Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by SCIAG » 01 Sep 2017 20:49

2 world wars, 1 world cup So perhaps we shouldn't be so concerned that we have not signed a specialised striker.

I do think we'll be quite fluid this season, but I also think we're probably going to use a striker most of the time. We signed two big strikers for a lot of money. Aluko might be able to play wide on occasion, but JDB doesn't really look like he can play anywhere else.
John Smith Didn't Spain win a world cup without a striker?

Not quite - either Torres or Villa started every match at the World Cup, with Villa scoring five goals. They mostly used Fabregas up front when they won Euro 2012 although Torres played some of the time.

Maneki Neko do Liverpool/arsenal/barca go into the season without fit proven quality goalscorer in the squad then?

Liverpool's only proven striker is Daniel Sturridge, who is fit less than half the time.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Lower West » 01 Sep 2017 21:07

Hound TBH, think a bit too much is made of Yann's age generally. No real reason if you can do the job he did last year at 35 he can't at 36. Clearly looks after himself, and sports science etc is so good nowadays



Doing a job isn't enough. If the aim is promotion.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Hound » 01 Sep 2017 21:23

Lower West
Hound TBH, think a bit too much is made of Yann's age generally. No real reason if you can do the job he did last year at 35 he can't at 36. Clearly looks after himself, and sports science etc is so good nowadays



Doing a job isn't enough. If the aim is promotion.


I said the job he did last year. Which was pretty bl00dy exceptional and one of the main reasons we came third

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Maneki Neko » 01 Sep 2017 22:11

But the likelihood is that 1year older will equal x amount fewer games/goals

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by maffff » 01 Sep 2017 22:25

Hound
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Hound TBH, think a bit too much is made of Yann's age generally. No real reason if you can do the job he did last year at 35 he can't at 36. Clearly looks after himself, and sports science etc is so good nowadays



Doing a job isn't enough. If the aim is promotion.


I said the job he did last year. Which was pretty bl00dy exceptional and one of the main reasons we came third



The job he did last year was a regression to mean in his all round play and minutes to goals. He was consistently at that level in the Championship with Charlton and Bournemouth.


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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by West Stand Man » 02 Sep 2017 06:14

Lower West
Hound TBH, think a bit too much is made of Yann's age generally. No real reason if you can do the job he did last year at 35 he can't at 36. Clearly looks after himself, and sports science etc is so good nowadays



Doing a job isn't enough. If the aim is promotion.


If the job is 'do what we need to get promotion' then doing it is certainly enough. More would be a bonus.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Hound » 02 Sep 2017 07:50

Maneki Neko But the likelihood is that 1year older will equal x amount fewer games/goals


It may but not sure that an extra 12 months older at that age really makes much difference

Do accept it may be harder to come from a nasty injury at 35 though

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Royalwaster » 02 Sep 2017 09:14

I think we'll really struggled against very defensive teams without a strong no9 striker - otherwise there are plenty of goals in this team. Although of course we'd be better off if we had a proper finisher up top ....

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Nameless » 02 Sep 2017 10:57

I think we are much better equipped to break down ultra defensive teams now. So many more pacy, skilful players to break down obstinate defences.
The way we played against an ultra defensive Villa was tactically spot on.
We've got many more options this season and given that Stam used 3 or 4 different systems last year it will be interesting how much change we see this year from game to game.


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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by From Despair To Where? » 02 Sep 2017 11:18

Nameless I think we are much better equipped to break down ultra defensive teams now. So many more pacy, skilful players to break down obstinate defences.
The way we played against an ultra defensive Villa was tactically spot on.
We've got many more options this season and given that Stam used 3 or 4 different systems last year it will be interesting how much change we see this year from game to game.


That's the key. If we break down the defences and get the service into the box then I'm confident that Mendes and Bid have enough about them to get shots on target.

Without decent service, even the best strikers will struggle to score goals. Get the service right and an average striker will score their share.

Stam has built the squad the back. We have a decent keeper, the defence took shape last season and Stam has worked on the midfield in this window.

I think we can expect a striker over the next couple of windows.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Millsy » 02 Sep 2017 11:33

From Despair To Where?
That's the key. If we break down the defences and get the service into the box then I'm confident that Mendes and Bid have enough about them to get shots on target.

Without decent service, even the best strikers will struggle to score goals. Get the service right and an average striker will score their share.



Good point actually.

Decent service/chances creeated and average strikers >>>> mediocre service/chances and amazing strikers

Create enough chances and my nan will end up putting one in.

Probably why striker success rate seems so dependent on the team they're playing in eg/ Vydra

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Sep 2017 13:02

From Despair To Where?
Nameless I think we are much better equipped to break down ultra defensive teams now. So many more pacy, skilful players to break down obstinate defences.
The way we played against an ultra defensive Villa was tactically spot on.
We've got many more options this season and given that Stam used 3 or 4 different systems last year it will be interesting how much change we see this year from game to game.


That's the key. If we break down the defences and get the service into the box then I'm confident that Mendes and Bid have enough about them to get shots on target.

Without decent service, even the best strikers will struggle to score goals. Get the service right and an average striker will score their share.

Stam has built the squad the back. We have a decent keeper, the defence took shape last season and Stam has worked on the midfield in this window.

I think we can expect a striker over the next couple of windows.

So far we seem to be scoring a lot from around the edge of the box, midfielders picking up second balls or engineering a hint of space thanks to the passing and constant pressure.

I think the players around Bod / Kermie / Mendes will get a lot of our goals this year. Your Barrows, Popas, Bacunas, Kellys.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Millsy » 12 Sep 2017 10:43

Ok.

So on the basis of the Bristol disaster it would seem the idea of a striker is not flawed, and in truth much as I love Stam I'm feeling angry that he and Tevreden put so much effort into bringing in sooo many midfielders and relatively little effort was put into bringing in at least one goalscorer. Yes they're hard to come by but where there's a will there's a way, and if you spend £millions on 7 new players and not one proven goalscorer then there clearly were funds and a lot of time an effort available, which were seemingly poorly apportioned (yes they did try with Oliveira and Hemed etc but it clearly wasn't enough).

Will see what happens over the course of the season but I'd like to believe there is a plan and if that pan is total football without a reliance on a proven goalscorer then so be it.

I'm watching this space.


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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Forbury Lion » 12 Sep 2017 13:34

A top club which can afford 2 or 3 of the best attacking midfielders around doesn't need a striker. Man Utd when they had Ronaldo, Giggs and Scholes could have got by without a striker if they were supplemented by Keane and someone else in midfield.

Probably half of it is having really good attacking midfielders and the other half is having really good defensive midfielders to cover for them.
At Championship level I'm not sure you will necessarily find good enough players to carry off a no striker formation.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Sep 2017 17:57

2 world wars, 1 world cup Ok.

So on the basis of the Bristol disaster it would seem the idea of a striker is not flawed, and in truth much as I love Stam I'm feeling angry that he and Tevreden put so much effort into bringing in sooo many midfielders and relatively little effort was put into bringing in at least one goalscorer. Yes they're hard to come by but where there's a will there's a way, and if you spend £millions on 7 new players and not one proven goalscorer then there clearly were funds and a lot of time an effort available, which were seemingly poorly apportioned (yes they did try with Oliveira and Hemed etc but it clearly wasn't enough).

Will see what happens over the course of the season but I'd like to believe there is a plan and if that pan is total football without a reliance on a proven goalscorer then so be it.

I'm watching this space.

Out of interest, how can you judge the effort put into signing different types of players?

Especially seeing as we reportedly put in two or three bids for Hemed, Oliviera, and Hugill, plus bid for that Dutch bloke and were interested in Wells until the extent of his injury became apparent.

I get the feeling you're judging effort based on success in making a signing. Which, lets face it, is a bit simple.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by genome » 12 Sep 2017 18:45

It's been ONE GAME since the transfer window closed

I mean, come on

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Millsy » 28 Sep 2017 18:56

Snowflake Royal
2 world wars, 1 world cup Ok.

So on the basis of the Bristol disaster it would seem the idea of a striker is not flawed, and in truth much as I love Stam I'm feeling angry that he and Tevreden put so much effort into bringing in sooo many midfielders and relatively little effort was put into bringing in at least one goalscorer. Yes they're hard to come by but where there's a will there's a way, and if you spend £millions on 7 new players and not one proven goalscorer then there clearly were funds and a lot of time an effort available, which were seemingly poorly apportioned (yes they did try with Oliveira and Hemed etc but it clearly wasn't enough).

Will see what happens over the course of the season but I'd like to believe there is a plan and if that pan is total football without a reliance on a proven goalscorer then so be it.

I'm watching this space.

Out of interest, how can you judge the effort put into signing different types of players?

Especially seeing as we reportedly put in two or three bids for Hemed, Oliviera, and Hugill, plus bid for that Dutch bloke and were interested in Wells until the extent of his injury became apparent.

I get the feeling you're judging effort based on success in making a signing. Which, lets face it, is a bit simple.


It's a simple way of looking at it, and yes of course you're right we just don't know. Perhaps as I believe they should have done they dedicated 80% of their time, resources scouting and brainpower into looking to confidently sign two proven goalscorers, with perhaps one or two promising/younger goalscorers, with two or three plan Bs in case things didn't work out. And perhaps we put 15% into a keeper and managed to do it. And the remaining 5% into a midfielder that we didn't really need to replace. And perhaps by some utterly freak bizarre set of circumstances we happened to just be inundated with absolute bargain of the century midfielders we just couldn't refuse, and every avenue we went down for a striker somehow mysteriously closed at the last second. Yeah that's always possible and we just don't know.

But it's also a bit simple to look at the FACTS and see that given we physically signed (and were linked with - even on transfer deadline day!!!) loads of non-goalscoring attacking players/midfielders, and we were linked 3 or 4 strikers NONE of which materialised, and decide that "oh well we were linked with a few names so they must've had the priority on strikers and got unlucky" or "ah, there just aren't any around". There are many teams in many leagues in England let alone Ireland, Scotland, Wales, abroad etc etc... There are proven goalscorers in all of them. There are Vardys, Kitsons, Longs, Doyles all over the place. To simply link yourselves with 2 or 3 "off the shelf" strikers is unforgiveable given the ABSOLUTE DESPERATION that was clear to everyone that we get at least a couple of proven goalscorers. And what about loans? We didn't try hard enough. And for that I am fuming. Sounds too cliche and too obvious to point out, but sometimes things are cliche and obvious because they are actually just blatantly true and obvious.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Ascotexgunner » 28 Sep 2017 19:57

Looking at the dutch national team, total football is sooooo yesterday.
Predatory strikers are soooooo in.

Unfortunately we are incredibly unfashionable and the displays, lack of goals, and possession with no end product proves that with our showing this season.

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Hound » 28 Sep 2017 20:24

Was it in fashion when we came third last year then?

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Re: Is the idea of a striker flawed? Does Stam believe in total football?

by Jimbo » 28 Sep 2017 20:49

We came third last year with our top goalscorer being a striker.
The idea of not having a specialist forward is sadly proving to be very flawed. Yes we have exciting pacy midfielders, but none of them has a history of banging in the goals.
Look at the most successful teams and their highest goalscorers over the last couple of years, Aguero, Kane, Lukaku, Costa, Vardy, Wood, Murray! None of these players are midfielders.

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