BFTG villa

[Big Foot]

Cheering the departure of a bloke who was so much to do with getting us here and a heroes welcome for a bloke who refused to even travel to one match.

Too many new money fans at the spaccerbowl these days who don't care for class or loyalty and just want success at any cost. They need to go support QPR, Chelsea or Man City.

Agreed - wont be renewing next season.

[SCIAG]

IF we are without Pog, and we don't feel that any of the other players
can play his role, why not 3-5-2?

Because 3-5-2 is usually worse than 4-4-2.

In 4-4-2, the midfield is overrun.

In 3-5-2, the wide players are likely to be exposed and the three centre backs are dealing with one striker.

Additionally, none of our players have played 3-5-2 and with Kebe injured we don't have anyone capable of playing right wing back. Kelly there would stifle our creativity, HRK/McCleary would leave us exposed.

[Para Handy]

Glad to see a few posts having a go at the fans yesterday - what an absolute shower of thick pcunts you are.

Yes things weren't really coming off for Jobi yesterday but the guy never ever gives up and for all the abuse he created two goals (one disallowed). The guy captained the club to a wholly unexpected and brilliant Championship last season and he gets that in return?

And Leigertwood? The same people who chaired him off the pitch after the Forest match last year now go to games actively looking to criticise him (and Jobi). They're just waiting to leap on the first mistake either of them make. Mind blowing.

For anyone who wasn't at the game, let me tell you got rightly bollocked after the second Villa goal - Hope Akpan. Just stood around doing nothing and failed to follow the world's most obvious run which allowed them a free cross. He might be a good player in the future but he's far too raw at this level and it was fair enough to take him off the pitch.

And why is Guthrie such a saviour all of a sudden? The bloke's played better than everyone else for, oh, 45mins all season - on the occasions when he's actually bothered to turn to a game, of course. And yet you sing this guy's praises at the expense of people who played out of their skin to get us to the Prem in the first place.

Oh and Blackman - he actually played pretty well when he came on. Yes he should've done better with his header but overall his touch and movement were good. No worse than Noel Hunt.

HRK probably our MOTM but more than anything I just wanted to say that I actively dislike Reading supporters as a whole. Maybe other sets of fans are as bad but yesterday was fukking ridiculous.

Having steeled myself to trawl through the usual shite of the BFTG thread with contributions from those that aren't actually back from the game, I can only concur with everything Mags has said above.

[Maguire]

Actually it is important in a 451 to have someone up top who can hold the ball up. That's where defending starts. Suggesting a 451 is equally tight defensively no matter who plays as the 1 is barmy.

Absolute nonsense.

You have clearly never played football. It's not something you piece together in a spreadsheet. Sorry.

[Uke]

10 pages in on this thread

Have we changed the result or the manager yet?

We move on...

[ZacNaloen]

Actually it is important in a 451 to have someone up top who can hold the ball up. That's where defending starts. Suggesting a 451 is equally tight defensively no matter who plays as the 1 is barmy.

Absolute nonsense.

You have clearly never played football. It's not something you piece together in a spreadsheet. Sorry.

I have to question whether you where actually watched any of games when we were playing in 4-5-1 if you truly believe our improvement in defense started with Pogs work up front

[barelylubedcock]

I very much doubt that, Ive replied to stuff youve said before, and you replied to it. So this now makes me even more sure that my accusation is true.

I've got 30000 posts and I'll reply to anyone. You're flattering yourself.

"But for me, it was Tuesday"

[barelylubedcock]

For the 4-4-2/4-5-1 debate, yes, clearly the identity and style of the 1 matters, but the, in the few games I have watched, the improvement was that the 5 worked as a unit for 90 minutes and didn't switch off. Pog helped in a way that I don't think the other options could do, but the significant change was elsewhere.

We didn't change it after the first defeat (Stoke), we dropped 4-5-1 after the second defeat (Wigan, Pog sent off), so the idea that BMcD has resorted to what he knows after a defeat doesn't really hold up. We changed because the one striker in the squad who could cope with being the lone-1 got himself sent off for a ridiculous challenge. This is damning for the depth of the squad and options available - perhaps the thing to buy in the window was a player to replace Roberts?

For all of his goals, the one thing I never want to see at this level is ALF starting. He is perfect to come on with 10-15 to play against a defense that is starting to tire. Starting? Against fresh legs and fresh minds? Utter madness. He doesn't have the strength or the raw pace to make anything. Hunt and Le Fondre? Championship winning class, but jesus, that's like playing Warwick Davis and Rusty Goffe, ffs.

[Maguire]

For the 4-4-2/4-5-1 debate, yes, clearly the identity and style of the 1 matters

Thank you.

[barelylubedcock]

... but Zac is trying to argue something else.

I just had an image of starting a Premiership game with Noel Hunt as a lone striker.

[RockheadRumple]

For all of his goals, the one thing I never want to see at this level is ALF starting. He is perfect to come on with 10-15 to play against a defense that is starting to tire. Starting? Against fresh legs and fresh minds? Utter madness. He doesn't have the strength or the raw pace to make anything.

The problem doesn't lie with LeFondre, though; again, it's the god damn midfield. I watch Alfie a lot during the games and he makes a real effort making runs, finding spaces and pointing at where he wants the ball - but he never gets it. Our midfield isn't creative enough to use a player of his class. Frankly, he deserves to be at a much better team than Reading.

[ZacNaloen]

... but Zac is trying to argue something else.

I just had an image of starting a Premiership game with Noel Hunt as a lone striker.

I'm arguing for one of the 5 midfielders being slightly higher up the field when we are in position and that when we do get the ball back we don't rush it up field with a percentage punt to an isolated striker who'll only win 1 in ten headers and when with the 1 in ten he does win will only go to a winger who will put in a toothless cross to no one.

[barelylubedcock]

Even then, I still wouldn't start him.

I'd go so far as to say he looks so out of his depth starting that it might be enough to put Premiership teams off him in the summer.

[ZacNaloen]

in the few games I have watched, the improvement was that the 5 worked as a unit for 90 minutes and didn't switch off. Pog helped in a way that I don't think the other options could do, but the significant change was elsewhere.

Massive roll eyes emoticon directed at Maguire.

[leicsRoyal]

Whether we play 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or any other formation for that matter, we haven't got the strength in depth to be effective. IMO that's why McDermott still doesn't seem overly comfortable with what his strongest starting eleven is.

Through sheer grit and determination we grind out a result here and there against a team that maybe on a off day or shut off for the last 10 minutes or so. If any team in this league plays to their full potential we can't live with them. 90% of the players in our squad will give everything they've got for the team and the fans and certainly don't deserve to be booed or the brunt of many ill thought out remarks. These same players will be some of the best in the Championship next year, if we don't manage to hack them off so much that they want to leave.

It's not one of the players faults that they are out there on a Saturday afternoon being matched up against world class players. Our transfer policy let us down I'm afraid and not the players that won us the Championship last year.

[ZacNaloen]

Even then, I still wouldn't start him.

I'd go so far as to say he looks so out of his depth starting that it might be enough to put Premiership teams off him in the summer.

I wouldn't start Alf or Noel Hunt either. Most suited striker we have this point of time in terms of raw attributes is Blackman He;s not good enough either. Our transfer policy this year has been bloody awful.

I want to see Hal in the most advanced midfield position, Blackman to start up front. Mcleary and Mcanuff out wide.

The other 3 midfielders have to be Akpan, Guthrie and Leigertwood. It still won't be good enough to keep us up but it will be more solid.

[Maguire]

... but Zac is trying to argue something else.

I just had an image of starting a Premiership game with Noel Hunt as a lone striker.

I'm arguing for one of the 5 midfielders being slightly higher up the field when we are in position and that when we do get the ball back we don't rush it up field with a percentage punt to an isolated striker who'll only win 1 in ten headers and when with the 1 in ten he does win will only go to a winger who will put in a toothless cross to no one.

This is totally different from your frankly batty claims that who plays up front in a 451 has no bearing on the effectiveness of the formation.

In fact it's such an incredibly stupid observation that i don't really know what else to say to you.

Obviously having an extra central midfielder helps with defensive solidity - nobody ever said otherwise - but so does having a striker who can hold the ball up and retain possession (that's Pogrebnyak, in case you're still struggling)

[ZacNaloen]

I don't think you've even read the whole conversation.

I've already said the full story of why the attributes of the man up front are important to 4-5-1, and also why Pogrebnyak was actually pretty bad at fulfilling that role.

At no point did I actually say another striker could do the exact job as well as Pogrebnyak. I argued for either another striker filling in and making do because of the extra defensive stability brought on by the extra man in midfield, or moving the midfield around to cope so we still had some attacking threat in the 4-5-1. Not that we had much to begin with, because Pog wasn't very good at his role.

At no point did I say "anyone can play up front in 4-5-1, it doesn't matter"

Keep battering away at that strawman though.

[royal_cornwall]

Loyalty to certain players will take us down from the Premiership, which is exactly what happened last time. If we have any hope of survival, Brian really needs to become ruthless and drop certain players and try something new. We have nothing more to lose than where we are now.

/\ This. Fan abuse of players on a personal level is abysmal, and it speaks volumes for the plasticity and lack of imagination of a section of the fanbase. But their criticism is not entirely without merit. As i said previously Legs in particular, and Jobi on occasion (amongst others, i am only singling out these two are as they seem to be the players McD rates as 'indispensable' to the first team and therefore appear to have an immunity to deselection due to poor form) have shown themselves not to be up to the task at hand. This gives rise to the idea that their being consistently selected is either favouritism, which McD insists he does not approve of, or sentimentality. This is dangerous. If we'd fought the Falklands with Spitfires because they did well in WW2 it might have gone very differently. Crude metaphor maybe but it seems the club totally underestimated the gulf in class that accompanies the step up between the Championship and the Prem. Southampton spent millions upgrading their squad and aren't totally clear of the relegation dogfight, how could anyone possibly think we could get away with strengthening so little and expect anything other than what we've got? McD is unapologetic and almost bewilderingly dismissive of the trouble we're in. He refuses to point the finger of blame ay anyone or accept its burden for himself and the board are silent, so who can the fans blame?

Absolutely spot on post. This totally sums it up for me.

[creative_username_1]

At no point did I say "anyone can play up front in 4-5-1, it doesn't matter"

Absolute nonsense.