe' celebration? The only meaningful statistic is where we finish on 2nd May. Anything else is irrelevant!

As for Kebe's celebrations today, it is great to see him look as if he is really enjoying his football. Been a long time coming but it might just be worth the wait.

snowbalLOL talking pish again ... Look at me I have a calculator and too much time on my hands

[Messiah]

ST sub PL goals G/G AS Season
11 08 12.33 05 02.47 02 09-10 0222 Long
24 05 24.83 10 02.48 06 09-10 0224 Gylfi
19 09 20.50 08 02.56 01 09-10 0231 Rasiak
24 05 24.83 09 02.76 00 09-10 0248 Church
18 13 20.17 07 02.88 03 09-10 0259 Kebe
05 07 06.17 02 03.08 01 09-10 0278 Noel
19 06 20.00 03 06.67 03 09-10 0600 Howard
16 03 16.50 01 16.50 00 09-10 1485 Cisse
28 00 28.00 01 28.00 08 09-10 2520 Jobi

Just fcuk off!

[Snowball]

He is a good player at our level, a very good player at our level.

I, and a few others have been saying so for two years
and now the lad is proving it.

[Snowball]

ST sub PL goals G/G AS Season
11 08 12.33 05 02.47 02 09-10 0222 Long <<<<<<<<<
24 05 24.83 10 02.48 06 09-10 0224 Gylfi
19 09 20.50 08 02.56 01 09-10 0231 Rasiak
24 05 24.83 09 02.76 00 09-10 0248 Church
18 13 20.17 07 02.88 03 09-10 0259 Kebe <<<<<<<<
05 07 06.17 02 03.08 01 09-10 0278 Noel
19 06 20.00 03 06.67 03 09-10 0600 Howard
16 03 16.50 01 16.50 00 09-10 1485 Cisse
28 00 28.00 01 28.00 08 09-10 2520 Jobi

Just fcuk off!

You need to lurn to spel