Rivals to the "106" team?

[Franchise FC]

Had we off-loaded our best players in the two seasons prior to 2005-06
or was 2005-06 the culmination of a building-process?

I think this year is a triumph because the manager has had to rebuild "three times"
First a shattered side post-Rodgers, then replacing Siggy, then picking the team up
post-Wembley, and then, very soon after, losing Shane.

Since May 2009, less than 3 years, we have shipped out lost a heck of a lot of players.


Gylfi Siggurdson
Kevin Doyle
Shane Long
Ryan Bertrand
Steve Sidwell
Stephen Hunt

Zurab Khizanishvili
Dave Kitson
Matt Mills
James Harper
Liam Rosenior
Chris Armstrong
Ivar Ingimarsson
Michael Duberry
Kalifa Cisse
Marek Matejovsky
Leroy Lita
James Henry
Bobby Convey
Glen Little
Ibrahima Sonko
Graeme Murty

Steve Sidwell since 2009 ??

[Snowball]

Well done, 22 listed, one player out

[Franchise FC]

Well done, 22 listed, one player out

Kitson and Little left before 2009, and I know they were back but only on loan.
Convey did manage to get to 2009 - Feb 6th to be exact, and had not played in 2009
Sonko left in 2008

Is that enough ?
I make that 5 out - 22% - more than 1 in five of your selection

[Ian Royal]

ouch.

[SCIAG]

Personally I struggle to see the relevance of the players who left before McDermott became manager (Doyle, Hunt, Lita, Duberry, Murty, Harper, Rosenior, Bikey, Hahnemann- Snowy didn't include the last two) or those who left because they were surplus to requirements (Ingimarsson, Cisse, Matejovsky, Henry, Davies, Kelly- Snowy didn't include the last two), or the loss of Armstrong who had barely played for 18 months and was then surplus to requirements.

So 17 out of the 22 losses (over three years) shouldn't have stopped McDermott doing his job anyway. That leaves Sigurdsson, Bertrand, Long, Zurab and Mills as first team regulars who left under McDermott's reign. When we went up under Coppell we'd just lost regulars Hughes, Forster and Brooker as well as semi-regulars Owusu and Newman, so Coppell had rebuilding of his own to do, though obviously Sigurdsson and Long are a bit better than Hughes and Brooker.

[Woodcote Royal]

Anyone who doesn't put Sidwell in that team shouldn't be allowed to post on this forum

Same applies to anyone who selects Harper.

I think you are talking about the Harper of two years later.
At that time he was an integral part of our team.
Let's not forget the 106 team lost just 2 league games whereas the current one has already lost 10.
Doesn't that say something?

I'm not, to be honest.

I don't consider myself a Harper hater and think of him with sadness as much as anything. In my view, he was a hugely talented player who never came close to fulfilling his true potential. He was never a holding midfielder and, with the benefit of hindsight, anyone of Gunnarsson, Karacan or Leigertwood would have done a far better job in that position. He could have been the attacking midfielder that many have craved in recent times but, the fact is he hasn't been missed since the day he left........................it's a crying shame it had to be that way.

[Snowball]

so Coppell had rebuilding of his own to do, .

46 (00) STAYED Marcus Hahnemann
43 (01) STAYED Ivar Ingimarsson
44 (00) STAYED Nicky Shorey
44 (00) STAYED Steve Sidwell
41 (00) STAYED Graeme Murty
39 (02) STAYED James Harper
35 (04) STAYED Ibrahima Sonko
37 (00) STAYED Dave Kitson
29 (06) STAYED Glen Little

9 of the previous year's first 11 made up the bulk of the 2005-06 first 11 plus Lita and Doyle

2005-06

11 regulars, 9+1 from the previous season

46-0 Ivar Ingimarsson
46-0 Ibrahima Sonko
44-1 James Harper
45-0 Marcus Hahnemann
45-0 Bobby Convey
40-0 Nicky Shorey
40-0 Graeme Murty
41-4 Kevin Doyle
29-4 Steve Sidwell
34-1 Glen Little
27-7 Dave Kitson

22-4 Leroy Lita
Leroy Lita 22 4 3 3 25 7
Brynjar Gunnarsson 19 10 4 1 23 11

[andrew1957]

Going back to the original point my view has always been that the 2005-6 season was a fluke in many ways. We had an incredibly lucky season with the lack of injuries and a virtually unchanged team got into a groove of winning or drawing every game and it was just a question of keeping the run going - which Coppell led brilliantly.

IMO however what Brain McD has done in the past two and a bit seasons has already equalled SC's achievement of 2005-6 and outright promotion will surpass it. He has had to rebuild the team three times and lose several top players along the way. He has also had to deal with many injuries along the way. SC did not have to do either of these as he was lucky with injuries that season and he built the team steadily from the time he joined the club until we were promoted.

The question now remains as to whether if we are promoted Brian can lead us to even greater heights than 2006-7 when we finished 8th in the first ever PL season - which was IMO an even greater achievement than the 106 season.

[Franchise FC]

Going back to the original point my view has always been that the 2005-6 season was a fluke in many ways. We had an incredibly lucky season with the lack of injuries and a virtually unchanged team got into a groove of winning or drawing every game and it was just a question of keeping the run going - which Coppell led brilliantly.

IMO however what Brain McD has done in the past two and a bit seasons has already equalled SC's achievement of 2005-6 and outright promotion will surpass it. He has had to rebuild the team three times and lose several top players along the way. He has also had to deal with many injuries along the way. SC did not have to do either of these as he was lucky with injuries that season and he built the team steadily from the time he joined the club until we were promoted.

The question now remains as to whether if we are promoted Brian can lead us to even greater heights than 2006-7 when we finished 8th in the first ever PL season - which was IMO an even greater achievement than the 106 season.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the common misconception that we had a lack of injuries in 05/06.

[SCIAG]

so Coppell had rebuilding of his own to do, .

46 (00) STAYED Marcus Hahnemann
43 (01) STAYED Ivar Ingimarsson
44 (00) STAYED Nicky Shorey
44 (00) STAYED Steve Sidwell
41 (00) STAYED Graeme Murty
39 (02) STAYED James Harper
35 (04) STAYED Ibrahima Sonko
37 (00) STAYED Dave Kitson
29 (06) STAYED Glen Little

9 of the previous year's first 11 made up the bulk of the 2005-06 first 11 plus Lita and Doyle

Last season's starting XI:
Federici
Griffin/Cummings
Mills
Pearce/Zurab
Harte
Kebe
Legs
Karacan
McAnuff
Hunt
Long

In terms of numbers, the rebuilds are similar. Two or three of Coppell's side changed (left wing, striker, and arguably right wing because Little only played just over half a season). Contrastingly, McDermott had to replace two players (just like Coppell) and increase the game time of two players who previously played significant roles (one more than Coppell). Given (iirc) Pearce and Zurab made the same number of appearances last season...

[andrew1957]

Going back to the original point my view has always been that the 2005-6 season was a fluke in many ways. We had an incredibly lucky season with the lack of injuries and a virtually unchanged team got into a groove of winning or drawing every game and it was just a question of keeping the run going - which Coppell led brilliantly.

IMO however what Brain McD has done in the past two and a bit seasons has already equalled SC's achievement of 2005-6 and outright promotion will surpass it. He has had to rebuild the team three times and lose several top players along the way. He has also had to deal with many injuries along the way. SC did not have to do either of these as he was lucky with injuries that season and he built the team steadily from the time he joined the club until we were promoted.

The question now remains as to whether if we are promoted Brian can lead us to even greater heights than 2006-7 when we finished 8th in the first ever PL season - which was IMO an even greater achievement than the 106 season.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the common misconception that we had a lack of injuries in 05/06.

Copied below from earlier in the thread. I think it shows an astoundingly injury free season when 8 players manage over 40 games each. We had a few injuries up front with Kitson and Lita but not much else.

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

Those are pretty amazing stats

Almost a full season of the same back 4/5.

[SCIAG]

I reckon Federici, Pearce, Gorkss, Karacan, Leigertwood and McAnuff will make the 40 match mark at the very least. With this squad it is more down to our wage bill being much higher so McDermott having more chances to rotate than anything. We have four similar ability strikers this year as opposed to three last time, and McDermott has also failed to settle on regular full backs.

[Royal With Cheese]

Going back to the original point my view has always been that the 2005-6 season was a fluke in many ways. We had an incredibly lucky season with the lack of injuries and a virtually unchanged team got into a groove of winning or drawing every game and it was just a question of keeping the run going - which Coppell led brilliantly.

IMO however what Brain McD has done in the past two and a bit seasons has already equalled SC's achievement of 2005-6 and outright promotion will surpass it. He has had to rebuild the team three times and lose several top players along the way. He has also had to deal with many injuries along the way. SC did not have to do either of these as he was lucky with injuries that season and he built the team steadily from the time he joined the club until we were promoted.

The question now remains as to whether if we are promoted Brian can lead us to even greater heights than 2006-7 when we finished 8th in the first ever PL season - which was IMO an even greater achievement than the 106 season.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the common misconception that we had a lack of injuries in 05/06.

Copied below from earlier in the thread. I think it shows an astoundingly injury free season when 8 players manage over 40 games each. We had a few injuries up front with Kitson and Lita but not much else.

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

Those are pretty amazing stats

Almost a full season of the same back 4/5.

SIDWELL.

[Snowball]

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

Those are pretty amazing stats

Almost a full season of the same back 4/5.

SIDWELL.

Steve Sidwell 29 4

I was making the point about those making 40+ appearances



and PS to whoever said it, 29 (6) = 35 is a fair bit more than half a season


But this, FROM THE START OF THE SEASON, is quite remarkable

especially as they were all regulars the PREVIOUS season
and already knew each other's play

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty
29 (4) 33/46 Steve Sidwell

8/11 almost ever-presents, plus these seven - Little on 35, Kitson 34, Sidwell 33, Oster 33, Gunnarson 29, Lita 26

That is a very tight squad

[SouthDownsRoyal]

if it werent for Zurab Khizanishvili we'd be in prem now anyway

thx Zurab Khizanishvili

[Snowball]

I reckon Federici, Pearce, Gorkss, Karacan, Leigertwood and McAnuff will make the 40 match mark at the very least. With this squad it is more down to our wage bill being much higher so McDermott having more chances to rotate than anything. We have four similar ability strikers this year as opposed to three last time, and McDermott has also failed to settle on regular full backs.

These are Maximum Possibles (tho' not all players can reach their maximum)

Most importantly, the big issue has been full-back where we've played at least 8 different players

Cummings, Mullins, Griffin, Karacan, Harte, Mills, Gunnarson, Connolly

These are Maximum Possibles (tho' not all players can reach their maximum)

46 (00) Adam Federici
46 (00) Alex Pearce
43 (00) Mikele Leigertwood
42 (00) Kaspars Gorkss
41 (01) Jem Karacan
40 (00) Jobi McAnuff

34 (08) Noel Hunt
33 (01) Shaun Cummings
32 (03) Jimmy Kebe
30 (02) Ian Harte

24 (11) Simon Church
23 (16) Hal Robson-Kanu
22 (11) Adam Le Fondre
19 (02) Joseph Mills
18 (00) Jason Roberts
08 (08) Jay Tabb
15 (00) Andy Griffin
04 (11) Mathieu Manset

[Snowball]

In terms of numbers, the rebuilds are similar. Two or three of Coppell's side changed (left wing, striker, and arguably right wing because Little only played just over half a season). Contrastingly, McDermott had to replace two players (just like Coppell) and increase the game time of two players who previously played significant roles (one more than Coppell). Given (iirc) Pearce and Zurab made the same number of appearances last season...

Numbers maybe, but look at 2004-05 and 2005-06 and the core was the same
and (I presume) the style was the same.


McDermott inherited Barcelona's "G" team, heading for relegation
and built a style around Gylfi.

He lost Gylfi, and then built a game reliant on the powerful Shane Long

Then he lost Shane and didn't have an obvious replacement, or a definitive front-two he knew would work.

[Ian Royal]

Going back to the original point my view has always been that the 2005-6 season was a fluke in many ways. We had an incredibly lucky season with the lack of injuries and a virtually unchanged team got into a groove of winning or drawing every game and it was just a question of keeping the run going - which Coppell led brilliantly.

IMO however what Brain McD has done in the past two and a bit seasons has already equalled SC's achievement of 2005-6 and outright promotion will surpass it. He has had to rebuild the team three times and lose several top players along the way. He has also had to deal with many injuries along the way. SC did not have to do either of these as he was lucky with injuries that season and he built the team steadily from the time he joined the club until we were promoted.

The question now remains as to whether if we are promoted Brian can lead us to even greater heights than 2006-7 when we finished 8th in the first ever PL season - which was IMO an even greater achievement than the 106 season.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the common misconception that we had a lack of injuries in 05/06.

Copied below from earlier in the thread. I think it shows an astoundingly injury free season when 8 players manage over 40 games each. We had a few injuries up front with Kitson and Lita but not much else.

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

Those are pretty amazing stats

Almost a full season of the same back 4/5.

That is only 8 of the starting 11 though, and two of them both missed 6 games through injury. Not only that, but the three who don't feature were arguably three of our four best players.

[Snowball]

and your point is?

[Ian Royal]

That us being very lucky with injury that season is a myth. And one begun by our dear friend Colin.