Fielding "weakened" teams in the FA Cup

[Sun Tzu]

I just think that changing teams when not necessary is a dangerous thing-ask Benitez as he now has finally come to terms with the idea that playing your first team and winning regularly has a confidence boosting effect on players who in turn don't feel tired.
If those of you think that resting players is such a good thing I look forward to the 6-0 thrashing of a generally unrested Watford on Friday.

I guess there is the nub.....

Coppell believes it is necessary (and has often been criticised for the way he keeps faith with players !!). He's done exceptionally well using the policy he has advocated so it's not clear what danger you refer to. You are obviously suggesting Coppell does it for some ill thought out, frivolous reason although of course Coppell has more to lose than any of us if he gets things wrong.

The Benitez point is pretty much a red herring for the obvious reason that Coppell has never had a wholesale rotation policy.

You also assume the point of having a different team playing in the cup is entirely to rest the 'league' side which kind of ignore much of the rest of the thread !!

[Vision]

I cant speak for everyone else but ive never actually entered the resting players debate. For me its about seeing the youngsters and the fringe players. I don't recall Coppell saying players needed to be rested although no doubt there are a few that have played with knocks in recent weeks so he may have considered resting them as a good idea anyway.

I don't know why you keep mentioning Liverpool and Benitez. Whether you accept it or not he made changes to his starting line up for the recent cup game and when asked about Robbie Keane after the Newcastle game clearly mentioned the need for players to be rested. Somewhat at odds with what you seem to have convinced yourself.

As for Watford, i expect nothing less than 7. Anyone know if Atwell is reffing

[Victor Meldrew]

I just think that changing teams when not necessary is a dangerous thing-ask Benitez as he now has finally come to terms with the idea that playing your first team and winning regularly has a confidence boosting effect on players who in turn don't feel tired.
If those of you think that resting players is such a good thing I look forward to the 6-0 thrashing of a generally unrested Watford on Friday.

I guess there is the nub.....

Coppell believes it is necessary (and has often been criticised for the way he keeps faith with players !!). He's done exceptionally well using the policy he has advocated so it's not clear what danger you refer to. You are obviously suggesting Coppell does it for some ill thought out, frivolous reason although of course Coppell has more to lose than any of us if he gets things wrong.

The Benitez point is pretty much a red herring for the obvious reason that Coppell has never had a wholesale rotation policy.

You also assume the point of having a different team playing in the cup is entirely to rest the 'league' side which kind of ignore much of the rest of the thread !!

Generally Coppell has done very well for our club but (amongst other things such as not buying enough last January) you surely cannot argue that resting/looking at fringe players last season in cup games produced the end result that he and we wanted?

[Sun Tzu]

Generally Coppell has done very well for our club but (amongst other things such as not buying enough last January) you surely cannot argue that resting/looking at fringe players last season in cup games produced the end result that he and we wanted?

Why would I want to ?

Are you arguing that by not playing a full strength side in every cup game he brought about our relegation ?

If anything the performances in cup games could be argued to be high points in last season and perhaps he should have picked more of the 'cup' team in league games. Would you have been happy to see some of our under performers be given the chance to under perform in a couple more games to preserve some notion of 'integrity' or did you actually enjoy (for example) the games against Spurs ?

[Woodcote Royal]

I cant speak for everyone else but ive never actually entered the resting players debate. For me its about seeing the youngsters and the fringe players. I don't recall Coppell saying players needed to be rested although no doubt there are a few that have played with knocks in recent weeks so he may have considered resting them as a good idea anyway.

I think Coppell gains hugely from giving his squad players a chance in some competitive games (and I enjoy seeing them play just as much as you do) but I'm sure he was clear about the need to rest some players who are struggling with knocks in a 46 game league programme.

I would doubt that Doyle would ever be risked given his lack of effective strikers.

His priority has to be the league and he won't take many unnecessary risks in the cups...................that's the way it should be given our current circumstances.

[Royal Lady]

Putting out our reserves every season in cup games doesn't get us very far though, does it. I'd rather the club actually came out and admitted that they don't WANT to get very far in cup games.

Conversely, of course, in a season where we were battling to avoid relegation, we managed to win the Simod Cup - by using our first team players.

[Victor Meldrew]

I cant speak for everyone else but ive never actually entered the resting players debate. For me its about seeing the youngsters and the fringe players. I don't recall Coppell saying players needed to be rested although no doubt there are a few that have played with knocks in recent weeks so he may have considered resting them as a good idea anyway.

I don't know why you keep mentioning Liverpool and Benitez. Whether you accept it or not he made changes to his starting line up for the recent cup game and when asked about Robbie Keane after the Newcastle game clearly mentioned the need for players to be rested. Somewhat at odds with what you seem to have convinced yourself.

As for Watford, i expect nothing less than 7. Anyone know if Atwell is reffing

I thought Cisse and Harper were rested for the drawn game at Southampton and then rested again for the FA Cup.
Benitez this season has stuck much more to a regular side (other than for League Cup games) and there have never been 8 changes for a game as we did for the Cardiff game.
My view,shared by some others,is how can you judge players in such a disjointed set-up?

The reason I come back to Benitez is that he was heavily criticised for a rotation policy but now that he plays almost the same side week-in, week-out and makes the same subs at about the same time each game has brought about a consistency that has got Liverpool to where they are as genuine title challengers.
Coppell did his little bit of rotation for the Saints game with Cisse,Harper and Hunt and I believe it cost us 2 points which at the end of the season could mean the difference between success or failure.

Presumably Andy d'Urso will suggest to Coppell that we let Watford score on the grounds of fair play and of course being the strong ref that he is we will go along with it.
A re-think on Friday's scoreline I'll settle for a 1-0 win as I don't want the lads to get too tired with the next game due abroad 8 days later.

[Thaumagurist*]

Putting out our reserves every season in cup games doesn't get us very far though, does it. I'd rather the club actually came out and admitted that they don't WANT to get very far in cup games.

Hmm, well, we got to the fifth round in the FA Cup with that sort of team a couple of seasons ago.

Conversely, of course, in a season where we were battling to avoid relegation, we managed to win the Simod Cup - by using our first team players.

You sure? Dean Horrix wasn't really in the first team for most of that season. And when we played the final, Steve Moran and Billy whitehurst (considered as first choices at the time) were cup-tied....oh and Mick Tait, usually played in midfield, was playing up front!!

[Royal Rother]

I'd rather the club actually came out and admitted that they don't WANT to get very far in cup games.

You don't really believe that do you?

[Royal Lady]

Yes I do. If you want to progress further you use your best players. We never use our first team, ergo we don't want to progress further and want to "concentrate on our league position".

[Victor Meldrew]

Generally Coppell has done very well for our club but (amongst other things such as not buying enough last January) you surely cannot argue that resting/looking at fringe players last season in cup games produced the end result that he and we wanted?

Why would I want to ?

Are you arguing that by not playing a full strength side in every cup game he brought about our relegation ?

If anything the performances in cup games could be argued to be high points in last season and perhaps he should have picked more of the 'cup' team in league games. Would you have been happy to see some of our under performers be given the chance to under perform in a couple more games to preserve some notion of 'integrity' or did you actually enjoy (for example) the games against Spurs ?

Didn't go to any cup games last season and none since WBA away.
There is an argument to say that chopping and changing a team does not help when trying to get league points against the top teams in the country.
There is also an argument to say that Coppell continued to select players woefully out of form(Doyle,Shorey,Long etc) but that's another matter altogether.
BTW were you once "a one man band" if so it is good to debate with you again but if you aren't a bald and some might say overweight (not me of course) vertically challenged chap with our club's interest always at heart like me then you won't know what I am f****** talking about.

[Sun Tzu]

Why do these debates have to tend towards black and white ?

Is it so hard to understand that just because one thing is seen as more important than another it doesn't make the second thing unimportant ?

Drinking is more important than eating, but eating is still important.

And would those who suggest Coppell's tactics have meant our cup performances have suffered gives us a run down on our cup performances in the 5 years before Coppell took over (and yes, I do appreciate that we probably had a weaker team in those years....)

[Victor Meldrew]

Putting out our reserves every season in cup games doesn't get us very far though, does it. I'd rather the club actually came out and admitted that they don't WANT to get very far in cup games.

Hmm, well, we got to the fifth round in the FA Cup with that sort of team a couple of seasons ago.

Conversely, of course, in a season where we were battling to avoid relegation, we managed to win the Simod Cup - by using our first team players.

You sure? Dean Horrix wasn't really in the first team for most of that season. And when we played the final, Steve Moran and Billy whitehurst (considered as first choices at the time) were cup-tied....oh and Mick Tait, usually played in midfield, was playing up front!!

Spacey,
It's not a really big deal to get to the 5th round when you start at the 3rd is it?

[Royal Rother]

Yes I do. If you want to progress further you use your best players. We never use our first team, ergo we don't want to progress further and want to "concentrate on our league position".

to you too.

Coppell would love nothing better than to have seen the likes of Kelly, Sigurdsson, Henry, Convey, Gunarsson, Murty, Pearce, Long, Lita, Karacan et al win on Saturday - it would have given them something to really look forward to and train hard for despite being unlikely to get (m)any starts in the League.

Salary alone does not keep all players sharp, willing, focussed and ready for 1st team action so an FA Cup run would have been brilliant for them. (Plus putting 1 or 2 in the shop window...)

To suggest the club / Coppell would rather see us go out is just utter nonsense.

[Royal Lady]

I listened on the radio and even Tim Dellor was cross about it all. He mentioned on a number of occasions that the bench didn't even seem interested. Hardly sounded like Coppell et al were desperately hoping the younger players plus the likes of Murty etc would win in actual fact.

[Sun Tzu]

Yes I do. If you want to progress further you use your best players. We never use our first team, ergo we don't want to progress further and want to "concentrate on our league position".

Coppell must have given our 'reserves' real rollicking after they thumped Luton 5-1 then....

I think your comment sums up the 'black and white' position nicely.

Surely it is possible to want to progress but to want to maintain league performances even more ?

Do you never have to compromise in your life ?

[Sun Tzu]

BTW were you once "a one man band" if so it is good to debate with you again but if you aren't a bald and some might say overweight (not me of course) vertically challenged chap with our club's interest always at heart like me then you won't know what I am f****** talking about.

Not sure I can entirely pick the bones out of all that but I think you are right !!

And it's been a good discussion - proof that differing opinions do not have to lead to name calling (although reading your post again.... )

[Victor Meldrew]

Yes I do. If you want to progress further you use your best players. We never use our first team, ergo we don't want to progress further and want to "concentrate on our league position".

to you too.

Coppell would love nothing better than to have seen the likes of Kelly, Sigurdsson, Henry, Convey, Gunarsson, Murty, Pearce, Long, Lita, Karacan et al win on Saturday - it would have given them something to really look forward to and train hard for despite being unlikely to get (m)any starts in the League.

Salary alone does not keep all players sharp, willing, focussed and ready for 1st team action so an FA Cup run would have been brilliant for them. (Plus putting 1 or 2 in the shop window...)

To suggest the club / Coppell would rather see us go out is just utter nonsense.

How do you know how Coppell felt?
Maybe he said to himself "Phew,I was right all along, my best side really is the one I put out most weeks and there is nobody here that I would rather play instead-next I must speak to Nicky and the chairman about those new players that I would like to bring in. Next year I'll back my own judgement from what I see in training and in the reserves and not use cup games just to prove to myself I was right-why do I constantly question myself?
Why don't I just play my best side every week like I did so successfully at Palace and not listen to those twats who think that players need loads of rest and also think the game has moved on."

[Royal Lady]

Yes I do. If you want to progress further you use your best players. We never use our first team, ergo we don't want to progress further and want to "concentrate on our league position".

Coppell must have given our 'reserves' real rollicking after they thumped Luton 5-1 then....

I think your comment sums up the 'black and white' position nicely.

Surely it is possible to want to progress but to want to maintain league performances even more ?

Well obviously, because that's what's happening. My point is merely that either fans are informed well before buying their tickets/travel costs or whatever that we will be "concentrating on the league" or we give it a go and actually try and progress further! And to be honest, whether I have to make compromises in my life is somewhat a different subject to people being paid a lot of money to do their job, who, in the eyes of people paying to watch them, are not stepping up to the plate.

[Victor Meldrew]

BTW were you once "a one man band" if so it is good to debate with you again but if you aren't a bald and some might say overweight (not me of course) vertically challenged chap with our club's interest always at heart like me then you won't know what I am f****** talking about.

Not sure I can entirely pick the bones out of all that but I think you are right !!

And it's been a good discussion - proof that differing opinions do not have to lead to name calling (although reading your post again.... )

I thought it best to cut to the chase-as you know I am clearly not overweight,nor folically challenged and don't look old enough to have grand-children but having not seen you for about a year you might think that relegation has had a major effect on my appearance and demeanour when we meet up again.
Now ,as for that idot Pardew........................................
Sorry wrong time and place.