Fans forum

[Dirk Gently]

Can it now be finally agreed that, contrary to what many said, we did have "Second Season Syndrome"?

Yes, but that "Second Season Syndrome" is actually mainly down to the complacent attitude and lack of hunger in the players rather than the many other factors suggested.

[Platypuss]

Can it now be finally agreed that, contrary to what many said, we did have "Second Season Syndrome"?

Yes, but that "Second Season Syndrome" is actually mainly down to the complacent attitude and lack of hunger in the players rather than the many other factors suggested.

But wasn't that also the same factor that we were told by fans and management alike wouldn't happen to us as we were somehow different?

[North Somerset Royal]

That we had second season syndrome was never in doubt by me from the moment I read the weekly column that Marcus had in the Daily Mail entitled " Second Season Syndrome"

[papereyes]

Can it now be finally agreed that, contrary to what many said, we did have "Second Season Syndrome"?

Yes, but that "Second Season Syndrome" is actually mainly down to the complacent attitude and lack of hunger in the players rather than the many other factors suggested.

Isn't that what its usually down to, though? A sense that 'I've made it so I don't need to work as hard as I did'?

Oh, and syndrome: "a combination of phenomena seen in association".

[loyalroyal4life]

To help try and prevent 2nd season syndrome, we should of employed a full time psychologist who could of looked at ways to help keep the players mind focused on the job in hand and not what things they could buy and spend their money on come the weekend

[Dirk Gently]

To help try and prevent 2nd season syndrome, we should of employed a full time psychologist who could of looked at ways to help keep the players mind focused on the job in hand and not what things they could buy and spend their money on come the weekend

Perhaps a grammar expert would OF been as useful?

[Hoop Blah]

In which case why did Coppell say "we enquired about Watson"? (That's the exact words used, by the way).

If not wanting to buy a player who was unsettled and wanting to leave his club because he's not guaranteed a starting place -and then not being able to guarantee that player a starting place - is "not wanting that level of competition" then that's fine by me.

I'm not sure why he said it, you'd have to ask Coppell, he was the one that went on to ask what he should do when Matejovsky gets back to fitness if he bought in Watson.

Another Coppell contradiction perhaps?

Maybe it was an enquiry with Harper going in mind, in which case I thought he probably would've suggested that at the time.

Personally I think it just seems a bit of a copout to say we gave up our interest because of history between them making it difficult. I'm sure when £2m or whatever was waved infront of his eyes things would've been smoothed over, even if this is Jordan we're talking about.

[West Stand Man]

[
Shirley, the best chance of going up is to have the best and hungriest team in the division. That works 100% of the time and it doesn't always need to involve large investment.

Do you really have to have your private chats with Shirley on this forum. Surely you could do that elsewhere.

[Hoop Blah]

Can it now be finally agreed that, contrary to what many said, we did have "Second Season Syndrome"?

Yes, but that "Second Season Syndrome" is actually mainly down to the complacent attitude and lack of hunger in the players rather than the many other factors suggested.

Exactly, and the best way to avoid that attitude creeping in is to keep the club moving forwards (taking the European challenge) and by successfully freshening up the squad and not relying on those players who think they've made it.

Competition, ambition and a real challenge set out to the players is the best way to beat second season syndrome, making do and staying loyal to out of form players is unfortunately not.

[Dirk Gently]

Can it now be finally agreed that, contrary to what many said, we did have "Second Season Syndrome"?

Yes, but that "Second Season Syndrome" is actually mainly down to the complacent attitude and lack of hunger in the players rather than the many other factors suggested.

Exactly, and the best way to avoid that attitude creeping in is to keep the club moving forwards (taking the European challenge) and by successfully freshening up the squad and not relying on those players who think they've made it.

Competition, ambition and a real challenge set out to the players is the best way to beat second season syndrome, making do and staying loyal to out of form players is unfortunately not.

Agreed, except that the real challenge set out to the players was to get their form back by a manager who stayed loyal to them. But I think we're arguing semantics - and the "why we went down" arguments have been done to death - let's not re-open them all now!

[papereyes]

Competition, ambition and a real challenge set out to the players is the best way to beat second season syndrome, making do and staying loyal to out of form players is unfortunately not.

Going into an anecdotal pissing match is not my intention but ...

both West Ham and Ipswich did try to invest and show ambition/increase competition in their second seasons yet some players (Ferdinand and Reo-Coker, iirc, but I'm sure there's more) still responded as if they'd made it.

"Happy families are all alike. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" perhaps?

I think syndrome is the right word, fwiw. A set of symptoms that are observed. For different clubs, different things take different weightings. The results, or the relative change in results compared to the previous season, is much the same.

[Barry the bird boggler]

To help try and prevent 2nd season syndrome, we should of employed a full time psychologist who could of looked at ways to help keep the players mind focused on the job in hand and not what things they could buy and spend their money on come the weekend

Or full time players who actually had some idea how to defend and where the goal was.

[readingbedding]

Scored 4 goals on Saturday, in case anyone's forgotten.

[Elm Park Old Boy]

Having read the report of the forum has crystallised for me the idea that we are really in transition now. I had kind of hoped we'd keep the bulk of the side together and that would be good enough. But it seems to me that Coppell is making clear that he had thought that but the players' attitude (wanting out) has moved us into a new situation.

In which case the introduction of Pearce and karacan seems the start of more changes. bring it on - if people want to go, and we can get a decent sum for them, that must be right. The club seem to me to be doing exactly the right thing.

[Uke]

Surely you could do that elsewhere.

Stop calling me Shirley!

[Hoop Blah]

Competition, ambition and a real challenge set out to the players is the best way to beat second season syndrome, making do and staying loyal to out of form players is unfortunately not.

Going into an anecdotal pissing match is not my intention but ...

both West Ham and Ipswich did try to invest and show ambition/increase competition in their second seasons yet some players (Ferdinand and Reo-Coker, iirc, but I'm sure there's more) still responded as if they'd made it.

"Happy families are all alike. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" perhaps?

I think syndrome is the right word, fwiw. A set of symptoms that are observed. For different clubs, different things take different weightings. The results, or the relative change in results compared to the previous season, is much the same.

I agree, but I think the problems at West Ham were added to by Pardew losing the dressing room and the off the field issues that surrounded the club. Generally though, part of the evolution of the squad has to be the removal of the bad apples as well as providing competition for the remaining performers and non-performers. I guess that is the one part of the art of successful management.

[Dirk Gently]

Competition, ambition and a real challenge set out to the players is the best way to beat second season syndrome, making do and staying loyal to out of form players is unfortunately not.

Going into an anecdotal pissing match is not my intention but ...

both West Ham and Ipswich did try to invest and show ambition/increase competition in their second seasons yet some players (Ferdinand and Reo-Coker, iirc, but I'm sure there's more) still responded as if they'd made it.

"Happy families are all alike. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" perhaps?

I think syndrome is the right word, fwiw. A set of symptoms that are observed. For different clubs, different things take different weightings. The results, or the relative change in results compared to the previous season, is much the same.

I agree, but I think the problems at West Ham were added to by Pardew losing the dressing room and the off the field issues that surrounded the club. Generally though, part of the evolution of the squad has to be the removal of the bad apples as well as providing competition for the remaining performers and non-performers. I guess that is the one part of the art of successful management.

Agreed, but then when one of the "bad apples" is removed (or at least not stopped from going) there are howls of protest from a majority of supporters. It's a no-win situation....

[brendywendy]

Can it now be finally agreed that, contrary to what many said, we did have "Second Season Syndrome"?

Yes, but that "Second Season Syndrome" is actually mainly down to the complacent attitude and lack of hunger in the players rather than the many other factors suggested.

Exactly, and the best way to avoid that attitude creeping in is to keep the club moving forwards (taking the European challenge) and by successfully freshening up the squad and not relying on those players who think they've made it.

Competition, ambition and a real challenge set out to the players is the best way to beat second season syndrome, making do and staying loyal to out of form players is unfortunately not.

except there are teams who have done well in their 1st seasons, kept moving forwards, spent on new players in the second season, but still went down.

[Uke]

I agree, but I think the problems at West Ham were added to by Pardew losing the dressing room and the off the field issues that surrounded the club. Generally though, part of the evolution of the squad has to be the removal of the bad apples as well as providing competition for the remaining performers and non-performers. I guess that is the one part of the art of successful management.

Agreed, but then when one of the "bad apples" is removed (or at least not stopped from going) there are howls of protest from a majority of supporters. It's a no-win situation....

The apples analogy is quite good

All apples ripen and then they end up going rotten (disruptive) and lacking in taste (Hummers)

SSC likes the ripening apples

Also bad apples can infect healthy apples and they also need discarding

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed, but then when one of the "bad apples" is removed (or at least not stopped from going) there are howls of protest from a majority of supporters. It's a no-win situation....

Well as we didn't get rid of anyone who might've been considered one of those bad apples we'll never know what the reaction from the majority would've been.

Getting rid of Shorey and Kitson this season hasn't really been met with howls of protest has it? I think the majority of the debate has been about whether or not we're bringing in players capable of replacing them than whether or not it was time to cash in on them.

Making tough decisions, maybe even explaining them, and living with them is what these guys get paid a hell of a lot of money for. Without wanting to go into it all again, it just seems like we wanted to avoid it.