Striker for 4-5-1/4-3-3

[Snowball]

Without getting into stats, remember that last season Shane only started 13 games (7 goals) and played the equivalent of 18 games in total time (9 goals)

That shows quite clearly he can score goals when starting (best ratio in the club by a very long way)

There is no LOGICAL reason why he shouldn't score 20 goals if he plays 40+ games

He ought to be slightly stronger than he was at the end of last year, so, IF HE CAN FIT THE SYSTEM
and plays regularly there is no reason to suggest he won't approximate a goal every other game.

In all his time at the club he's got a good ratio of goals for minutes played. Last season he showed he can do it when starting, no argument.

Like it or not, as things stand, Shane Long is by far our most prolific striker

24 league goals Harper (9 seasons)
17 league goals S Long
16 league goals S Hunt
11 league goals N Hunt
09 league goals Gunnarson
06 league goals Cisse
06 league goals Bikey

[Ian Royal]

I can't remember us having a striker who could also score 2 or 3 direct from free kicks, (or reliably from the penalty spot for that matter) so NHunt might just pick up a few more than from "normal" striking.

(Forster I suppose wasn't bad from dead ball - anyone else? Not Caskey, he wasn't a striker.)

Weren't loads of Morley's goals from the spot?

Kitson had a pretty good penalty record as well. Definitely missed a couple, but scored the majority. Our free kick specialists have generally been midfielders or full backs though.

[Royal Rother]

I don't remember much about Morley's days and didn't see him play that often. I had a very comfie armchair in those days I guess. Or maybe that's when I discovered pot. I was a late developer.

[Royalee]

Quite right Ian - and people need to realise that in a 4-5-1/4-3-3 style of play, the forward 3/4 players will all be looking to chip in goals the way Rodgers plays. Look at how poor the rest of our players were at this under Coppell's stewardship at times and how much we relied on the likes of Doyle and Kitson with how crap our wingers were. If you look at Robson-Kanu and Henry, they've got goals in them and if we bring in Smith and Taarabt then they'll only add to that - I also think Marek'll chip in with a fair few this year playing in a more advanced role. I think there'll be much less of a significance placed on the goal tally of the loan striker than some people think.

[Snowball]

Quite right Ian - and people need to realise that in a 4-5-1/4-3-3 style of play, the forward 3/4 players will all be looking to chip in goals the way Rodgers plays. Look at how poor the rest of our players were at this under Coppell's stewardship at times and how much we relied on the likes of Doyle and Kitson with how crap our wingers were. If you look at Robson-Kanu and Henry, they've got goals in them and if we bring in Smith and Taarabt then they'll only add to that - I also think Marek'll chip in with a fair few this year playing in a more advanced role. I think there'll be much less of a significance placed on the goal tally of the loan striker than some people think.

Compare our main goals and scorers to Watford's last year. Virtually identical

17 18 Smith Doyle
12 11 Priskin N Hunt
08 09 Rasiak Long
07 06 O'Toole S Hunt
04 05 Hoskins Cisse
03 03 McAnuff Bikey
03 03 Cowie Sonko
02 02 Williamson Kebe
02 02 Eustace Kitson


58 59

[Royalee]

And now go and look at how many of those were scored after Rodgers took over.

[Ian Royal]

I don't remember much about Morley's days and didn't see him play that often. I had a very comfie armchair in those days I guess. Or maybe that's when I discovered pot. I was a late developer.

I loved Morley in that season. He was like a tank just going straight through defenders rather than round them. He is also the only player I've ever seen score a header from his own penalty. Lots of his goals came from headers as well. Despite (or possibly because) of the metal plates holding his skull together.

That must have been about the time I was attending most regularly.

[Royalee]

During Rodgers' time in charge, the goals look to have been split throughout the team:

Priskin: 12
Smith: 8
Rasiak: 8
McAnuff: 3
Cowie: 3
Jenkins: 1
O’Toole: 1
DeMerit: 1
Cork: 1
Hoskins: 1
Mariappa: 1
Williamson: 1
J Fontaine: 1
Cauna: 1

This would indicate that the system is not overly reliant on any one player and given that I believe we have a vaster array of attacking players (in midfield and attack) than Watford had last season, I would expect this to be split even more.

[Ian Royal]

During Rodgers' time in charge, the goals look to have been split throughout the team:

Priskin: 12
Smith: 8
Rasiak: 8
McAnuff: 3
Cowie: 3
Jenkins: 1
O’Toole: 1
DeMerit: 1
Cork: 1
Hoskins: 1
Mariappa: 1
Williamson: 1
J Fontaine: 1
Cauna: 1

This would indicate that the system is not overly reliant on any one player and given that I believe we have a vaster array of attacking players (in midfield and attack) than Watford had last season, I would expect this to be split even more.

Fancy putting up our players goals for the same period as a comparison?

[Royalee]

Long: 8
N Hunt: 5
Doyle: 3
Kitson: 2
Cisse: 2
Gunnarsson: 1
Ingimarsson: 1
S Hunt: 1
Federici: 1
Armstrong: 1
Lita: 1
Pearce: 1
Kebe: 1
Karacan: 1
Matejovsky: 1

Looking at these, only one player not playing as a striker managed 2 goals during the same period, which goes to demonstrate how much we relied on the strikers in Coppell's system really. Although it is sometimes said that a 4-5-1 system is defensive, this would demonstrate otherwise as what people are overlooking in some cases is the fact that the midfield players have much more license to get forward and support the forwards. Hunt and Kebe played a lot of games on the wings and only managed a goal each over half the season - you then compare this to Robson-Kanu (4 goals in 20 games for Swindon) and Henry (3 goals in 16 for Millwall and 4 goals in 11 for a relegated Bournemouth side the previous season) albeit playing one league below, see they've scored in pre-season and look very good going forward and add this to the change in system and things don't look half as bad as people make out. Throw in a few goals from Smith and Taarabt if we manage them and perhaps a few from Matejovsky/Harper being played in a more advanced role not having to track back as much and I think many will be surprised at how prolific we are this season.

[Royalee]

43 Watford goals versus 30 Reading goals btw.

[SteveRoyal]

Snowball, can you change your username to "Shane Long's Bum Chum" please?
At least I was polite.

[Royalee]

...Shit, I mean Shane Long didn't score any!

[Ian Royal]

More players scoring than I'd anticipated.

[Royalee]

Look at what percentage we're strikers' goals though - take away Long, N Hunt, Doyle, Kitson and Lita's solitary goal against Watford themselves and the goals aren't really coming from elsewhere. At Watford you had all 3 of their main strikers scoring level or above our top scorer in Long even with Smith playing deeper a lot of the time. It's also worth pointing out that their wide players McAnuff and Cowie (who only signed in the January window over a month into these games) both managed thrice as many each as ours and were playing in what most would say is a weaker team.

[Snowball]

Seeing those 8 goals from Shane in the Watford-Reading comparison,
I see he finally got half a chance (sub at Wednesday)

and scored the winner, and cleared off our line to keep the 3 points

Interesting that in the six previous games, we lost to Swansea, Forest, & Bristol (failing to score)
and also failed to score versus Preston and QPR, and the goal versus Wolves was an own-goal

FLC L 0-2 Swansea City
FLC W 1-0 Wolves
FLC D 0-0 QPR
FLC D 0-0 Preston
FLC L 0-2 Bristol City
FLC L 0-1 Nottm Forest


Maybe if Shane had been given a chance six games earlier we'd now be in the Prem.

[Snowball]

Look at what percentage we're strikers' goals though - take away Long, N Hunt, Doyle, Kitson and Lita's solitary goal against Watford themselves and the goals aren't really coming from elsewhere. At Watford you had all 3 of their main strikers scoring level or above our top scorer in Long even with Smith playing deeper a lot of the time. It's also worth pointing out that their wide players McAnuff and Cowie (who only signed in the January window over a month into these games) both managed thrice as many each as ours and were playing in what most would say is a weaker team.

True, but of they were playing 4-3-3 then the "wingers" are expected to cut in more and act more as strikers

Our wingers were expected to get crosses in.

Those who don't like Kebe may want to consider what might happen if some of his dribbling was inside the box

[Royalee]

Look at what percentage we're strikers' goals though - take away Long, N Hunt, Doyle, Kitson and Lita's solitary goal against Watford themselves and the goals aren't really coming from elsewhere. At Watford you had all 3 of their main strikers scoring level or above our top scorer in Long even with Smith playing deeper a lot of the time. It's also worth pointing out that their wide players McAnuff and Cowie (who only signed in the January window over a month into these games) both managed thrice as many each as ours and were playing in what most would say is a weaker team.

True, but of they were playing 4-3-3 then the "wingers" are expected to cut in more and act more as strikers

Our wingers were expected to get crosses in.

Those who don't like Kebe may want to consider what might happen if some of his dribbling was inside the box

I'dve thought there'd be even more chance of him falling over himself than usual with more pressure on him closer to goal, but maybe his crosses would within an 18 yard radius of targeted player for a change.

[Ian Royal]

If it helps he got into the box plenty against Ipswich (a).

Screwed up every chance he had. At least one being laid on a silver platter for him.

[Royalee]

Maybe we can pack him into a box and send him back to the circus Ian?