The Snowball stat thread

[Snowball]

None of that actually disproves my comment that he fails to make the most of opportunities more than the rest of our other options up front.

What I said was I was giving (MY reasons, my justifcation for the statement against your zero reasons)

As I've said, I don't catalogue incidents over a season so that I can throw them into a debate on here to back up my point.
I struggle to remember results and goals let alone the opportunities we don't take.

If you are serious then how can you possibly say you KNOW something?
You can't relate a single incident in support of your premise,
and you admit you don't remember. Then I contend that you are wide-open
to be influenced merely by what is said on this board

What I do do is to form an opinion as I watch a player and/or team.

And so do I. My SUBJECTIVE opinion of Church is nothing like as favourable, but I'm sure I
get influenced by the fact others slag him off, that few of his goals have the "wow" factor,
and, simply, he ain't Shane.

So I ask myself. How do I know I am right? Could I be wrong? The stats say he's a lot better than portrayed on here.

I suspect my vision is clouded.

I've a reasonable amount of experience watching football

Whereas I have only watched for 55-60 years, played until I was 38

and discuss a lot of what I see unfolding infront of me with the mates I watch games with.

All of whom could have the same imperfect vision, the same biases...

I will try to back up any statement I make with some form of justification (and examples if I have them)
but it's by no means something I feel the need to list out endlessly in order to prove my point.

But from my POV your inability to come up with ONE such example, not one, is very damning.

The point is, Church HAS his six goals and had a perfectly good one disallowed. The point is,
even you would have to find a DOZEN such incidents this season (and presume that Hunt had none)
and call them "missed chances" before Church would drop to the level of Hunt.

That is one big BIG task.

I contend that a lot of your view about Church is NOT based on reality
but on EXPECTATION, on bias, on prejudice.

I would rather Roberts > Alf/Hunt > Manset before Church if I relied on my gut.

My gut is WRONG. So is yours.

[Snowball]

It's amazing that that one person can manage to pick a fight with so many of the posters that are the least aggressive, most reasonable and most interested in engaging in a genuine debate on here.

I do not include myself in that list by the way. I suffer far too much from a lack of patience, short temper and general enjoyment for hurling around hyperbole and insults. I also feel once again I should offer an apology to the board for helping to create the monster which is snowball by being such an unnecessary shit to him when he first signed up. Though now the monster born from it deserves everything he gets, given his carry on since.

Wow you're late to this one blood-sniffer.

[Snowball]

And yeah fair enough I was wrong on that particular point. Although I didn't mean it quite as literally as you decided to take it.

Of course not.

You weren't inferring I deliberately distorted the stats were you? Nah.


So shall we use the stat that shows us on 2.25 ppg or stick with the one I said 9 weeks ago
I'd use for the season?

I'm going to follow Wycombe's lead and leave this particular thread in a drove.

You are beyond help.

I'd duck and run too, when I had no answer

[Ian Royal]

Fair doos and maybe I'm being a bit harsh with the Leeds goal, so I'll hand him that. Can't remember off the top of my head whether it was against 9 or 10 for the Sham game but do remember he practically stole one off Le Fondre Obviously it's still hard to score but it's just worth noting when looking at the stats that 33% of his goals came when the opposition were down in numbers.

That point also nullify's the goals as sub argument a fair bit as his two goals off the bench both came in that game.

He didn't deserve that Brighton goal , that's pushing it a bit! plus McAnuff needs all the goals he can get as well

Fair cop on the other stats though, certainly gives reason to hope he might come out of his shell and 'do a Shane'

Who was officially credited with that goal in the end?

[Snowball]

Fair doos and maybe I'm being a bit harsh with the Leeds goal, so I'll hand him that. Can't remember off the top of my head whether it was against 9 or 10 for the Sham game but do remember he practically stole one off Le Fondre Obviously it's still hard to score but it's just worth noting when looking at the stats that 33% of his goals came when the opposition were down in numbers.

That point also nullify's the goals as sub argument a fair bit as his two goals off the bench both came in that game.

He didn't deserve that Brighton goal , that's pushing it a bit! plus McAnuff needs all the goals he can get as well

Fair cop on the other stats though, certainly gives reason to hope he might come out of his shell and 'do a Shane'

Who was officially credited with that goal in the end?

The Football League, the OS and me, all awarded the goal to McAnuff.

You know that perfectly well, and your point is?

[Snowball]

That's the trouble with eyeballing int it?

Church claimed it. The OS thought it was his (and originally said it was his)
but then "politics" gave it to McAnuff

Personally I wish McAnuff would learn to PASS instead of shoot cos his shooting is DIRE

By giving him that goal his stats are down to 1 goal every 11.5 shots

Without that goal he'd be worse than 1 in 15

[melonhead]

cant argue with teh stats, and this is what they are good for- moderating your own opinions which are too easily swayed by predjudice and bias.

it seems church is better than i give him credit for.

hoorah.

now leave it

[Wycombe Royal]

I thought it was his goal at the time and nothing I have seen since has ever swayed me from that. Any touch that Church may have got on the ball made very little difference to it's trajectory.

So do you think that every goal that is scored that gets the slightest of deflections off an opposition player should be credited as an own goal? We would see an awful lot of own goals wouldn't we..........the principle is no different.

[melonhead]

That's the trouble with eyeballing int it?

Church claimed it. The OS thought it was his (and originally said it was his)
but then "politics" gave it to McAnuff

Personally I wish McAnuff would learn to PASS instead of shoot cos his shooting is DIRE

By giving him that goal his stats are down to 1 goal every 11.5 shots

Without that goal he'd be worse than 1 in 15

still peddling this old bollox.

the defender said hed got the last touch, and claimed the own goal. church being a natural poacher claimed the touch, cos thats what strikers do, mcanuff got it cos it was his shot, and it was going in regardless of the slight deflection.
feck all to do with politics

[Hoop Blah]

None of that actually disproves my comment that he fails to make the most of opportunities more than the rest of our other options up front.

What I said was I was giving (MY reasons, my justifcation for the statement against your zero reasons)

As I've said, I don't catalogue incidents over a season so that I can throw them into a debate on here to back up my point.
I struggle to remember results and goals let alone the opportunities we don't take.

If you are serious then how can you possibly say you KNOW something?
You can't relate a single incident in support of your premise,
and you admit you don't remember. Then I contend that you are wide-open
to be influenced merely by what is said on this board

What I do do is to form an opinion as I watch a player and/or team.

And so do I. My SUBJECTIVE opinion of Church is nothing like as favourable, but I'm sure I
get influenced by the fact others slag him off, that few of his goals have the "wow" factor,
and, simply, he ain't Shane.

So I ask myself. How do I know I am right? Could I be wrong? The stats say he's a lot better than portrayed on here.

I suspect my vision is clouded.

I've a reasonable amount of experience watching football

Whereas I have only watched for 55-60 years, played until I was 38

and discuss a lot of what I see unfolding infront of me with the mates I watch games with.

All of whom could have the same imperfect vision, the same biases...

I will try to back up any statement I make with some form of justification (and examples if I have them)
but it's by no means something I feel the need to list out endlessly in order to prove my point.

But from my POV your inability to come up with ONE such example, not one, is very damning.

The point is, Church HAS his six goals and had a perfectly good one disallowed. The point is,
even you would have to find a DOZEN such incidents this season (and presume that Hunt had none)
and call them "missed chances" before Church would drop to the level of Hunt.

That is one big BIG task.

I contend that a lot of your view about Church is NOT based on reality
but on EXPECTATION, on bias, on prejudice.

I would rather Roberts > Alf/Hunt > Manset before Church if I relied on my gut.

My gut is WRONG. So is yours.

I can picture plenty of instances in my mind but for the life of can't recall who there against or when. That means I can't describe them with any clarity so whats the point.

Of course people's views are tainted by some bias when assessing a player, it's usually tainted by their previous assessment though and, thankfully, within my group I sit with we all have different views and favourites so have quite a good open debate on different players merits etc.

As for you're stats giving you a different perspective....they only do that if they're recorded correctly and are actually relevant to the opinion you've created. None of those stats you've thrown out cover the opinion I've formed so they're largely irrelevant to the discussion.

That last bit seems to be the bit you consistently fail to get. For someone who is apparently such a great communicator I find it odd you can't absorb that nugget of information, let alone communicate better with people who are actaully open to having a reasonable discussion about it on here.

[Ian Royal]

Fair doos and maybe I'm being a bit harsh with the Leeds goal, so I'll hand him that. Can't remember off the top of my head whether it was against 9 or 10 for the Sham game but do remember he practically stole one off Le Fondre Obviously it's still hard to score but it's just worth noting when looking at the stats that 33% of his goals came when the opposition were down in numbers.

That point also nullify's the goals as sub argument a fair bit as his two goals off the bench both came in that game.

He didn't deserve that Brighton goal , that's pushing it a bit! plus McAnuff needs all the goals he can get as well

Fair cop on the other stats though, certainly gives reason to hope he might come out of his shell and 'do a Shane'

Who was officially credited with that goal in the end?

The Football League, the OS and me, all awarded the goal to McAnuff.

You know that perfectly well, and your point is?

Actually, I know who the officials awarded the goal to at the time and who I believe scored the goal, but I didn't know whether any review had occurred which awarded it to Church, so it was a genuine question. Get over yourself.

[Ian Royal]

That's the trouble with eyeballing int it?

Church claimed it. The OS thought it was his (and originally said it was his)
but then "politics" gave it to McAnuff

Personally I wish McAnuff would learn to PASS instead of shoot cos his shooting is DIRE

By giving him that goal his stats are down to 1 goal every 11.5 shots

Without that goal he'd be worse than 1 in 15

still peddling this old bollox.

the defender said hed got the last touch, and claimed the own goal. church being a natural poacher claimed the touch, cos thats what strikers do, mcanuff got it cos it was his shot, and it was going in regardless of the slight deflection.
feck all to do with politics

This.

And McAnuff's shooting works the keeper and keeps him and the defence having to be mindful of different things, meaning they're less able to cover either. Yet again snowy misses the point of shooting from range even with a poor conversion rate. It's not like he shoots at every possible opportunity, he doesn't make the right decision every time, but then nor does any player.

[floyd__streete]

My gut is WRONG. So is yours.

I wondered what that smell was.

[peterroyal76]

Church is definitely not doing the Shane role!

Unless he finds another gear and muscles up a bit.

He's doing half a Shane role! Unfortunately its not the scoring bit, its the falling over bit.

[Snowball]

I thought it was his goal at the time and nothing I have seen since has ever swayed me from that. Any touch that Church may have got on the ball made very little difference to it's trajectory.

Whether it touched no-one, or the defender, or went straight in
the trajectory changed A LOT and it totally deceived the keeper
who managed to dive out of the way of the ball

So do you think that every goal that is scored that gets the slightest of deflections off an opposition player should be
credited as an own goal? We would see an awful lot of own goals wouldn't we..........the principle is no different.

No I don't nor have I ever said so.

The normal rule is, it it's going in anyway and it touches a defender it's awarded to the attacker.
But if it's a wicked deflection that send the keeper the wrong way or it was missing then they say OG

[Snowball]

And McAnuff's shooting works the keeper and keeps him and the defence having to be mindful of different things, meaning they're less able to cover either. Yet again snowy misses the point of shooting from range even with a poor conversion rate. It's not like he shoots at every possible opportunity, he doesn't make the right decision every time, but then nor does any player.

He has had 42 MISSING shots and a missed pen.

You really think he might have not have tried something else now and again?

[Tails]

Minutes Goals


0,276 Start for 0 Goals = 9,999 Mins per Goal ... Manset

This is incorrect.

[Simon's Church]

Just had a massive deja vu

[Snowball]

Minutes Goals


0,276 Start for 0 Goals = 9,999 Mins per Goal ... Manset

This is incorrect.

You are right. But it's tricky posting infinity

[Snowball]

Just had a massive deja vu

well wipe yer arse