Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

Snowball136
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Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by Snowball136 » 16 Mar 2016 10:13

I think we DO lack character, what used to be The Reading Way.

I remember 2006-07 when a Reading midfielder would go crashing in, not get
the ball but the opposition's saving pass was only 90%, and a second midfielder would
go crashing in, "fail" but that second pass was 80% and when the third RFC player
challenged he'd win the ball. Of course all three challenges mattered.

It was more than mere "pressing"

There was fight, heart, energy, commitment. It was like the players said,
"Hey we're not Barcelona, but by oxf*rd we can fight!"

I don't mind getting beat, even 4-0, if every man has gone in leather flying, every one
has done lung-bursting runs, every one has put his head on the block like that
amazing opposition defender (Burnley?) who, lying on the floor put his face in
front of a shot in front of the South stand.

Think of Shane Long with Noel Hunt. How many times did Hunty get a head injury?
These guys would run through a brick wall for this club. Think of Pearce when he scored,
Mills at Leicester, Feds at Manchester United, the 4-3 win at Forest.

Think how many times we were HAMMERED and won 1-0.

We really have lost our soul. We may need to go down, play kids to re-find it, we may not,
but having seen Adkins and Clarke suffer, and now McD, it's a lot more than mere management,
it's something fundamentally, maybe not "rotten" but not right, in the heart of this club


If I said Long and Hunt, Karacan (as examples) add your own to the list)
gave 10/10 and cared 10/10, how many of these do, what score would you give them
Not quality now, just heart, soul, commitment?

some of those 6s may in truth be 4s

9 Ali

6 Gunts, nah not really
6 Obita, just a competent going through the motions, style
6 Ferdinand, decent enough bloke, but just playing out time

? McShane
? Cooper
5 Hector. Mistake? yeah. I'm a Chelsea Player mate.

6 Norwood, unhappy, no new contract offered
5 Williams. Sure he runs about a lot but it's for HIM, not Reading
7 Quinn. Better, could become "a club heart" but isn't yet
7 Tish

5 Kermogant. May rise to 6 but there is no passion
7 Cox. Must be depressed but one of the few who puts in a shift
7 Vydra Tricky to score. Has the body-language of a 3-4 and is "gone" but shows flashes of 9

6 HRK An average of 8s and 4s, but another one playing out time.
6 McCleary. Just another day at the office these days

7 John (maybe) but he's a loanee so hardly gonna die for the badge

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tidus_mi2
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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by tidus_mi2 » 16 Mar 2016 10:23

Why do people think going down would be a magical fix for the club? Look at Sheffield United, a similar sized club who generally finished very close to us when we were in the same division, only the 2 times they were relegated, Premier League and Championship, did we finish significantly ahead of them, they went down in 2011 and still haven't gained promotion.

There is no guarantee we would go back up and we'd never be able to afford the upkeep for a category 1 academy in League One on top of all our other expenses, would our owners still be interested in the club were we relegated?

Relegation to League One would be oxf*rd terrible and shouldn't even be entertained as a positive for the club.

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by furthest flung fan » 16 Mar 2016 10:44

This is an incredibly important thread and should become the main focus for whats left of the season.
Rating the players for 'Bottle Heart Commitment and Guts' is more relevant now than whether they played well or not. We're all getting sick of the not chasing back, the hanging off tackles, and the general strolling around in recent weeks. Loan players, players with contracts running out, and players in and out of favour all contribute to the apparent malaise. They may be trying hard to play for each other, and for us, but it doesn't really look like it. Al Habsi is a massive exception by the way!
It has to be Brian's main focus now.

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genome
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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by genome » 16 Mar 2016 11:09

This is what Brian's good at though - building a squad of individuals that make a great team. This squad is not his, there are too many loan players and journeymen taken on by a different manager in an attempt to win promotion this year, which didn't work out and is not like us as a club.

He needs at least the summer and then some of next season to, as he keeps saying, "build something". Even then, that's a short amount of time, it took a couple of years for him to do it last time. I enjoyed his comments after last night's game, thought they hit the nail on the head.

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by frimmers3 » 16 Mar 2016 11:18

Does "moving on","going forward" etc absolve all responsibility for the now?


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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by RoyalJames101 » 16 Mar 2016 11:36

genome This is what Brian's good at though - building a squad of individuals that make a great team. This squad is not his, there are too many loan players and journeymen taken on by a different manager in an attempt to win promotion this year, which didn't work out and is not like us as a club.

He needs at least the summer and then some of next season to, as he keeps saying, "build something". Even then, that's a short amount of time, it took a couple of years for him to do it last time. I enjoyed his comments after last night's game, thought they hit the nail on the head.


+1

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by Dixeyroyal » 16 Mar 2016 12:10

genome This is what Brian's good at though - building a squad of individuals that make a great team. This squad is not his, there are too many loan players and journeymen taken on by a different manager in an attempt to win promotion this year, which didn't work out and is not like us as a club.

He needs at least the summer and then some of next season to, as he keeps saying, "build something". Even then, that's a short amount of time, it took a couple of years for him to do it last time. I enjoyed his comments after last night's game, thought they hit the nail on the head.


I am certainly glad that you have discovered something that he is good at because I am struggling. Also really confused by this "this squad is not his" crap, he is paid an awful lot of money to pick the right team and formation for each game, motivate a squad of players to perform to the levels expected of them, and to make those brave decisions that sometimes change games.

The players at his disposal may not fit into his ideals of how we should play but I am fed up with people absolving god like Mcdermott from any blame when we lose. The fact is that he picks the team, he shapes the team, he decides the formation and tactics, he (apparently) motivates the team.... so why the hell is he never responsible in some peoples eyes for any defeat.

It's a bit like me borrowing my Dad's car, crashing it into a bus stop and then trying to deflect the blame by telling the Police that it wasn't my car and therefore I cannot be held responsible!

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genome
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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by genome » 16 Mar 2016 12:24

Nice analogy but football is more complicated than that. You only need to look in the past to see what Brian's strengths are - squad building - and he's not had a chance to build one yet.

He is paid to motivate them, so were Clarke and Adkins, and they failed too. If several different managers can't do it then you have to look at the cause of that. The team lacks identity, as well it might if you bring in numerous loan players in a short-term approach to get promoted. And that's not Brian's fault this season.

To me says we need a change in philosophy and the right one, for several, is thinking long-term and building a team. It's what worked for us in 2006, and 2012 under the same manager. I can't think of many managers Reading could've realistically brought in who are better than Brian at doing that, and he knows the club inside out.

Cut him some slack for a bit, give him the summer and see where we are come January.

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by frimmers3 » 16 Mar 2016 12:32

Perhaps Pardew would make an ideal replacement for Brian when Palace off load him?


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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by floyd__streete » 16 Mar 2016 12:33

You only have to take a look at the few players who have remained at the club throughout a period of much change and consistent decline in fortunes over the past few seasons. Gunter is at least consistently available for selection if unable to demonstrate much by way of consistent quality or leadership skills. In the likes of McCleary and Williams we have a pair who have some serious quality but who are all too readily unavailable for selection for reasons of an exasperating myriad of ailments which can only call their commitment into question. Our permanent signings over the past 3 years have largely been flops, our loan signings have been largely forgettable and our youth products have regressed. And there is no sign that it is going to get any better soon as I struggle to detect any discernible sign of strong and cogent leadership from our property developer owners. RFC golden era 2000-2012 long since over.

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by Snowball136 » 16 Mar 2016 15:49

tidus_mi2 Why do people think going down would be a magical fix for the club? Look at Sheffield United, a similar sized club who generally finished very close to us when we were in the same division, only the 2 times they were relegated, Premier League and Championship, did we finish significantly ahead of them, they went down in 2011 and still haven't gained promotion.

There is no guarantee we would go back up and we'd never be able to afford the upkeep for a category 1 academy in League One on top of all our other expenses, would our owners still be interested in the club were we relegated?

Relegation to League One would be oxf*rd terrible and shouldn't even be entertained as a positive for the club.


I for one am NOT saying relegation would be good for us. The pattern is, however, slowly drifting downwards
from a side that expected to compete for the top six to a side finishing 19th and so far this year 15th

so say we manage 15th

that would be

relegation
7th
19th
15th

in four season. That is, for certain, "forgetting how to win"

I think next season may well be our last chance. It's challenge or drift into the bottom 3-4.

It's becoming less about the aggregate skill-set than "a club in decline". Take away the cup runs and it looks even worse.

We really do need "shock-therapy". ONE possibility (that has worked for some clubs)
is to go down, win League 1 well and regain a winning mentality.

When B-Mac came in he spoke of egos. I am very glad Blackman and Sa have gone.
I think we need clear-out of EVERY player without the right mentality.

I would include Williams in that. He's committed to Team Williams but I don't think
he's the type to die for the cause. Almost none are ATM

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genome
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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by genome » 16 Mar 2016 15:59

That's a whole load of supposition you got there Snowball

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by Lenny The Tramp » 16 Mar 2016 16:54

Taking Palace game as an example, we lost because we weren't brave enough with the ball, not because we weren't flying into challenges. It's that slight lack of quality when we're going forward that's the biggest problem. Running around like a lunatic and shouting and beating your chest and kissing the badge won't change that.

And re relegation, as someone else said - total disaster. Back to 7k crowds - but this time no Madejski money to bail us out.


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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by leon » 16 Mar 2016 17:00

Snowball136
tidus_mi2 Why do people think going down would be a magical fix for the club? Look at Sheffield United, a similar sized club who generally finished very close to us when we were in the same division, only the 2 times they were relegated, Premier League and Championship, did we finish significantly ahead of them, they went down in 2011 and still haven't gained promotion.

There is no guarantee we would go back up and we'd never be able to afford the upkeep for a category 1 academy in League One on top of all our other expenses, would our owners still be interested in the club were we relegated?

Relegation to League One would be oxf*rd terrible and shouldn't even be entertained as a positive for the club.


Almost none are ATM


Not sure their personal lifestyle choices should come into it.

Snowball136
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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by Snowball136 » 16 Mar 2016 17:16

"Bravery" (as in bravery with the ball, not playing safe)
is all part of the bottle issue.

The only "hero we have it seems is maybe Al Habsi.

I think McShane and Quinn might become such, maybe Tish
but we have too many who just seem to be on autopilot

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by SCIAG » 16 Mar 2016 18:19

Snowball136 I think next season may well be our last chance. It's challenge or drift into the bottom 3-4.

Or we could be Ipswich or Cardiff or Derby and finish a solid 6th-12th most seasons.

There's no blueprint, unfortunately. You can get promoted and scrape survival, or come down, or establish yourselves, or win the league . You can get relegated and bounce back, or just miss out, or finish mid-table forever, or fall down the leagues. You can use relegation to League One to help you get to the PL (Southampton), or it can destroy you (Portsmouth), or something in between (Sheffield Wednesday).

We should just take every season one step at a time and try to win our next match. By all means plan for the future, but do that by looking at what's in front of you, not by looking selectively at other clubs and coming up with just-so stories.

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by John Smith » 16 Mar 2016 18:22

Is this like the new Tenacity, Spririt, Flair mantra?

What a cringeworthy and pointless thread. It's just football, get over it

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by No Fixed Abode » 16 Mar 2016 18:28

tidus_mi2 Look at Sheffield United, a similar sized club
:lol:

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by CountryRoyal » 16 Mar 2016 19:30

No Fixed Abode
tidus_mi2 Look at Sheffield United, a similar sized club
:lol:


+1

But that doesn't detract from his point, in fact it strengthens the notion that we are in no way shape or form guaranteed to come back up if we get relegated.

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Re: Bottle, Heart, Commitment, Guts: "The Reading DNA"

by Kuhl_Runnings » 17 Mar 2016 15:40

genome This is what Brian's good at though - building a squad of individuals that make a great team. This squad is not his, there are too many loan players and journeymen taken on by a different manager in an attempt to win promotion this year, which didn't work out and is not like us as a club.

He needs at least the summer and then some of next season to, as he keeps saying, "build something". Even then, that's a short amount of time, it took a couple of years for him to do it last time. I enjoyed his comments after last night's game, thought they hit the nail on the head.


Cannot +1 this enough.

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