Bolton fall out

[Hendo]

That’s the hope isn’t it? We’ve a decent side with lots of good individuals. Really good CB options, JP, Wing, Marriott absolutely on fire and good depth

It’s difficult to quite know why it isn’t clicking atm. The standout for me is the awful pass completion percentage- why are good technical players experienced at this level unable to retain the ball? If we can sort that then we’ll be good

As mentioned that Marriott goal on Tuesday was superb football. Why is that so rarely happening?

It's easy to talk about awful pass completion after a half like Bolton, but its not representative of every match. 65% v Bolton, but our season average is 75%, which is 8th in the division.

Lane's absolute horror show where he and Nyambe both had about 55% passing accuracy at HT vs Wigan and Lane stayed about that level, our overall score was 78%

Interesting enough: what’s your take? Tactics, players? I don’t think anyone can say everything is just fine and performances are as they should be

I've not been much this season, family etc... but what really stood out to me on Tuesday was a massive difference in confidence of players.

Lane, and a few others, are clearly lacking massively in confidence and everything they touch seems to just go to shit, they're second guessing themselves, which leads to slow play and indecisiveness and losing possession. Whereas you look at Marriott and his confidence is sky-high, almost to a point where he could shoot from anywhere around the box and it would have a good chance of going in.

How you turn that around, I don't know - different for different players.

[Sutekh]

The Chronicle has reported Leam as slamming the challenge on O’Connor on Tuesday as disgusting

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... rs-tackle/

Personally, in the split second it happened, I think it was a completely accidental and zero intent incident, the players certainly didn’t crowd the ref and give him a hard time over it so presume they saw it in a similar way?

[Hound]

Dunno on the Paudie one - tbh you’re kind of risking something like that when you flop on the ground and grab the ball as seems to be the way nowadays when you get a nudge. Not sure the Bolton lad should have gone for the ball but wasn’t a red imo

Fair points Hendo on the confidence. As you say Marriott is strutting round like he owns the place, which is fair enough, and the likes of Lane and Doyle don’t seem to want the ball to me. Maybe the midfield have lost a bit in their ability to retain the ball

Noticed Savage said in his interview that JM told him to try to find him every time he had the ball - which I think Savage maybe took too literally at times

[Hendo]

Dunno on the Paudie one - tbh you’re kind of risking something like that when you flop on the ground and grab the ball as seems to be the way nowadays when you get a nudge. Not sure the Bolton lad should have gone for the ball but wasn’t a red imo

Fair points Hendo on the confidence. As you say Marriott is strutting round like he owns the place, which is fair enough, and the likes of Lane and Doyle don’t seem to want the ball to me. Maybe the midfield have lost a bit in their ability to retain the ball

Noticed Savage said in his interview that JM told him to try to find him every time he had the ball - which I think Savage maybe took too literally at times

I even thought Wing looked like he was lacking a bit in confidence - a couple of instances I noted that before he'd make a first time pass with no issues, but on Tuesday he paused.

[leon]

I do find this a bit shocking.

If Vue don't have any films on I want to see, I don't go and buy a ticket out of loyalty.

If Tescos don't have what I want, I don't refuse to go to Sainsbury's because going to Tescos is part of my identity, passed down through the family.

But if Reading don't have a high-enough xG to keep me entertained, I'm not going to start going to Swindon or Oxford am I?

Yes I'd rather be entertained more. But I also, first and foremost, want the club to succeed, to avoid relegation, and to have a sustainable future.

The season ticket holders you reference may well have said, during the height of the Dai era existential threat, "I really want the club to survive, as long as they'e successful and the football is entertaining." I didn't hear that much at the time.

If you accept that a football club has a stronger emotional pull that just another entertainment business, it seems amazing to me that during a time of relative success on the pitch, with a team that is developing and improving, to decide you're no more committed than you are to a the brand of lager or clothing retailer.

Who mentioned going to watch Swindon? Or x fcuking G for that matter?

We’re not talking kids here we’re talking about adults. With responsibility and other things that get in the way. Family, work, commitments etc

Your post does suggest you’re either in your twenties and/or you have none of the above.

You're quite rude, aren't you?

I'm in my 60s.

If their responsibilities are so cumbersome, why did they buy a season ticket in the first place?

I'm just making the point that a football club is not just another entertainment business.

Surely, if you read my post carefully, you'll see the point I was making. The club still exists. We're nowhere near relegation. That's enough to keep me attending.

Clubs like Newcastle, West Ham, Spurs - the very worst supporter bases in the country for that sense of entitlement that demands not just success but a particular way of achieving in, hounding managers out with protests and boycotts because the football on display does not meet their expectations. I would hate to think Reading's fan base were like that.

Eh? you might be in your 60s but you’re still jumping to some pretty wild conclusions.

We’re talking 20+ years of attendance. Just because people no longer find watching shit football remotely enjoyable whilst having pressing things to do doesn’t make them West Ham fans ffs. They haven’t had lobotomies or joined the Reform party*

*yes I know it’s the same thing

[Snowflake Royal]

That’s the hope isn’t it? We’ve a decent side with lots of good individuals. Really good CB options, JP, Wing, Marriott absolutely on fire and good depth

It’s difficult to quite know why it isn’t clicking atm. The standout for me is the awful pass completion percentage- why are good technical players experienced at this level unable to retain the ball? If we can sort that then we’ll be good

As mentioned that Marriott goal on Tuesday was superb football. Why is that so rarely happening?

It's easy to talk about awful pass completion after a half like Bolton, but its not representative of every match. 65% v Bolton, but our season average is 75%, which is 8th in the division.

Lane's absolute horror show where he and Nyambe both had about 55% passing accuracy at HT vs Wigan and Lane stayed about that level, our overall score was 78%

Interesting enough: what’s your take? Tactics, players? I don’t think anyone can say everything is just fine and performances are as they should be

I think we've got a few issues, some of which are hang ups from a poor start, finding the right combinations of players, shifting focus and message from manager changes and recruitment. It's clear Leam and Noel had different emphasises and approaches... Hunt for example was very fitness, high effort and hard press oriented, where as Richardson has eased off the press and intensity and is happier for us to pass in our own third.

We know we're a pretty direct team, that emphasises either pacey counter attack breaks or long direct passes into channels etc, and that Marriott isn't ideal to that as a line leader. Even when played well, that's going to struggle against a team dominating possession and applying lots of pressure.

So a few individual mistakes, and some psychological factors knowing we concede a fair amount and struggle with our out all combine to have us gift away possession and make poor choices when we need to just be a be cuter, but exhaustion does that to you, which comes from constantly defending hard as a whole team.

I've rarely thought this season we're far from.good performances and play. We show plenty of good stuff in games.

And of course, even the best team can't play well every game.

[Sutekh]

Yeah! The footie’s not quite the same now it’s all technical and they all follow like sheep to the next “great idea”. Sure facilities have improved but “possession theory” I find so boring esp. when doubled down with all the related tedious stats. God we need pace and wingers back everywhere, proper pacey and/or trick-laden wingers, not the stupid inverted everything that seems to be the latest craze & buzzword.

And with that full backs that get forward from time to time not that spend half their time beyond the halfway line filling in by providing the width that’s gone missing in due the latest “wide midfielder” inverting everywhere.

[Mr Angry]

The Chronicle has reported Leam as slamming the challenge on O’Connor on Tuesday as disgusting

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... rs-tackle/

Personally, in the split second it happened, I think it was a completely accidental and zero intent incident, the players certainly didn’t crowd the ref and give him a hard time over it so presume they saw it in a similar way?

You can say that for virtually every red card incident; what is "completely accidental" in this context? The free kick had been awarded, but Kenny still decided to lash out at the ball which was dangerously close to an opponent's face - 2 things; what was he trying to do by launching a massively swipe at the ball at that moment and what did he think he would gain from it? And secondly, red cards are given all the time for dangerous and reckless challenges, where there is "zero intent" by the player but he still MIGHT injure an opponent by recklessly going for the ball; IMHO that was what happened Tuesday night, and Kenny should have been given a red card.

[Snowflake Royal]

The Chronicle has reported Leam as slamming the challenge on O’Connor on Tuesday as disgusting

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... rs-tackle/

Personally, in the split second it happened, I think it was a completely accidental and zero intent incident, the players certainly didn’t crowd the ref and give him a hard time over it so presume they saw it in a similar way?

You can say that for virtually every red card incident; what is "completely accidental" in this context? The free kick had been awarded, but Kenny still decided to lash out at the ball which was dangerously close to an opponent's face - 2 things; what was he trying to do by launching a massively swipe at the ball at that moment and what did he think he would gain from it? And secondly, red cards are given all the time for dangerous and reckless challenges, where there is "zero intent" by the player but he still MIGHT injure an opponent by recklessly going for the ball; IMHO that was what happened Tuesday night, and Kenny should have been given a red card.

To me, and I saw it in real time and replay, it looked very reminiscent of SHunt and the Chelsea keeper.

Paudie and Kenny battling for the ball, Paudie goes over, Kenny's foot smacks him in the face as his stride and momentum takes him passed O'Connor. The fact he immediately goes back and checks on him is quite telling.

I don’t think there’s any intent. I don’t think there's recklessness or excessive force. I think there's just an unfortunate accident from a running tussle and a player going over.

It's also not a Mings scenario where the guy has form for kicking people in the face, it doesn't look an extensive career, but no sign of a red, 3 career yellows.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Isn't endangering an opponent with reckless play a red regardless of intent?

[South Coast Royal]

The Chronicle has reported Leam as slamming the challenge on O’Connor on Tuesday as disgusting

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... rs-tackle/

Personally, in the split second it happened, I think it was a completely accidental and zero intent incident, the players certainly didn’t crowd the ref and give him a hard time over it so presume they saw it in a similar way?

You can say that for virtually every red card incident; what is "completely accidental" in this context? The free kick had been awarded, but Kenny still decided to lash out at the ball which was dangerously close to an opponent's face - 2 things; what was he trying to do by launching a massively swipe at the ball at that moment and what did he think he would gain from it? And secondly, red cards are given all the time for dangerous and reckless challenges, where there is "zero intent" by the player but he still MIGHT injure an opponent by recklessly going for the ball; IMHO that was what happened Tuesday night, and Kenny should have been given a red card.

To me, and I saw it in real time and replay, it looked very reminiscent of SHunt and the Chelsea keeper.

Paudie and Kenny battling for the ball, Paudie goes over, Kenny's foot smacks him in the face as his stride and momentum takes him passed O'Connor. The fact he immediately goes back and checks on him is quite telling.

I don’t think there’s any intent. I don’t think there's recklessness or excessive force. I think there's just an unfortunate accident from a running tussle and a player going over.

It's also not a Mings scenario where the guy has form for kicking people in the face, it doesn't look an extensive career, but no sign of a red, 3 career yellows.

Yeah, that's the way I saw it watching on TV and having the benefit of a replay.
Richardson deflecting from the poor second half by going on about that incident is typical manager speak.

[MR. CYNICAL]

You can say that for virtually every red card incident; what is "completely accidental" in this context? The free kick had been awarded, but Kenny still decided to lash out at the ball which was dangerously close to an opponent's face - 2 things; what was he trying to do by launching a massively swipe at the ball at that moment and what did he think he would gain from it? And secondly, red cards are given all the time for dangerous and reckless challenges, where there is "zero intent" by the player but he still MIGHT injure an opponent by recklessly going for the ball; IMHO that was what happened Tuesday night, and Kenny should have been given a red card.

To me, and I saw it in real time and replay, it looked very reminiscent of SHunt and the Chelsea keeper.

Paudie and Kenny battling for the ball, Paudie goes over, Kenny's foot smacks him in the face as his stride and momentum takes him passed O'Connor. The fact he immediately goes back and checks on him is quite telling.

I don’t think there’s any intent. I don’t think there's recklessness or excessive force. I think there's just an unfortunate accident from a running tussle and a player going over.

It's also not a Mings scenario where the guy has form for kicking people in the face, it doesn't look an extensive career, but no sign of a red, 3 career yellows.

Yeah, that's the way I saw it watching on TV and having the benefit of a replay.
Richardson deflecting from the poor second half by going on about that incident is typical manager speak.

Yes, can't listen to his post match interviews as he talks a lot of shite, as if he's watched a different game than the rest of us, I have to pay to watch that rubbish so don't want listen to a load of rubbish afterwards.

[Sutekh]

The Chronicle has reported Leam as slamming the challenge on O’Connor on Tuesday as disgusting

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... rs-tackle/

Personally, in the split second it happened, I think it was a completely accidental and zero intent incident, the players certainly didn’t crowd the ref and give him a hard time over it so presume they saw it in a similar way?

You can say that for virtually every red card incident; what is "completely accidental" in this context? The free kick had been awarded, but Kenny still decided to lash out at the ball which was dangerously close to an opponent's face - 2 things; what was he trying to do by launching a massively swipe at the ball at that moment and what did he think he would gain from it? And secondly, red cards are given all the time for dangerous and reckless challenges, where there is "zero intent" by the player but he still MIGHT injure an opponent by recklessly going for the ball; IMHO that was what happened Tuesday night, and Kenny should have been given a red card.

To me, and I saw it in real time and replay, it looked very reminiscent of SHunt and the Chelsea keeper.

Paudie and Kenny battling for the ball, Paudie goes over, Kenny's foot smacks him in the face as his stride and momentum takes him passed O'Connor. The fact he immediately goes back and checks on him is quite telling.

I don’t think there’s any intent. I don’t think there's recklessness or excessive force. I think there's just an unfortunate accident from a running tussle and a player going over.

It's also not a Mings scenario where the guy has form for kicking people in the face, it doesn't look an extensive career, but no sign of a red, 3 career yellows.

Depends how it’s seen and presumably the ref saw it as accidental because he felt the players momentum was already in force when he gave the free kick. The argument then becomes a refereeing decision and as we know those standards are not high in any division currently. I can see the argument for dismissal if the above is priven, in which case perhaps there should be an edict which says a straight red for ANY boot to face contact.

[Snowflake Royal]

You can say that for virtually every red card incident; what is "completely accidental" in this context? The free kick had been awarded, but Kenny still decided to lash out at the ball which was dangerously close to an opponent's face - 2 things; what was he trying to do by launching a massively swipe at the ball at that moment and what did he think he would gain from it? And secondly, red cards are given all the time for dangerous and reckless challenges, where there is "zero intent" by the player but he still MIGHT injure an opponent by recklessly going for the ball; IMHO that was what happened Tuesday night, and Kenny should have been given a red card.

To me, and I saw it in real time and replay, it looked very reminiscent of SHunt and the Chelsea keeper.

Paudie and Kenny battling for the ball, Paudie goes over, Kenny's foot smacks him in the face as his stride and momentum takes him passed O'Connor. The fact he immediately goes back and checks on him is quite telling.

I don’t think there’s any intent. I don’t think there's recklessness or excessive force. I think there's just an unfortunate accident from a running tussle and a player going over.

It's also not a Mings scenario where the guy has form for kicking people in the face, it doesn't look an extensive career, but no sign of a red, 3 career yellows.

Depends how it’s seen and presumably the ref saw it as accidental because he felt the players momentum was already in force when he gave the free kick. The argument then becomes a refereeing decision and as we know those standards are not high in any division currently. I can see the argument for dismissal if the above is priven, in which case perhaps there should be an edict which says a straight red for ANY boot to face contact.

That would be a ludicrous edict and is never going to happen

[Sutekh]

To me, and I saw it in real time and replay, it looked very reminiscent of SHunt and the Chelsea keeper.

Paudie and Kenny battling for the ball, Paudie goes over, Kenny's foot smacks him in the face as his stride and momentum takes him passed O'Connor. The fact he immediately goes back and checks on him is quite telling.

I don’t think there’s any intent. I don’t think there's recklessness or excessive force. I think there's just an unfortunate accident from a running tussle and a player going over.

It's also not a Mings scenario where the guy has form for kicking people in the face, it doesn't look an extensive career, but no sign of a red, 3 career yellows.

Depends how it’s seen and presumably the ref saw it as accidental because he felt the players momentum was already in force when he gave the free kick. The argument then becomes a refereeing decision and as we know those standards are not high in any division currently. I can see the argument for dismissal if the above is priven, in which case perhaps there should be an edict which says a straight red for ANY boot to face contact.

That would be a ludicrous edict and is never going to happen

Why is it ludicrous, in what world should someone’s boot ever be near someone’s face?

[Armadillo Roadkill]

Depends how it’s seen and presumably the ref saw it as accidental because he felt the players momentum was already in force when he gave the free kick. The argument then becomes a refereeing decision and as we know those standards are not high in any division currently. I can see the argument for dismissal if the above is priven, in which case perhaps there should be an edict which says a straight red for ANY boot to face contact.

That would be a ludicrous edict and is never going to happen

Why is it ludicrous, in what world should someone’s boot ever be near someone’s face?

When that face belongs to someone lying on the ground who has fallen after a close tussle with an opponent.

I haven't seen it on TV, but judged by the reactions of the Bolton and Reading players -none of who reacted as if they thought it was anything other than an accident.

[tidus_mi2]

Speaking of Bolton fall out, definitely seen a few fans saying we should be sacking Richardson, obviously performance > results in their eyes.

Not saying that's neccessarily wrong but always been under the impression that football is a results business.

[stealthpapes]

Speaking of Bolton fall out, definitely seen a few fans saying we should be sacking Richardson, obviously performance > results in their eyes.

Not saying that's neccessarily wrong but always been under the impression that football is a results business.

LEAM OUT only ever seems about a defeat or two away.

[stealthpapes]

Oh, and it’s massively wrong.

Have people been following a different club these last few years?

[stealthpapes]

Isn't endangering an opponent with reckless play a red regardless of intent?

Yeah, careless, reckless and/or excessive force are the words used, and serious foul play gets a red.

I’m not sure it quite counts as any of those. Even though player got injured.