BFTG Birmingham

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Sutekh
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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Sutekh » 14 Sep 2016 09:34

Much better performance than Friday for 2 points less. However Birmingham really seemed to be happy with a point and just didn't press us high like Ipswich in the 2nd half

Given a total of 71% possession, to not score is very poor and even more so considering we managed next to no efforts on goal whatsoever aside from a well struck shot in the first half. All we had to show was a handful of corners, a couple of really good crosses and a Birmingham keeper who largely might as well not have been there.

Issue is that we pass too slowly at the moment. Players are taking too much time to get the ball under control an look about for an option to pass to, we need much quicker passing and movement. Too many times when people broke forward with the ball no support was forthcoming and so they had to slow it all down again.

Hopefully that quicker, more fluid "one touch" passing will start appearing once there is more of an understanding but at the moment it's painful to watch a side be so dominant in position yet create barely anything worthwhile.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Sanguine » 14 Sep 2016 09:35

Kermogant. Won almost everything in the air, good lay-offs, good link play. Noel Hunt would have loved to play with him

Don't disagree with this Snowball. I'd also say that Kermorgant is arguably our best forward in the air since Noel Hunt. Like a salmon!

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Snowball » 14 Sep 2016 09:39

CountryRoyal
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Sorry, what? :lol:

Just further compounding the notion that you are in fact mental.


Or, that he has a brain and you don't.

Enjoyed tonight and was going to offer some of my own thoughts but I think I'll leave it there.................


You think that we are ONE player away from being a top 2 side?

Ok then.... :|


Oh it's "I can't read" Country Royal again.

PUSHING the automatics has NEVER meant Reading "ARE "a top two side"

It means ""pushing", you know, "chasing", you know, AFTER the top 2-3, you know, "a bit below them", but "pushing them"

Currently, the sides "pushing the automatics" are Birmingham, (12 points) Fulham (12 points) and Norwich (14 points) and of course Barnsley on 15.

Had we had one of those strikers who turns a half-chance into a goal and had won yesterday (just yesterday alone) we'd be FOURTH on 13 points.

We had nine shots at Wolves and only one on target. We had 13 shots at Newcastle, only 3 on target and just the one goal, a pen.

Only an idiot would say that we would not be comfortably in the POs right now with a striker banging in goals.

But that does NOT mean that I think we would be top two come the season's end, does NOT mean we'd be third or fourth or fifth or six.

It means that IF we had a hot-streak striker, RIGHT NOW we would be not far off 15 points.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Sutekh » 14 Sep 2016 09:40

Sanguine Kermogant. Won almost everything in the air, good lay-offs, good link play. Noel Hunt would have loved to play with him

Don't disagree with this Snowball. I'd also say that Kermorgant is arguably our best forward in the air since Noel Hunt. Like a salmon!


However Kermorgant is not a solo striker, he needs someone to play off otherwise all his flicks and knock-ons don't go anywhere. I would have expected more from Beerens and McCleary in reading those flicks given we had 3 at the back (and that's another point, if you're going to play 3 at the back surely Blackett is the obvious choice rather than Evans or Berg) but there was still too large a disconnect there.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Snowball » 14 Sep 2016 09:41

Sanguine Kermogant. Won almost everything in the air, good lay-offs, good link play. Noel Hunt would have loved to play with him

Don't disagree with this Snowball. I'd also say that Kermorgant is arguably our best forward in the air since Noel Hunt. Like a salmon!


Yup, almost like it's crying out to be 442

I found it odd that Swift wasn't brought on to play off Kermie.

We need at least one player to play off him.

I get the idea that midfielders are suppose to break to pick up the knock-downs, but he looks like he needs a partner IMO


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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by John Madejski's Wallet » 14 Sep 2016 09:47

Ibrahimovic wouldn't have scored for us last night. A top striker will make no difference until the team figures out how to actually create chances.

Lots of nice possession but didn't make their keeper work at all. I feel like i'm on a loop from the Adkins era.

However, we do look better on the ball than under Adkins, so fingers crossed we can actually learn to attack at some point this season. And cross the frigging ball in a way that allows people to attack it!

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Snowball » 14 Sep 2016 09:53

You don't think Alfie would have got on the end of 2-3-4 of those flicks?

You don't think Kermie could have headed forward for Long on a run?

God knows why the wingers aren't in there picking up the pieces,
maybe cos they are wingers, but they don't look like they are gambling
on the flicks, and there are plenty of them. kermis wins almost every header.

I'd like to see Harriot have a go on the wing and maybe McCleary at ten if Swift isn't there.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Dennis the Butler » 14 Sep 2016 09:56

So 71% possession and the opposition still has more attempts on goal .. according to the BBC anyway .. I just don't get where this is leading, with or without another striker ..

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maneki Neko » 14 Sep 2016 09:58

Snowball
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Snowball With a striker in form we'd be pushing the automatics ATM.


Sorry, what? :lol:

Just further compounding the notion that you are in fact mental.


So with a striker in hot form, we wouldn't be one point better off (the play-offs)
or 2-3 points better off (14 points, one behind the automatics)?

?


stop forcing your dilusions on us you mental :lol:


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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maneki Neko » 14 Sep 2016 09:59

Snowball
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Snowball With a striker in form we'd be pushing the automatics ATM.


Sorry, what? :lol:

Just further compounding the notion that you are in fact mental.


So with a striker in hot form, we wouldn't be one point better off (the play-offs)
or 2-3 points better off (14 points, one behind the automatics)?

I don't for a second think we have a chance in hell of competing with the likes of Newcastle,
and I don't think we'll make the POs, either, but currently, facts are facts. We DON'T have a red-hot
striker in form, we AREN'T scoring goals despite the possession stats, and it is perfectly logical to imagine
(even it was temporary and a false dawn) that if we had someone doing really well goal-wise, we would be
"pushing the automatics".

Or are you saying if we had a Long or a Doyle or a Kitson at their best, we would NOT be comfortably in the PO positions and pressing 14-15 points?


I think even with an ALF we would have 3 more points

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by ladida_gunner_graham » 14 Sep 2016 09:59

Saaaaaaaammmmmm Williams infuriates me at the best of times, but tonight was on another level, suppose it's the result of an accumulation of frustrating performances from him

He just has no ball control whatsoever. The ball bounces off him for his first touch, and when dribbling he never once looks like he knows what he's doing or where he's going.

It was his passing tonight though that was driving me mad, lost count the amount of times we lost momentum because Williams played a simple pass poorly, usually behind Gunter or Obita stopping us from going forward. He literally has no excuse, an international footballer should know which side of a teammate to kick the ball to and be able to execute the simple pass, I cannot believe he gets it wrong nearly every time. Like I said, the player has to either slow down, or check back because the pass from Williams has prevented them running onto it or with it.

'Yeah but he brings energy' - so? Energy literally adds nothing to our team. Someone like Kante brings energy, but he uses it to win tackles and interceptions and drive his team forward. When does Williams ever make a tackle or break up the play? Come on Jaap, get Swift in so I can start finding another scapegoat.

As for the game, just incredibly boring I'm afraid. Lots of people on Twitter asking if there were any boos tonight (there weren't), but this is the thing, it's alright for you sat at home on Twitter, but a lot of us made a big commitment tonight to go the match, and ultimately it was an evening wasted. Personally, I had a few options for this Tuesday evening but I turned them down so I could go the game and having sat through 90 minutes of literally nothing happening, I really regret my decision. If games like this become a regular occurrence, I'm not sure I really want to commit to spending afternoons or evenings watching 75% possession with no excitement whatsoever. It's a lot of time and money (I have very little of either) to get to Reading for a game, so I could quickly lose patience with the team if we continue this 'transition season'.

Back to the pitch, thought formation was a bit strange, seemed Evans took my comments from the Ipswich game about not being a passing option literally and spent the whole game with the centre-backs. Meant we had McShane and Moore almost bombing down the flanks for a lot of the game.

Kermorgant was decent for 60 minutes, then got injured, but for some reason didn't come off? Meant he spent the last half hour hobbling around slowly, not really jumping for anything in the air, and as a result our attack completely fizzled out. Also felt the subs took too long, 10 minutes for Harriott and 5 for Mendes is a bit pointless really, and shame Swift only got 20.

McCleary was very bad unfortunately, crossing was completely awful. The slow drifted corner to the edge of the penalty area didn't work the first few times, so not sure why he kept at it. 12 corners with a decent set-piece taker might have led to something, but with Garath we never threatened. McShane had a header where he had no one within 5 yards of him, yet was never going to score because of where he was and the speed the ball came to him. Get Swift in the team and get him on corners.

Yes Birmingham results-wise are a decent team and had won 3 on the bounce, but if you have near 75% possession, you should be winning matches, or at least creating chances and scoring goals. I'm not sure how much of a miss Joey was, but hopefully he'll be back for the weekend and we can test ourselves against the league's top scorers on Saturday

+1 Thanks Sam, saved me the bother having to write exactly this. Comments earlier in this thread about McCleary playing well totally baffle me.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maneki Neko » 14 Sep 2016 10:02

Sutekh
Sanguine Kermogant. Won almost everything in the air, good lay-offs, good link play. Noel Hunt would have loved to play with him

Don't disagree with this Snowball. I'd also say that Kermorgant is arguably our best forward in the air since Noel Hunt. Like a salmon!


However Kermorgant is not a solo striker, he needs someone to play off otherwise all his flicks and knock-ons don't go anywhere. I would have expected more from Beerens and McCleary in reading those flicks given we had 3 at the back (and that's another point, if you're going to play 3 at the back surely Blackett is the obvious choice rather than Evans or Berg) but there was still too large a disconnect there.


winning in the air is great, but when you know there is no one beyond you, flicking it on is no good.
he needs to be heading it back at our own players, or our players need to be going past him every time he goes up for it, or we should try it in at his feet every now and then

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Gordons Cumming » 14 Sep 2016 10:04

Patience.............................


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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maneki Neko » 14 Sep 2016 10:05

John Madejski's Wallet Ibrahimovic wouldn't have scored for us last night. A top striker will make no difference until the team figures out how to actually create chances.

Lots of nice possession but didn't make their keeper work at all. I feel like i'm on a loop from the Adkins era.

However, we do look better on the ball than under Adkins, so fingers crossed we can actually learn to attack at some point this season. And cross the frigging ball in a way that allows people to attack it!


agree on that, a lot of floaty nonsense last night, from cross and corner.
give it some whip lads

nowt like adkins though, which would see us pass nervously between defenders, going backwards, until pressure got too much and they lumped it.
that simply isn't happening here.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maneki Neko » 14 Sep 2016 10:07

Snowball You don't think Alfie would have got on the end of 2-3-4 of those flicks?

You don't think Kermie could have headed forward for Long on a run?

God knows why the wingers aren't in there picking up the pieces,
maybe cos they are wingers, but they don't look like they are gambling
on the flicks, and there are plenty of them. kermis wins almost every header.

I'd like to see Harriot have a go on the wing and maybe McCleary at ten if Swift isn't there.


yeah.
I think the pace and directness of harriot and Samuel would make a real difference and give us options/outlet
thing is is that mcleary is also one of our better players, as is swift, and I don't think you can play them all, unless the full backs drop a bit- which would have been fine yesterday as they were hardly given the ball anyway

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maneki Neko » 14 Sep 2016 10:12

ladida_gunner_graham
Saaaaaaaammmmmm Williams infuriates me at the best of times, but tonight was on another level, suppose it's the result of an accumulation of frustrating performances from him

He just has no ball control whatsoever. The ball bounces off him for his first touch, and when dribbling he never once looks like he knows what he's doing or where he's going.

It was his passing tonight though that was driving me mad, lost count the amount of times we lost momentum because Williams played a simple pass poorly, usually behind Gunter or Obita stopping us from going forward. He literally has no excuse, an international footballer should know which side of a teammate to kick the ball to and be able to execute the simple pass, I cannot believe he gets it wrong nearly every time. Like I said, the player has to either slow down, or check back because the pass from Williams has prevented them running onto it or with it.

'Yeah but he brings energy' - so? Energy literally adds nothing to our team. Someone like Kante brings energy, but he uses it to win tackles and interceptions and drive his team forward. When does Williams ever make a tackle or break up the play? Come on Jaap, get Swift in so I can start finding another scapegoat.

As for the game, just incredibly boring I'm afraid. Lots of people on Twitter asking if there were any boos tonight (there weren't), but this is the thing, it's alright for you sat at home on Twitter, but a lot of us made a big commitment tonight to go the match, and ultimately it was an evening wasted. Personally, I had a few options for this Tuesday evening but I turned them down so I could go the game and having sat through 90 minutes of literally nothing happening, I really regret my decision. If games like this become a regular occurrence, I'm not sure I really want to commit to spending afternoons or evenings watching 75% possession with no excitement whatsoever. It's a lot of time and money (I have very little of either) to get to Reading for a game, so I could quickly lose patience with the team if we continue this 'transition season'.

Back to the pitch, thought formation was a bit strange, seemed Evans took my comments from the Ipswich game about not being a passing option literally and spent the whole game with the centre-backs. Meant we had McShane and Moore almost bombing down the flanks for a lot of the game.

Kermorgant was decent for 60 minutes, then got injured, but for some reason didn't come off? Meant he spent the last half hour hobbling around slowly, not really jumping for anything in the air, and as a result our attack completely fizzled out. Also felt the subs took too long, 10 minutes for Harriott and 5 for Mendes is a bit pointless really, and shame Swift only got 20.

McCleary was very bad unfortunately, crossing was completely awful. The slow drifted corner to the edge of the penalty area didn't work the first few times, so not sure why he kept at it. 12 corners with a decent set-piece taker might have led to something, but with Garath we never threatened. McShane had a header where he had no one within 5 yards of him, yet was never going to score because of where he was and the speed the ball came to him. Get Swift in the team and get him on corners.

Yes Birmingham results-wise are a decent team and had won 3 on the bounce, but if you have near 75% possession, you should be winning matches, or at least creating chances and scoring goals. I'm not sure how much of a miss Joey was, but hopefully he'll be back for the weekend and we can test ourselves against the league's top scorers on Saturday

+1 Thanks Sam, saved me the bother having to write exactly this. Comments earlier in this thread about McCleary playing well totally baffle me.


made some mistakes,(agree on the floaty nonsense) but pretty much won every one of our twelve corners, and delivered most of our crosses. and along with beerens was our only attacking threat.

hundred percent agree on Williams.
Quinn can provide energy, swift is required for creativity.
therefore...drop williams

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by winchester_royal » 14 Sep 2016 10:24

Dennis the Butler So 71% possession and the opposition still has more attempts on goal .. according to the BBC anyway .. I just don't get where this is leading, with or without another striker ..


Maybe, just maybe, the team will develop and get better at turning possession into chances as they become more accustomed to this style of play.

Crazy thought I know, but it could happen..

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Maguire » 14 Sep 2016 10:30

Maneki Neko
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Sorry, what? :lol:

Just further compounding the notion that you are in fact mental.


So with a striker in hot form, we wouldn't be one point better off (the play-offs)
or 2-3 points better off (14 points, one behind the automatics)?

?


stop forcing your dilusions on us you mental :lol:


I agree with Snowball. If we had better players and scored more goals then we'd be higher up the league.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by genome » 14 Sep 2016 10:32

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest if we had scored last night we would've won the game.

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Re: BFTG Birmingham

by Winston Smith » 14 Sep 2016 10:41

quie enjoyed last night. not sure why as we got nowhere near scoring but I guess it just seemed like for the first time in 2-3 years there was some clear thinking about what to do and we have a system they are working hard at. Possession play is all well and good but can surely only be one part of a bigger overall plan. still, only 7 games in, look much stronger at the back, a new plan clearly being worked at and JS says promotion is not achievable this season, he says top half as the plan he has will take a couple of years to get together, so can't really complain much I guess.

liked the 3 CB's last night. thought the 3/5 defender thing transitioned well from defending to attacking.

we deffo need something more up front but 7 games in and JS gives me enough confidence to believe he has plans he is working on.

Williams has no football intelligence. rarely ever makes the most of the possession he has and often runs and runs and runs before looking up and realising he is across the other side of the pitch and has gone past 3 of 4 of the best opportunities to set something up, so turns round and knocks it back again.

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