Worst attacking options since January 2000

[Hoop Blah]

I don't like to call that part instinct it's hard work from a young age and muscle memory that puts it in the net at the end of the day. A lot of so called instinctive finishes aren't really instinct at all. It just sounds special to call them that.

I'm not sure who's post your aiming that at as you've basically repeated what everyone else has said.

You can just about develop the physical technique for the range of touches and finishes perhaps, but the instinct and composure to be in the right place and apply it is something that you either have or don't.

[ZacNaloen]

I'll say it again then,

Using the word instinct to describe someone with good spacial reasoning is a lazy descriptor and I don't like to use it as it gives the impression the person who has this skill didn't have to work hard to get the best of it.

I.e I was nit picking, and will continue to do so as its a bug bear of mine.

[brendywendy]

they probably are our worst strikers since 2000, but then you need to consider that we have been blessed with some great strikers in that time. probably more than we are entitled to.

[papereyes]

I actually think I agree with Zac here.

But with the caveat that coaching turns a natural instinct into something the player can use time and time again. I'd call it intelligence but that seems to get the old school football fans frothing.

[ZacNaloen]

The only actual human instinct that matters in football is fight or flight, and in that sense it's your ability to suppress fight or flight that benefits your game so you can't really call that an instinctual ability either.

[Hoop Blah]

I'll say it again then,

Using the word instinct to describe someone with good spacial reasoning is a lazy descriptor and I don't like to use it as it gives the impression the person who has this skill didn't have to work hard to get the best of it.

I.e I was nit picking, and will continue to do so as its a bug bear of mine.

Some peoples brains just seem to be wired right just so they have the spacial awareness to be in the right place and not panic.

I direct everyone to Hernandez at Man U and a younger Michael Owen.

That awareness is what puts them in the right place and it's definitely not something that can be learnt. It's talent in the truest sense.

Genuine question though, I'm not sure I can see the distinction between 'talent in the truest sense' that is ' definitely not something that can be learnt' and what is being referred to as an instinct.

I may well be missing something here though, but I'm sure it'll be down to some finite semantic point in the language....or a glaring misread by me!

[Hoop Blah]

The only actual human instinct that matters in football is fight or flight, and in that sense it's your ability to suppress fight or flight that benefits your game so you can't really call that an instinctual ability either.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

I've played a lot of football and I can't remember a single time I've suppressed my fight or flight instinct because I've never encountered a 'flight' situation (unless you count be threatened with a slit throat etc which don't really count).

I'm guessing you might mean the moment you decide to make a challenge and over-ride the fear of getting hurt or the better judgement of the consequences of a fully committed challenge. If that's what you mean then fair enough, I just don't think it's the only instinct applied in football, certainly not when you get into the higher levels.

Those instincts can be honed, as I think paps has alluded to.

[ZacNaloen]

It's because Talent and Instinct aren't the same thing.


Instincts are hard wired and something that most animals have no control over, Talents are malleable and dependant on you using them.

For example a player with the ability to get into good positions has a brain which is capable of processing the information being taken in by his senses faster and use it to make more accurate predictions about play and therefore be in right place at the right time. This is a form of intelligence, not something that just anyone can learn. You have it or you don't.


But you aren't amazing at it the moment you step onto a football field, you need to understand the game to get the best of it, and you can only do that by playing it. Some people are just better, but to call it instinct is a misnomer.

Those instincts can be honed, as I think paps has alluded to.

You can't hone your instincts, you can only override them. And as far as we are aware humans are the only species that can do this.

[Hoop Blah]

Fair enough, so it was a semantics thing then.

For what it's worth, I think you're scientific definition of instinct overlooks the general use of the word and another accepted definition.

1. the innate capacity of an animal to respond to a given stimulus in a relatively fixed way
2. inborn intuitive power
3. a natural and apparently innate aptitude

or from a medical dictionary

- behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level

That aptitude is for the game, and an 'instinctive' pass is one that you'd make without really thinking because of that talent and the work you've put in to make that move instinctive, ie without concious decision. Does that not work?

That might not be to the truest scientific definition that you like to apply I suppose, but it is still the accepted use of the word isn't it? I mean by the rest of the slightly less anal non-scientific world?

[ZacNaloen]

I did warn you that I'm nitpicking.

[papereyes]

The only actual human instinct that matters in football is fight or flight, and in that sense it's your ability to suppress fight or flight that benefits your game so you can't really call that an instinctual ability either.

I'd conflate a natural 'talent' and 'instinct'.

[ZacNaloen]

But doing that annoys me

[Victor Meldrew]

Fair enough, so it was a semantics thing then.

For what it's worth, I think you're scientific definition of instinct overlooks the general use of the word and another accepted definition.

1. the innate capacity of an animal to respond to a given stimulus in a relatively fixed way
2. inborn intuitive power
3. a natural and apparently innate aptitude

or from a medical dictionary

- behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level

That aptitude is for the game, and an 'instinctive' pass is one that you'd make without really thinking because of that talent and the work you've put in to make that move instinctive, ie without concious decision. Does that not work?

That might not be to the truest scientific definition that you like to apply I suppose, but it is still the accepted use of the word isn't it? I mean by the rest of the slightly less anal non-scientific world?

You are a gluuton for punishment HB whether that be instinctive or by design,in fight or in flight by spending time discussing these matters with Snowball and now Zac.
Add in Spacey and you would have great time at a party discussing with(a) Snowball,(b) Zac and (c) Spacey

(a)Over a year how many drinks on average you have and how often before being
(1)Merry
(2)Half-pissed
(3)Legless
Shane Long and Ian Harte will obviously prove to be better drinkers statistically

(b)Whether what you have to drink is instinctive,predestined or the only drink available

(c)Why people drink French stuff and how do you spell Montbazillac,Courvoisier or Arsene Wenger?

[papereyes]

Add in Spacey and you would have great time at a party discussing with(a) Snowball,(b) Zac and (c) Spacey

LOLZ

[Hoop Blah]

Add in Spacey and you would have great time at a party discussing with(a) Snowball,(b) Zac and (c) Spacey

LOLZ

Sounds like a blast!

[Royalwaster]

Just looked at league table and noticed that we've got 2nd best defensive record in league (equal to Leeds) and only behind QPR.

[Snowball]

Just looked at league table and noticed that we've got 2nd best defensive record in league (equal to Leeds) and only behind QPR.

Is that a joke?


01 13 04 goals conceded 0.31 per gameQueens Park Rangers
02 13 11 goals conceded 0.85 per game Cardiff City
02 13 11 goals conceded 0.85 per game Reading

21 13 25 goals conceded 1.92 per game Leeds United

[Snowball]

error

[Mr Angry]

Flippin' heck Snowball; do you spend your waking hours trawling back through posts made 6 months ago, trying to find things to have a go at people over????



This is a football fans message board and forum, not Hansard!

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Agreed, edited as I looked back, that was in reply to a post in Sep 2009, when most would have said that Kebe was not all that effective, and McAnuff had not started a game for RFC.