The table doesn't lie.

[Platypuss]

Good performances don't stop people on here having a go at Hahnemann, Shorey and (in some cases) Hunt.

What on earth has that got to do with Kanu, James and Campbell?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

but if you only allow your manager to pay "Championsip" wages, don't be surprised if all you can attract is that type of player.

we don't pay championship wages. De La Cruz is on £12000 a week, for example, and must be one of our lowest paid players in the first team squad. Typically players are on around £15000 to £25000, which isn't particularly low compared to the rest of the lower half clubs - and is miles ahead of championship clubs.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Good performances don't stop people on here having a go at Hahnemann, Shorey and (in some cases) Hunt.

As far as I'm aware, people only ever moan at players when they've played badly and that's fair enough. We're all more than happy to give them praise when we feel they've done well - see Matejovsky yesterday for example.

the problem is that players (and managers) have strengths and weaknesses. When things are going well, we tend to look at their good points and overlook their weak points. When things are going badly we focus too much on their bad points, and forget what good they can do.

[Royal Lady]

Good performances don't stop people on here having a go at Hahnemann, Shorey and (in some cases) Hunt.

As far as I'm aware, people only ever moan at players when they've played badly and that's fair enough. We're all more than happy to give them praise when we feel they've done well - see Matejovsky yesterday for example.

the problem is that players (and managers) have strengths and weaknesses. When things are going well, we tend to look at their good points and overlook their weak points. When things are going badly we focus too much on their bad points, and forget what good they can do.

To be fair, if we carry on like we have been, it will be difficult to remember any good points about a lot of these well paid players.

[rfc58]

but if you only allow your manager to pay "Championsip" wages, don't be surprised if all you can attract is that type of player.

we don't pay championship wages. De La Cruz is on £12000 a week, for example, and must be one of our lowest paid players in the first team squad. Typically players are on around £15000 to £25000, which isn't particularly low compared to the rest of the lower half clubs - and is miles ahead of championship clubs.

So you think the current wage structure is NOT the reason we fail to buy proven quality.

Rosenior aside, we have not been able to buy from another Prem side, others clubs around us don't have this problem.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

but if you only allow your manager to pay "Championsip" wages, don't be surprised if all you can attract is that type of player.

we don't pay championship wages. De La Cruz is on £12000 a week, for example, and must be one of our lowest paid players in the first team squad. Typically players are on around £15000 to £25000, which isn't particularly low compared to the rest of the lower half clubs - and is miles ahead of championship clubs.

So you think the current wage structure is NOT the reason we fail to buy proven quality.

Rosenior aside, we have not been able to buy from another Prem side, others clubs around us don't have this problem.

we seem able to pay £25,000 a week, which is more than enough.

Bolton have paid more, but Bolton have huge debts due to paying high wages. It keeps them up, but will catch up with them eventually.

Other than that, it's hard to pick out too many big signings that those around us have made.

[Jeffers217]

The only good that will come out of relegation would be the mass exodus of the glory hunters- I'm fed up of sitting near tw@ts who never went to Elm Park and used to mock us when we were crap.

I don't understand how Hunt can warrant his new wage just on his effort- he has a very limited amount of footballing quality which has been made to look better due to the rest of the team. I just feel half the players are underperforming and if they were to get back to how they were we would stay up. I'm talking about Doyle, Convey, Sonko, Lita, even Shorey is not playing great.

[Hampshire Royal]

I've just found an interesting website which details the turnover, profit, wages/turnover ratio and other stuff for all the PL and League clubs. If we really are getting the reported £40 - 60 million Sky money, why doesn't it show in our turnover?

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_reading.htm

This shows £17.768 million turnover, leaving a pre-tax loss of £6.465 million. The wages form 80.2% of our turnover.

[Sir Dodger Royal]

Come on. Where has the money gone?

Ask the Madman.

It certainly hasn't gone on players.

Who pinched the goodies?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I've just found an interesting website which details the turnover, profit, wages/turnover ratio and other stuff for all the PL and League clubs. If we really are getting the reported £40 - 60 million Sky money, why doesn't it show in our turnover?

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_reading.htm

This shows £17.768 million turnover, leaving a pre-tax loss of £6.465 million. The wages form 80.2% of our turnover.

because they've are not accurate. We lost £6 million in our promotion year, not last season. It tends to reflect when accounts are published. I think ours come out during the season, not in the close season. Last season we apparently made a £6 million profit, with turnover up to a bit over £40 million.

As Reading is a plc, falsifying the accounts in the way SDR is suggesting would constitute fraud and be a criminal offence.

Suggesting JM is committing fraud would also constitute libel, which applies to message boards just as it does in the press, and the board owners would be legally bound to reveal the identity of any poster making such an allegation.

With that in mind, would SDR like to elaborate on his comments about asking JM where the money has gone if it isn't appearing in the company accounts?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Bolton have huge debts due to paying high wages. It keeps them up, but will catch up with them eventually.

I'm sorry, but that is just totally incorrect.
In 2004 there were reports that they were at least £38M in debt after building a new stadium... they've basicly been struggling for years with that debt.
As a result of not having much money they mostly signed players on Bosman's, and as you say they then had to pay high wages. This is balanced out by generally not paying transfer fees.
I don't think there can be so much of that debt left now.

from a couple of months back

Some claim that Bolton as a club, lack ambition, but a look at the accounts should put that idea to bed. The debt increased from £29 million to £43 million last year, and wages came in at just under £30 million.

a £14 million loss over a year doesn't really imply the debt is paid off, does it?
http://www.bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/a ... sp?a=91158

[Hampshire Royal]

Ok, Algie, that makes perfect sense.

[Platypuss]

I've just found an interesting website which details the turnover, profit, wages/turnover ratio and other stuff for all the PL and League clubs. If we really are getting the reported £40 - 60 million Sky money, why doesn't it show in our turnover?

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_reading.htm

This shows £17.768 million turnover, leaving a pre-tax loss of £6.465 million. The wages form 80.2% of our turnover.

because they've are not accurate. We lost £6 million in our promotion year, not last season. It tends to reflect when accounts are published. I think ours come out during the season, not in the close season. Last season we apparently made a £6 million profit, with turnover up to a bit over £40 million.

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69162

Profit £6.5 Million.
Turnover up a bit from £18m to £50M

[Big Ern]

We are not doomed yet, but I fear the worse and have for quite a while.

The fact is, the team is at the end if it's shelf life with some players past their best, and others with an eye on bigger and more lucrative surroundings. This was bound to happen, however it has't helped that it appears we are a Premiership club being run on a Championship budget with regards to transfers.

We need to accept that we are one of the less attractive clubs in the division for players to join, and we don't exactly have a reputation for being big payers, however Wigan have managed to attract players and we need to reconsider our pay structure to give ourselves a fighting chance against the teams we compete with in this division. Eveny single club around us has spent more than us this season so far, and that could be telling at the end of the season

I also have concerns about our scouting network. For too long the scouting reputation of the club has been living on the past glory of Kevin Doyle, Sonko and Hunt, however, with the exception of Doobs, not one player who we have signed since we got promoted has made an impact. The only obne that came close, Seol, lasted one year. Who knows the politics behind the scenes as Madejski is a shrewd man and will only let the fans know what he wants them to know so we can only speculate, however it is not good at the moment, and whatever the true intentions, the actions, or lack of it in the transfer market gives the perception that we are not serious about competing on expenditure with other clubs. The club, however, has happily taken our money with the huge rise on season ticket price and justified it by citing the needs to expand the squad? Even for the most objective supporter, the lack of expenditure set against the high season ticket price and huge increase in TV revenue would make the situation fairly galling to say the least.

With the above said, we now have to face reality and hope to survive wit what we have. It will be tight, very tight and I fear the worse. If we do mange to saty up by the skin of our teath,, then we can only hope that the colse encouter with relegation is the catalyst for change in the furture to at least make us competitive.

Ok, after such a serious post, I would like to return to my normal posting manner and take the opportunity to say WIBBLE!

[RoyalBlue]

I've just found an interesting website which details the turnover, profit, wages/turnover ratio and other stuff for all the PL and League clubs. If we really are getting the reported £40 - 60 million Sky money, why doesn't it show in our turnover?

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_reading.htm

This shows £17.768 million turnover, leaving a pre-tax loss of £6.465 million. The wages form 80.2% of our turnover.

because they've are not accurate. We lost £6 million in our promotion year, not last season. It tends to reflect when accounts are published. I think ours come out during the season, not in the close season. Last season we apparently made a £6 million profit, with turnover up to a bit over £40 million.

As Reading is a plc, falsifying the accounts in the way SDR is suggesting would constitute fraud and be a criminal offence.

Suggesting JM is committing fraud would also constitute libel, which applies to message boards just as it does in the press, and the board owners would be legally bound to reveal the identity of any poster making such an allegation.

With that in mind, would SDR like to elaborate on his comments about asking JM where the money has gone if it isn't appearing in the company accounts?

Come off it, even if you are not an accountant, you must realise that there are lots of ways of arriving at a 'loss', particularly if you have more than one company involved.

And SDR has not stated the anyone is falsifying accounts. He, like others, is just wondering where all of the money has gone. For example how much has been legitimately (and that is not implying any was spent other than legitimately - before you suggest otherwise) paid out to companies, organisations etc. that have no connection with RFC plc or any other organisation connected to the Chairman.

[West Stand Man]

Have we had the usual "don't you remember when we used to play in the old fourth division and losing to Bury" bollox yet? It's all very well trying to be positive, but anyone who seriously doesn't realise by now that we are in deep doodoo needs to see a doctor imho. We could possibly stay up by the skin of our teeth, but it's not cut and dried by any means - what's the answer? I really don't know. It's too late to buy anyone. I defy any of you on here who were moaning at those of us who criticised the lack of purchases in the transfer window, to say hand on heart that we were wrong. Still, looking on the bright side, we'll be one of the richest, if not THE richest team in the Championship if we go down next season.

You miss the point.

I am one who remembers the darkest days of Div 4 etc and yes, I do think that the new breed need to accept that this is the best period (overall) in our history. I can also recognise that, so far is this season is concerned, we are in 'deep doodoo' as you so eloquently put it. The issue is that however deep that doodoo is it still isn't as deep as being in the bottom 1/4 of the 4th Division, or facing closure and merging with Oxford Utd, etc etc. Hence, I worry about this season, but put it into perspective.

[rfc58]

We are not doomed yet, but I fear the worse and have for quite a while.

The fact is, the team is at the end if it's shelf life with some players past their best, and others with an eye on bigger and more lucrative surroundings. This was bound to happen, however it has't helped that it appears we are a Premiership club being run on a Championship budget with regards to transfers.

We need to accept that we are one of the less attractive clubs in the division for players to join, and we don't exactly have a reputation for being big payers, however Wigan have managed to attract players and we need to reconsider our pay structure to give ourselves a fighting chance against the teams we compete with in this division. Eveny single club around us has spent more than us this season so far, and that could be telling at the end of the season

I also have concerns about our scouting network. For too long the scouting reputation of the club has been living on the past glory of Kevin Doyle, Sonko and Hunt, however, with the exception of Doobs, not one player who we have signed since we got promoted has made an impact. The only obne that came close, Seol, lasted one year. Who knows the politics behind the scenes as Madejski is a shrewd man and will only let the fans know what he wants them to know so we can only speculate, however it is not good at the moment, and whatever the true intentions, the actions, or lack of it in the transfer market gives the perception that we are not serious about competing on expenditure with other clubs. The club, however, has happily taken our money with the huge rise on season ticket price and justified it by citing the needs to expand the squad? Even for the most objective supporter, the lack of expenditure set against the high season ticket price and huge increase in TV revenue would make the situation fairly galling to say the least.

With the above said, we now have to face reality and hope to survive wit what we have. It will be tight, very tight and I fear the worse. If we do mange to saty up by the skin of our teath,, then we can only hope that the colse encouter with relegation is the catalyst for change in the furture to at least make us competitive.

Ok, after such a serious post, I would like to return to my normal posting manner and take the opportunity to say WIBBLE!

Spot on sir.

I would love to know who is behind the decision to sign a player. Take both Halford and Fae, the club claims to watched their progress for 12 months, and yet neither have/had added anything to the team, so either they aren't good enough, if so, why sign them, or they were never given a chance to break into the team. Rosenior is a good player, yet can't get in the side.

Blackburn nowadays are a good example of a club who are a) not a glamour club who have spent wisely with a budget and probable "pulling power" similar to ours, spend a bit more on wages to attract proven players, and are reaping the rewards.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Worrying that history maybe about to repeat again....

20 years ago (1987/1988) Relegated
10 years ago (1997/1998) Relegated
2007/2008 - ???

Still if it does repeat and we bounce back quickly we could get 8 or 9 years at the top before 2017/2018 comes round!!

[West Stand Man]

Good performances don't stop people on here having a go at Hahnemann, Shorey and (in some cases) Hunt.

As far as I'm aware, people only ever moan at players when they've played badly and that's fair enough. We're all more than happy to give them praise when we feel they've done well - see Matejovsky yesterday for example.

Has anyone seen all the player ratings from this morning's press? Matejovsky was hammered by some (I even looked at the Sun, and they gave him 4/10 - the lowest for any player on the park!).

For all his running around, and the superb passing, he did give away a penalty and the free kick that led to the first goal.

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Has anyone seen all the player ratings from this morning's press? Matejovsky was hammered by some (I even looked at the Sun, and they gave him 4/10 - the lowest for any player on the park!).

For all his running around, and the superb passing, he did give away a penalty and the free kick that led to the first goal.

Are you getting the feeling he's a one trick pony? So far, thats the only vibe Im getting off the man.

Oh, we're not getting 60 Million off SKY - dont even know where that stat came from. You could be assured that if we were, we'd be trying a bit harder not to go down.

The reason that I am so assured that we are getting relegated this year is that our weaknesses are so obvious, that the lack of investment and managerial expertise to correct it is very concerning.

There is no way we should have lost the game on Saturday.

But is it such a bad thing - you only have to look at the Bolton fans on Saturday. Disinterested with the whole experience. If we continue to wander around this league for five more years doing nothing in particular, then that will be us. And, honestly, I can only foresee myself similar to one of those Bolton fans that now has another hobby on a Saturday.