MATCHWATCH : Charlton Athletic (a)

[YorkshireRoyal99]

And these mistakes are bad, as they are costing us points. At the end of the day, the table doesn't lie and we'd still be in the bottom 4 even without the points deductions. I'm not saying it's all on them, the manager takes a fair share of the blame and I'm sure the overall situation at the club isn't helping and I'm wanting to think that we aren't as bad as results are suggesting, but how long before we say that maybe the players aren't that good after all?

Case in point, Charlie Savage was at Forest Green last season and Harvey Knibbs at Cambridge, who were both at the bottom end of L1, they are in a very similar situation again ands both look quite average in our team.

That doesn't tell the full story. Savage is a Man Utd academy product who was getting his first senior football experience. He is highly rated and on the fringes of the Wales squad. Knibbs and Smith were 2 of Cambridge's best performers - a bit like saying Swift is shit because he spent so maybe years battling relegation with us. Wing has an excellent L1 record.

Bowen did a good job building this squad; the off field situation and Selles's incompetence is making them underperform grossly. Off field stability and a reasonable manager and it's a top half squad in my view.

Swift was an outstanding individual player though for ourselves, Knibbs and Savage haven't really been. Is being on the fringes of the Wales squad that much of an achievement seen as they regularly have players in this division in their squads?

For the record, I do hope/think that the clubs situation isn't helping matters and I don't (want) to believe they are as bad as the table is suggesting currently, although how long before we come to the conclusion that most might be?

[Snowflake Royal]

And these mistakes are bad, as they are costing us points. At the end of the day, the table doesn't lie and we'd still be in the bottom 4 even without the points deductions. I'm not saying it's all on them, the manager takes a fair share of the blame and I'm sure the overall situation at the club isn't helping and I'm wanting to think that we aren't as bad as results are suggesting, but how long before we say that maybe the players aren't that good after all?

Case in point, Charlie Savage was at Forest Green last season and Harvey Knibbs at Cambridge, who were both at the bottom end of L1, they are in a very similar situation again ands both look quite average in our team.

How long? When they are experienced and no longer look good. So probably about halfway through next season.

Knibbs isn't a youth player. He has no excuses.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Blooding young players into senior football is tough. Throw them into a toxic environment with a stupid formation (plus being out of position for Binden) and they're unlikely to hack it unless they have a mentality and maturity beyond their years, which is what's setting Abbey apart.

It will take some of these guys years to recover from this, if they ever do at all. Just look at Holmes who looked perfectly fine in the Championship in 2021. You need luck to have a good football career as well as ability.

But to say they're young and point at off pitch issues gives Selles a free pass. There is experience in this squad too, and he consistently sets the team up to fail. He can definitely do better, and he is showing no signs of learning.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

There is no pass for Selles, he's been just as bad as the rest recently. Although I don't think it's just him, I think it's more a combination of Selles, the clubs situation and the players. I'm not pointing at solely just the academy players either, maybe just the squad in general isn't that good.

[WestYorksRoyal]

I think basic, simple stuff could bring a big change from this squad. 433/4231 or 532 with players in positions that suit them and clear roles would be enough. We have enough quality that the extra confidence and familiarity would make the difference.

Selles out and Hunt / Bowen in could have us out of the bottom 4 by Christmas and finishing 15th or so in my view. We're not being outplayed; we're capitulating which comes back to how the manager has set the team up. The squad is good enough.

[South Coast Royal]

Just a few points .

Azeez is now 22, has played over 40 league games for our first team and scored 2 goals.

Secondly I think that the formation is overstated as being the reason for our lack of success-football is about players and formation is just a minor consideration.
It's not the system that has put us where we are, it's the players and the coaching and treatment (e.g NGW, Carroll, Holmes etc) of those players by the manager that have played a big part in where we find ourselves.

Knibbs and Azeez for example are really part of a 4-4-2 but unfortunately they don't do much in creating or defending so not only are they contributing little at the attacking end of the pitch but also they do little in successful back-tracking.
Coppell wouldn't have accepted their contributions, just as he didn't with James Henry playing there.

We can't sign anybody so the players just have to work harder and both they and the manager can't go on about inexperience-these young players have youth and energy on their side and they need to use that energy more.
At this stage if the manager can't get that out of them then a different manager might see it as an opportunity to prove him (or her) self even with the current restrictions as they (managers-in-waiting) all appear to have great self belief if not much else.

[NathStPaul]

Just a few points .

Azeez is now 22, has played over 40 league games for our first team and scored 2 goals.

Secondly I think that the formation is overstated as being the reason for our lack of success-football is about players and formation is just a minor consideration.
It's not the system that has put us where we are, it's the players and the coaching and treatment (e.g NGW, Carroll, Holmes etc) of those players by the manager that have played a big part in where we find ourselves.

Knibbs and Azeez for example are really part of a 4-4-2 but unfortunately they don't do much in creating or defending so not only are they contributing little at the attacking end of the pitch but also they do little in successful back-tracking.
Coppell wouldn't have accepted their contributions, just as he didn't with James Henry playing there.

We can't sign anybody so the players just have to work harder and both they and the manager can't go on about inexperience-these young players have youth and energy on their side and they need to use that energy more.
At this stage if the manager can't get that out of them then a different manager might see it as an opportunity to prove him (or her) self even with the current restrictions as they (managers-in-waiting) all appear to have great self belief if not much else.

Good points raised here.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Just a few points .

Azeez is now 22, has played over 40 league games for our first team and scored 2 goals.

Secondly I think that the formation is overstated as being the reason for our lack of success-football is about players and formation is just a minor consideration.
It's not the system that has put us where we are, it's the players and the coaching and treatment (e.g NGW, Carroll, Holmes etc) of those players by the manager that have played a big part in where we find ourselves.

Knibbs and Azeez for example are really part of a 4-4-2 but unfortunately they don't do much in creating or defending so not only are they contributing little at the attacking end of the pitch but also they do little in successful back-tracking.
Coppell wouldn't have accepted their contributions, just as he didn't with James Henry playing there.

We can't sign anybody so the players just have to work harder and both they and the manager can't go on about inexperience-these young players have youth and energy on their side and they need to use that energy more.
At this stage if the manager can't get that out of them then a different manager might see it as an opportunity to prove him (or her) self even with the current restrictions as they (managers-in-waiting) all appear to have great self belief if not much else.

Good points raised here.

Azeez and Knibbs are not tracking back because they are not being asked to do it. Similarly, Coppell's wingers created as they had a simple brief to take on full backs and deliver crosses as much as possible. What are they being asked to do now? The manager is to blame.

[NathStPaul]

Just a few points .

Azeez is now 22, has played over 40 league games for our first team and scored 2 goals.

Secondly I think that the formation is overstated as being the reason for our lack of success-football is about players and formation is just a minor consideration.
It's not the system that has put us where we are, it's the players and the coaching and treatment (e.g NGW, Carroll, Holmes etc) of those players by the manager that have played a big part in where we find ourselves.

Knibbs and Azeez for example are really part of a 4-4-2 but unfortunately they don't do much in creating or defending so not only are they contributing little at the attacking end of the pitch but also they do little in successful back-tracking.
Coppell wouldn't have accepted their contributions, just as he didn't with James Henry playing there.

We can't sign anybody so the players just have to work harder and both they and the manager can't go on about inexperience-these young players have youth and energy on their side and they need to use that energy more.
At this stage if the manager can't get that out of them then a different manager might see it as an opportunity to prove him (or her) self even with the current restrictions as they (managers-in-waiting) all appear to have great self belief if not much else.

Good points raised here.

Azeez and Knibbs are not tracking back because they are not being asked to do it. Similarly, Coppell's wingers created as they had a simple brief to take on full backs and deliver crosses as much as possible. What are they being asked to do now? The manager is to blame.

Or are they not capable of doing so? Are they lazy? You don't know for sure, you can't be certain.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Good points raised here.

Azeez and Knibbs are not tracking back because they are not being asked to do it. Similarly, Coppell's wingers created as they had a simple brief to take on full backs and deliver crosses as much as possible. What are they being asked to do now? The manager is to blame.

Or are they not capable of doing so? Are they lazy? You don't know for sure, you can't be certain.

True, but I know that 4-2-2-2 implies a lack of width, 2 DMs with defensive responsibility and 2 with more attacking licence. So is it any surprise that central attacking midfielders are not supporting their full backs?

[Clyde1998]

I'm surprised you didn't get the train! particularly if you live in the middle of Reading. I didn't know the coach broke down! where was that? did you get sent a replacement or did they fix it?

It's not a surprise it's getting toxic. It's not the players fault, it's all because of Dai. But I get why people are slating them as well, in the heat of the moment when your teams getting thrashed and capitulating after a solid first half you're going to feel angry and need to vent it on something. It should be on Dai though and some of it on Selles, not the youngsters.

I live in Thatcham - which means it would make more sense to take the train to London games! I'm a bit sceptical about relying on trains at the moment though, as I don't trust there isn't going to be a strike announced and have to come up with an alternative plan at very short notice - especially with me not being able to drive due to health issues. Typically the coaches guarantee I'll get to the ground.

We stopped near Bagshot on the dual carriageway before getting on the M3. We heard a load bang around Bracknell, which I initially thought was a tyre bursting, but as we continued driving I assumed we simply ran over something like a loose manhole cover. Apparently the coach had gone into a recovery mode - which would allow the coach to be driven to a safe stopping point, but with reduced power. I'm guessing something like a drive belt snapped.

Being near Bagshot, it wasn't too far for another coach to arrive. I believe their main depot is in the industrial estate on the other side of the A33 to the stadium; they did have to call a driver to drive it to us and stay with the damaged coach. Because there were three coaches and spare seats on the working two, that allowed about half our coach to get onto those coaches. That left twenty-three of us on the broken down coach, while we waited for an alternative.

They had two coaches that were trying to get to us - one twenty-two seat coach (which was already on the M25, presumably returning from a completed trip) and one sixty-one seat coach. If only the twenty-two seater could get to us in time, they would've put someone in a taxi and charged Horseman Coaches for the fare. The sixty-one seater would've picked us up from the ground to get back. The larger coach was what turned up. We had two hours to get to the ground at that point: easily done in a car, but coaches are limited to 60 mph and facing traffic near the ground close to kick-off - but we just about made it.

I understand people getting angry in the heat of the moment. As you say, it should be directed at the right target though - and that's not the youngsters.

[Snowflake Royal]

Good points raised here.

Azeez and Knibbs are not tracking back because they are not being asked to do it. Similarly, Coppell's wingers created as they had a simple brief to take on full backs and deliver crosses as much as possible. What are they being asked to do now? The manager is to blame.

Or are they not capable of doing so? Are they lazy? You don't know for sure, you can't be certain.

There is nothing lazy about Knibbs

[Sutekh]

Azeez and Knibbs are not tracking back because they are not being asked to do it. Similarly, Coppell's wingers created as they had a simple brief to take on full backs and deliver crosses as much as possible. What are they being asked to do now? The manager is to blame.

Or are they not capable of doing so? Are they lazy? You don't know for sure, you can't be certain.

There is nothing lazy about Knibbs

This is what I'm not sure about what this ridiculous 4-2-2-2 is all about, it leaves the team extremely narrow with an over reliance on the full backs to be up the pitch to create and push the game onto the opponents. However all the opposition seem to do is simply stick the ball in the spaces behind the full/wing (whatever you want to call them) backs leaving them both compromised and knackered and the defence all over the place trying to cover the holes.

[Snowflake Royal]

There's a reason that through the years 4-4-2 has been popular.

It's simple, it's fairly rigid and everyone's responsibilities and play is fairly clearly defined.

Unfortunately, we now have a generation of coaches who all want to play like Barcelona or Real Madrid and are incapable of recognising that to play any form of fluid total football, your players need to be excellent decision makers, fairly smart, and significantly better than most of your opposition, when this simply isn't the case outside the top 6 or 7 clubs in the country.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Or are they not capable of doing so? Are they lazy? You don't know for sure, you can't be certain.

There is nothing lazy about Knibbs

This is what I'm not sure about what this ridiculous 4-2-2-2 is all about, it leaves the team extremely narrow with an over reliance on the full backs to be up the pitch to create and push the game onto the opponents. However all the opposition seem to do is simply stick the ball in the spaces behind the full/wing (whatever you want to call them) backs leaving them both compromised and knackered and the defence all over the place trying to cover the holes.

I do wonder if it is an issue of execution somehow or Selles expects the full backs to get more cover. Because if not, it's leaving a very obvious weakness that would be exposed in Sunday league, let alone professional football. Surely no manager is that stupid?

[Hound]

With Femi Azeez on the pitch we're never going to score. He's shit

Don't worry it'll all change when Smith is back

I'm truly shocked that he hasn’t instantly solved everything in his first 55mins after being out for two and a half months with not much pre-season, and no warm up games before starting.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Or are they not capable of doing so? Are they lazy? You don't know for sure, you can't be certain.

There is nothing lazy about Knibbs

This is what I'm not sure about what this ridiculous 4-2-2-2 is all about, it leaves the team extremely narrow with an over reliance on the full backs to be up the pitch to create and push the game onto the opponents. However all the opposition seem to do is simply stick the ball in the spaces behind the full/wing (whatever you want to call them) backs leaving them both compromised and knackered and the defence all over the place trying to cover the holes.

People putting far too much emphasis on the formation, rather than the system itself. Perhaps our pressing traps are wrong, or not being done correctly? Allowing teams to play percentage balls into awkward areas under little pressure, or maybe the midfielders don't work hard enough to cover the spaces left by full backs? That's not to say this is the case, more just an example of the point being made.

[Royal_jimmy]

When the players aren't knowingly confident whether they will get paid you also can't blame them for our results either

[Snowflake Royal]

There is nothing lazy about Knibbs

This is what I'm not sure about what this ridiculous 4-2-2-2 is all about, it leaves the team extremely narrow with an over reliance on the full backs to be up the pitch to create and push the game onto the opponents. However all the opposition seem to do is simply stick the ball in the spaces behind the full/wing (whatever you want to call them) backs leaving them both compromised and knackered and the defence all over the place trying to cover the holes.

People putting far too much emphasis on the formation, rather than the system itself. Perhaps our pressing traps are wrong, or not being done correctly? Allowing teams to play percentage balls into awkward areas under little pressure, or maybe the midfielders don't work hard enough to cover the spaces left by full backs? That's not to say this is the case, more just an example of the point being made.

The formation is just short hand for the system.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

This is what I'm not sure about what this ridiculous 4-2-2-2 is all about, it leaves the team extremely narrow with an over reliance on the full backs to be up the pitch to create and push the game onto the opponents. However all the opposition seem to do is simply stick the ball in the spaces behind the full/wing (whatever you want to call them) backs leaving them both compromised and knackered and the defence all over the place trying to cover the holes.

People putting far too much emphasis on the formation, rather than the system itself. Perhaps our pressing traps are wrong, or not being done correctly? Allowing teams to play percentage balls into awkward areas under little pressure, or maybe the midfielders don't work hard enough to cover the spaces left by full backs? That's not to say this is the case, more just an example of the point being made.

The formation is just short hand for the system.

They are not the same thing though, as every manager says. 4-4-2 or 4-2-2-2 you're talking a difference of 5 yards in terms of set up on paper, we could play a 4-4-2 which would make us no better whatsoever because that's not what the system is.