Let’s talk about passing it around the back.

[CountryRoyal]

After being conditioned to the repetitive horror show Gunter-McShane-Gunter-McShane-Gunter-Lose the ball -Goal, under Stamg8, I think we are comparatively excellent at playing it out from the back.

That was beyond diabolically bad. Comically so.

[Zip]

Will Incey stick with it?

It’s a good question. I would expect him play a more pragmatic game with considerably less passing around the back. More long ball stuff.

[Snowflake Royal]

Its better than Stam. Under Stam we never made the right decision to go safety first and if we did get it out of defence we had no attacking flair.

Under Clowno, we were at least sometimes going long and making good decisions. And if we did beat the press we mostly knew hoe to attack.

Massive improvement needed.

I remember when one of the first lessons you were taught is don't pass across in front of your goal. Because if you get it wrong you're oxf*rd. Now players seem to be encouraged to do it. And as we see regularly, it only takes a slightly misshit pass and you're in danger.

Always have, and always will, prefer looking for the quick ball out of defence to the wing, or if that's not on going long to a channel or target man.

Do your passing with midfielders in midfield. Defenders skillset is to defend, not be play makers.

[tidus_mi2]

I don't mind the playing out from the back and I understand the mindset, you 100% keep possession of the ball but in a dangerous area while a long kick and it's more up to whether you can win the ball, arguably if we kick it long to Joao we've got a good chance of winning it though.

What always drives me up the wall is how at goal kicks we always telegraph the short pass so the opposition attackers know to stay close and then we end up just going long, I don't buy Dellor's complaints that it makes the defenders do extra running, or pulls them out of position but it's still a huge waste of time.

If the short option is on, put the ball down asap and take it, otherwise just kick it long ffs.

[Once upon a time .]

I think that Paul Ince will play a more direct style , which after all is the football he was taught .
I hope he does ! Stam ball is the worst football I have seen in my life ! It was possession without achieving anything .
Football is a simple game . Brian Clough said ‘ pass it to someone wearing the same shirt as you ‘ . That’s all it is , ————- but the players have to move into positions to receive the ball . Now if you are playing a fast moving passing game , they will do that , because they want to have the ball , but if they experience making their runs , two , three , four times and the ball is being tip tapped around aimlessly at the back , they say ‘Sod this , I’ll wait here , no point in wasting my efforts ‘ . So the gaps are not there !
And what are the opposition doing ? Well they happen to be regaining their positions , marking our players , and generally recovering , what would you expect ?
The better teams have the better players , and what makes better players ? The ability to control the ball quicker and move it more accurately and quicker is the difference . If you can do this , why not do it ?
It seems sense to me .p

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I aren't bothered about passing it around at the back, keeping possession can be key in games and we have players that, by and large, are good enough to do it. Maybe Morro and Hein aren't ideal for this though, but most of the others are.

Stam's style was very unique. It was boring at times, keeping hold of possession for the sake of having possession, but also pretty clever as well. The opposition can't score if they don't have the ball type of principle. Having between 70 and 80% possession each game actually gave us a much better chance of winning games, hence why we finished where we did. Taking into account that around 33% of all games are set pieces, so 30 minutes, the other 60 minutes are made up of teams in/out of possession. If we averaged say 75% possession throughout all of our games under Stam, we basically had 45 minutes where we had possession and an opportunity to score whereas the opposition only had 15 minutes with the ball to score a goal. Quite clever actually.

I'd expect we'd want our defenders to get the ball into midfield or into wide areas quickly, not by belting it long though really. As much as it can be effective, I think we'd want to build from the back and have our centre backs go into our full backs or into our midfielders who can then hit the wingers quickly and try and play through Swift who can do this as well. It can be an effective way to pull teams out of a defensive shape.

[Hound]

It wasn’t clever when other teams worked it out mind you

Agree it was pretty unique in our league at the time and certainly worked season 1. Remember going to first game against PNE and seeing them utterly bemused and confused by how we played - think we had something like 85% possession in the first half.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It wasn’t clever when other teams worked it out mind you

Agree it was pretty unique in our league at the time and certainly worked season 1. Remember going to first game against PNE and seeing them utterly bemused and confused by how we played - think we had something like 85% possession in the first half.

Well yeah but then nothing ever is really is it I suppose.

But that's what I mean, in that season it was clever because teams didn't know how to play against it and we had so much momentum, especially at home, that teams struggled to find a way to stop us. However, if teams found a way we'd usually be on the end of a hiding, Norwich 7-1, Newcastle 4-1 and even Preston away was 3-0 as well. Leeds also stopped it effectively at Elland Road when they had about 20% of the ball but won 2-0. It wasn't unstoppable, but teams found it difficult.

It's also probably the last time we were actually any good at home. Think we had the 2nd best home record in our league with 51 points in that season and it was something like the 4th best out of all Football League clubs as well.

[Once upon a time .]

But all that time we are in our own half we are not going to score goals . Goals are scored when you play through the opposition and there is less chance of doing that when they are all in defensive positions stood in front of you .
Retain possession yes , but pass opposition players out of the game . There is more chance of doing that when they are not concentrated back .

[Millsy]

I started this thread as a sceptic and now see the benefits as it draws the oppo onto us, creates space up the pitch to exploit quickly.

I guess it's like anything: zonal marking can be brilliant if implemented well, as can inviting the press.

I hope therefore Incey cleans it up rather than completely throwing it out the window. Less ridiculous passes across the back, look to break the press a lot more effectively etc etc

[YorkshireRoyal99]

But all that time we are in our own half we are not going to score goals . Goals are scored when you play through the opposition and there is less chance of doing that when they are all in defensive positions stood in front of you .
Retain possession yes , but pass opposition players out of the game . There is more chance of doing that when they are not concentrated back .

You can say though that keeping hold of the ball not only invites pressure if they are a pressing team but it also can lead to frustration from the opposition due to not having the ball as well as a lack of concentration as well as they aren't actually having to do anything other than move shape.

Yes, we won't score from keeping the ball between 4 defenders, a midfielder or two and our goalkeeper, but it's about being patient. Of course, having 80% possession is taking this to the extreme of course, but it worked in more cases than it didn't. Sometimes it's not always about trying to play through the opposition when you have the ball, but waiting for them to make mistakes. Ultimately, that's why we were as good as we were. The teams we were better than, we'd play through because we had better players, but teams that were better than us would grow frustrated at not having the ball, thus allowing us to play through them as well.

[URZZZZ]

It wasn’t clever when other teams worked it out mind you

Agree it was pretty unique in our league at the time and certainly worked season 1. Remember going to first game against PNE and seeing them utterly bemused and confused by how we played - think we had something like 85% possession in the first half.

Well yeah but then nothing ever is really is it I suppose.

But that's what I mean, in that season it was clever because teams didn't know how to play against it and we had so much momentum, especially at home, that teams struggled to find a way to stop us. However, if teams found a way we'd usually be on the end of a hiding, Norwich 7-1, Newcastle 4-1 and even Preston away was 3-0 as well. Leeds also stopped it effectively at Elland Road when they had about 20% of the ball but won 2-0. It wasn't unstoppable, but teams found it difficult.

It's also probably the last time we were actually any good at home. Think we had the 2nd best home record in our league with 51 points in that season and it was something like the 4th best out of all Football League clubs as well.

Also that season worked because we kept it simple. Aside from perhaps Grabban, every player had a role and played in their preferred position

As soon as you start complicating the matter, you disrupt the flow and structure of the team, I.e asking an AM to play as an out and out winger, a RW/LW to play as a floating ST, a CM at RB, a RB at LB etc etc

There is no winning formula in the championship but keeping it simple is a start

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It wasn’t clever when other teams worked it out mind you

Agree it was pretty unique in our league at the time and certainly worked season 1. Remember going to first game against PNE and seeing them utterly bemused and confused by how we played - think we had something like 85% possession in the first half.

Well yeah but then nothing ever is really is it I suppose.

But that's what I mean, in that season it was clever because teams didn't know how to play against it and we had so much momentum, especially at home, that teams struggled to find a way to stop us. However, if teams found a way we'd usually be on the end of a hiding, Norwich 7-1, Newcastle 4-1 and even Preston away was 3-0 as well. Leeds also stopped it effectively at Elland Road when they had about 20% of the ball but won 2-0. It wasn't unstoppable, but teams found it difficult.

It's also probably the last time we were actually any good at home. Think we had the 2nd best home record in our league with 51 points in that season and it was something like the 4th best out of all Football League clubs as well.

Also that season worked because we kept it simple. Aside from perhaps Grabban, every player had a role and played in their preferred position

As soon as you start complicating the matter, you disrupt the flow and structure of the team, I.e asking an AM to play as an out and out winger, a RW/LW to play as a floating ST, a CM at RB, a RB at LB etc etc

There is no winning formula in the championship but keeping it simple is a start

Yes, just another variation of Total Football really. Quite simple, pass and move as well as applying principles of positional play throughout, but with players who tactically understood what was being asked because that's what their position was.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

It needs to be quick incisive passes designed to push and pull player to create the space. That is when its effective and a joy to watch. Each player taking responsibility to create spaces by drifting runs.
What we have been served up is a few risky passes which beats the press but we are no further forward and so slow that everyone is back in there desired positions and we're completely marked out of the game. Midfielders drop in deep to receive the ball CF stays up top creating a huge gap. Then we repeat the few passes again, resort to whacking it long to an isolated CF that loses the ball and because we have experienced the high press they have all there players high up the pitch with huge gaps between the lines.

[Dirk Gently]

It's so turgid to watch. I want to see fast, fluid attacking football, not a game of chess.

[Rax]

This, together with "zonal marking" belongs in the bin!