The Snowball stat thread

[Extended-Phenotype]

I just think it's important to monitor the team, not a hand-picked selection of players.

Pearce and Hunt are currently more creative than our central midfielders. Relaying stats which miss them out because they play in a position deamed unworthy by the researcher is all rather misleading.

[Svlad Cjelli]

90 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 90 Minutes 1 Goals 0 Assists EL-ABD (Brighton)

[Extended-Phenotype]

That. Is. Genius.

[Wimb]

Once again, if you don't agree with his stupid stats then don't read them.

Goals and assists are available on the official site.

Trying to get Snowball to concede that his methods of analysis are flawed is as flawed as the stats themselves, it just won't happen.

[melonhead]

not interested in him conceding anything, i was just saying that they were flawed, and why

[Wimb]

not interested in him conceding anything, i was just saying that they were flawed, and why

Think the majority of people/everyone bar one person agrees with you there

[melonhead]

unfortunately ive never been one to pass up a plus 1

[Snowball]

They keep reading the threads though...

[Snowball]

the OS gives McAnuff 4 assists

why has he only got two on your list?

On January 2nd I wrote:

Trawled through Yes, Alf has four


But tho' the OS gives McAnuff 4 assists I can only find 2.

Morrison's goal at Charlton came after a McAnuff corner (and the OS gives the assist)
but it seems to be a loose ball...

======

Note the above. Sometimes the OS will give an assist of X has hit a corner over, even if the ball
has been pinging round in the box.

[Snowball]

The OS is horribly wrong. Just checked

These are Assists where the assist is actually described

1 Mills
1 Tabb
1 Cummings
2 Karacan
3 HRK
4 Hunt
4 McAnuff
4 Harte
5 Alf
7 Kebe


and this is their stat listing

Mills 1
Tabb 1
Cummings 0
Karacan 2
HRK 3
Hunt 1
McAnuff 8
Harte 4
Alf 3
Kebe 6




Griffin 1
Elwood 1


32


Goals Assists Contrib
Church Alf Doncaster
Church Alf Coventry
Kebe Alf Cardiff
Hunt Alf Elwood Ipswich
Church Alf W Ham
Manset Cummings Bristol
Hunt Harte Leicester
Gorks Harte Ipswich
Pearce Harte Ipswich
Church Harte W Ham
Alf HRK Bristol
Alf HRK Derby
Kebe HRK
HRK (p) Hunt Barnsley
Karacan Hunt Burnley
HRK Hunt Peterboro
Alf Hunt
Alf Karacan Church Derby
Church Karacan Leeds
Manset Kebe Millwall
HRK Kebe Leicester
Church Kebe Harte Peterboro
Alf Kebe Harte Peterboro
McAnuff Kebe Brighton
El-Abd OG Kebe Brighton
MCAnuff Kebe Cardiff
Elwood McAnuff Saints
Hunt McAnuff Birmingham
Pearce McAnuff W Ham Harte X
Pearce McAnuff Ipswich
Alf Mills Doncaster
Manset Solo Millwall
McAnuff Solo Church Brighton
McAnuff Tabb Bristol

[who are ya?]

Zzzzzz

[Snowball]

Update after WATFORD


Bold Figure is Minutes per Major Contribution (Goal or Assist)



Church drops down, HRK moves up, Kebe solidifies his place


1,447 Minutes 11 Major Contributions one every 131 Minutes 6 Goals 5 Assists ALF (RFC Games) CHECKED

1,402 Minutes 09 Major Contributions one every 156 Minutes 2 Goals 7 Assists KEBE CHECKED
1,090 Minutes 06 Major Contributions one every 181 Minutes 3 Goals 3 Assists HRK 1 ASSIST ADDED
1,316 Minutes 06 Major Contributions one every 190 Minutes 3 Goals 4 Assists HUNT 1 ASSIST ADDED
1,347 Minutes 07 Major Contributions one every 194 Minutes 6 Goals 1 Assists CHURCH DEFLECTION TO MCANUFF GOAL


2,112 Minutes 08 Major Contributions one every 264 Minutes 4 Goals 4 Assists McAnuff CHECKED
1,608 Minutes 03 Major Contributions one every 536 Minutes 1 Goals 2 Assists KARACAN 1 ASSIST REMOVED


Transfer MKT list this assist as Karacan's

RFC 1-2 Cardiff
Reading had a response within a few minutes though, Adam Le Fondre putting in a great cross that Kebe headed home well as Marshall was caught cold.

Another one. v Peterboro?

Transfer MKT doesn't give the assist


The only full assists I don't have direct evidence for are:

Manset - (Cummings) at Brizzle
Manset - v Millwall (I say it was a solo goal)

And I gave an assist to Alf for this (this is the only one debatable)

Finally it paid off. A high ball over the top saw Le Fondre challenge with Sullivan.
The Rovers keeper spilled the ball as a result and Church reacted quickest to race onto the loose ball and tap into a gaping net.


God knows where they get 8 assists for McAnuff

[Snowball]

Still, if U reckon McAnuff has had 8 assists, U could always list them?

I found these

Elwood McAnuff Saints FT
Hunt McAnuff Birmingham FT
Pearce McAnuff W Ham FT
Pearce McAnuff Ipswich FT

[rfc2001]

Who cares about stats!! We know who contributes and who does NOT!!


These players should be shoved out the door

Church

[Hoop Blah]

Still, if U reckon McAnuff has had 8 assists, U could always list them?

I found these

Elwood McAnuff Saints FT
Hunt McAnuff Birmingham FT
Pearce McAnuff W Ham FT
Pearce McAnuff Ipswich FT

See now you perhaps you're getting an idea of why some of us don't put quite so much weight against the stats and their use for football. Those official stats for McAnuff's assists are the same source that I think you took as gospel for supporting Harte and Long at various times but now they're shown up to be questionable and not the FACTS that you'd present them as at other times.

These assists stats, pass complettion rates etc, are just the recording of someones perception of events within a game. They're open for error as much as anything else really.

As for trawling match reports for assist records, that really depends on how accurate their reporting is. I think we came to the conclusion last season with the 'attacking free kicks' debacle that you can't rely on the text commentry or match reports to give a very balanced, impartial or accurate reflection of what happens on the pitch.

Keep your own stats by all means, but don't expect too much credit for putting them out there quite so much when they're obviously a little flawed and questionable.

[Wycombe Royal]

See now you perhaps you're getting an idea of why some of us don't put quite so much weight against the stats and their use for football. Those official stats for McAnuff's assists are the same source that I think you took as gospel for supporting Harte and Long at various times but now they're shown up to be questionable and not the FACTS that you'd present them as at other times.

Exactly hence why I posted this a couple of days ago:

But we know that Snowball will just use the stats/fact that illustrate the point he is trying to make, regardless of whether they are correct or relevant.

[Snowball]

Let's see if I have this right.

A few criticise my stats because the OS has different stats.

Then I deal with those errors on the OS, so now, I'm still criticised
because the OS stats are dodgy anyway?



The I get criticised EVEN WHEN I EXPLAIN a specific "assist" or major contribution
and then I'm told that there is subjectivity or mistakes. Wow, I didn't know that!




The point is, if (for example me) someone says, "I think Xxxxx deserves/gets an assist for Yyyyy's goal"
either you agree or disagree, or don't give an assist at all, or award the assist to someone else. What
exactly is the PROBLEM?

These are my stats, as I see them. These interminable stupidomoans are pointless. They change nothing.

It's not as if I have made guesses. The goals-assists are listed and discussed.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I enjoyed the term 'stupidomoans'.

The rest was gay.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I've not criticised the accuracy of your stats.

I've consistently criticised the fact that they're pointless, because they measure so little and don't take any account of context. Individual contributions like this might be worthwhile in baseball or cricket, which is much more of an individual game, but are meaningless in a team game where so much happens.

As an example again, under your stats a player who plays for 88 minutes and tires out an opposition defence is worthless, but the player who comes on and scores against that tired defence is worth so much more to the team.

Or the player who constantly makes runs to create space and take defenders out of position, from which someone else scores, gets no credit, whilst the two people who touched the ball last get all the credit.

I'll put the last bit in large font as that seems to be the way to show you really think something on planet Snowball :
Individual stats like these, based on so few metrics, are meaningless for a team game like football. To ascribe them the emphasis and importance that you consistently do shows a basic lack of understanding of what sort of game football is.

[Extended-Phenotype]

under your stats a player who plays for 88 minutes and tires out an opposition defence is worthless, but the player who comes on and scores against that tired defence is worth so much more to the team.

Sounds like a lame-ass stealth attempt to defend Simon Church to me.