Stams Tactics

paddy20
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Stams Tactics

by paddy20 » 27 Nov 2017 10:28

Overall I think we have a strong team of players. Stams reasoning as to why we didn't score was largely based on Sheff Wed parking the bus.

How then does he explain that they have conceded goals in every away game bar one? What do these other teams do that we don't?

Having spoken to an ex- Reading player in his view the problem is that you can't play 5 across the back with wing backs as well as having 2 wingers. If you play that system you need 2 very creative proper midfielders not wingers you try to move inside.

Ideally you need to supply quickly fast wingers with the ball on the half way line and let them run at their defence. Reading have 2/3 great wingers. This is how we have played in the past and it has been largely successful

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Stranded » 27 Nov 2017 10:52

paddy20
How then does he explain that they have conceded goals in every away game bar one? What do these other teams do that we don't?



Hit the target?

Wasn't a great game but we created some decent openings where we should have hit the target, Aluko first half and Barrow in the 2nd immediately come to mind where they should have done much better. Didn't we have something like 15 attempts on goal but only 1 on target ? That was the main problem on Saturday.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by TiagoIlori » 27 Nov 2017 11:07

We’ve just simply been worked out, the system has to be completely changed to have any chance of doing well

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Re: Stams Tactics

by paddy20 » 27 Nov 2017 11:20

Stranded
paddy20
How then does he explain that they have conceded goals in every away game bar one? What do these other teams do that we don't?



Hit the target?

Wasn't a great game but we created some decent openings where we should have hit the target, Aluko first half and Barrow in the 2nd immediately come to mind where they should have done much better. Didn't we have something like 15 attempts on goal but only 1 on target ? That was the main problem on Saturday.


Having watched the game I can only re-call about 3/4 chances if that. They say on average you score 2 out of 7 good chances. I agree we could have done better with those chances but overall I just don't think we are creating enough of them

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Re: Stams Tactics

by paultheroyal » 27 Nov 2017 11:55

TiagoIlori We’ve just simply been worked out, the system has to be completely changed to have any chance of doing well


Not a case of being worked out - you can play that way as long as you adapt to situation or get better at playing that way!!

Most if not all teams have styles of play - its how good you are at it which matters.


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Re: Stams Tactics

by Theroyalbox » 27 Nov 2017 12:00

I think Stam is getting closer to getting his tactics right, I don't necessarily see it as 5 at the back, I would say it starts as 4-3-3 and as the full backs push on Joey drops in to CB. What Reading are missing is someone to pick that ball up of of Joey when he gets it. Aluko often tries but is marked out of pretty much every single Reading game he has played so far, which frees up room for Barrow. When Swift Aluko and Barrow play that's when we have too many threats for opposition to deal with.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Stranded » 27 Nov 2017 12:25

paddy20
Stranded
paddy20
How then does he explain that they have conceded goals in every away game bar one? What do these other teams do that we don't?



Hit the target?

Wasn't a great game but we created some decent openings where we should have hit the target, Aluko first half and Barrow in the 2nd immediately come to mind where they should have done much better. Didn't we have something like 15 attempts on goal but only 1 on target ? That was the main problem on Saturday.


Having watched the game I can only re-call about 3/4 chances if that. They say on average you score 2 out of 7 good chances. I agree we could have done better with those chances but overall I just don't think we are creating enough of them


So using your stats, if we created 3/4 chances and you score 2 from 7, then we should have scored 1? Barrow in particular had the time to take a touch and finish, instead he tripped over his own feet - not much that tactics can do about that.

Our expected goals, if you buy in to that, for the game was 1.4 so would suggest we created good enough chances to win the game but couldn't take them.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by SCIAG » 27 Nov 2017 12:34

paddy20 Having spoken to an ex- Reading player in his view the problem is that you can't play 5 across the back with wing backs as well as having 2 wingers. If you play that system you need 2 very creative proper midfielders not wingers you try to move inside.

I don't think this is right at all.

Firstly, we didn't play 5-2-3. I think we were playing 4-3-3. Yes, Joey would often drop deep when we had an attack, but he wasn't playing as a centre back, he was doing what defensive midfielders do.

I also completely disagree that our shape cannot possibly work. Several successful teams have used that shape. Chelsea currently play 5-2-3 and they won the league last season. Barcelona use a similar shape, with Busquets (and before him the likes of Edmilson, Van Bommel, and Marquez) dropping between the centre backs while the full-backs push right up. Both of them use at least one inverted winger, while Barrow was hogging our left touchline. Barcelona's central midfielders are always very creative, true, but Chelsea used two defensive midfielders for most of last season, and this year there have been times that they've used three.

As I saw it, the issues on Saturday were 1) not taking our chances, 2) Aluko often not being in positions where he could be threatening, 3) lack of penetration from the central players, 4) reluctance for the centre backs to pass to their full back, 5) a few unfortunate mistakes when we tried to break and pace, and most importantly 6) not taking our chances.

Swift in for Edwards and Ilori in for McShane will make a big difference. It would also be good if Beerens and McCleary could get back to last season's form so we have more options in the wide positions.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Hound » 27 Nov 2017 12:46

I don't totally disagree with the OP. With Joey dropping so deep, Bacuna esp was basically playing RW second half. I'm guessing thats why Aluko went walkabout

Aluko should have moved right up alongside Yann and just tucked in inside imo, or even as a #10 - as Bacuna basically owned that flank. Barrow was hugging the wing a lot more. It did leave us a little unbalanced, and Aluko was wasted second half


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Re: Stams Tactics

by Victor Meldrew » 27 Nov 2017 12:54

SCIAG
paddy20 Having spoken to an ex- Reading player in his view the problem is that you can't play 5 across the back with wing backs as well as having 2 wingers. If you play that system you need 2 very creative proper midfielders not wingers you try to move inside.

I don't think this is right at all.

Firstly, we didn't play 5-2-3. I think we were playing 4-3-3. Yes, Joey would often drop deep when we had an attack, but he wasn't playing as a centre back, he was doing what defensive midfielders do.

I also completely disagree that our shape cannot possibly work. Several successful teams have used that shape. Chelsea currently play 5-2-3 and they won the league last season. Barcelona use a similar shape, with Busquets (and before him the likes of Edmilson, Van Bommel, and Marquez) dropping between the centre backs while the full-backs push right up. Both of them use at least one inverted winger, while Barrow was hogging our left touchline. Barcelona's central midfielders are always very creative, true, but Chelsea used two defensive midfielders for most of last season, and this year there have been times that they've used three.

As I saw it, the issues on Saturday were 1) not taking our chances, 2) Aluko often not being in positions where he could be threatening, 3) lack of penetration from the central players, 4) reluctance for the centre backs to pass to their full back, 5) a few unfortunate mistakes when we tried to break and pace, and most importantly 6) not taking our chances.

Swift in for Edwards and Ilori in for McShane will make a big difference. It would also be good if Beerens and McCleary could get back to last season's form so we have more options in the wide positions.


The difference between us and Barcelona and Chelsea is not just that they have better players and score more goals it is that the passing is done much further up the field and so much quicker.
I hope our manager and players watched Man City yesterday to see how the system and tactic can work when your back players push up further and the midfielders collect and play passes where they matter, in and around the opposition box.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Sutekh » 27 Nov 2017 13:44

Anyone got the stats for the number of on target shots Reading have had in league games this season

And for comparison how does that stand up against last season?

Impression I have is it wasn't particularly brilliant last season but the conversion rate was high whereas as this season it's largely been worse all round.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 27 Nov 2017 14:46

For me, Stam is worrying too much about what the opposition are capable of instead of letting them worry about us (at home anyway). By all means adapt the style/playing staff to counter the opposition away from home unless they're really struggling but at home just go for it.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by TiagoIlori » 27 Nov 2017 15:25

paultheroyal
TiagoIlori We’ve just simply been worked out, the system has to be completely changed to have any chance of doing well


Not a case of being worked out - you can play that way as long as you adapt to situation or get better at playing that way!!

Most if not all teams have styles of play - its how good you are at it which matters.

Can’t help but think the system just is too complex for championship players, Stam wants our players to remain composed under pressure, we seem to panic and lose the ball when there’s minimal pressure


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Re: Stams Tactics

by Forbury Lion » 27 Nov 2017 16:55

Theroyalbox I think Stam is getting closer to getting his tactics right
That could be great news for his next employer because if we drop further down the table the board may feel there isn't time for him to get things right.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Nov 2017 17:00

Theroyalbox I think Stam is getting closer to getting his tactics right, I don't necessarily see it as 5 at the back, I would say it starts as 4-3-3 and as the full backs push on Joey drops in to CB. What Reading are missing is someone to pick that ball up of of Joey when he gets it. Aluko often tries but is marked out of pretty much every single Reading game he has played so far, which frees up room for Barrow. When Swift Aluko and Barrow play that's when we have too many threats for opposition to deal with.

Yhis is it exactly, if you playpassing football, you need to have multiple players looking to break the lines and find space. Not just all your midfielders, wingers, strikers and fullbacks pushing on to a packed defensive line on the edge of the final third.

Two drop deep, one runs long diagonal, striker sits. Thats gotto to open up space somewhere.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Oilroyal » 27 Nov 2017 17:42

Tilehurstsouthbank For me, Stam is worrying too much about what the opposition are capable of instead of letting them worry about us (at home anyway). By all means adapt the style/playing staff to counter the opposition away from home unless they're really struggling but at home just go for it.


100%

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Re: Stams Tactics

by CountryRoyal » 28 Nov 2017 04:59

Sutekh Anyone got the stats for the number of on target shots Reading have had in league games this season

And for comparison how does that stand up against last season?

Impression I have is it wasn't particularly brilliant last season but the conversion rate was high whereas as this season it's largely been worse all round.


2016/17
Shots per game: 11.8 (18th)
On target per game: 4.2 (10th)

2017/18
Shots per game: 11.2 (20th)
On target per game: 3.6 (20th)

In brackets are our position relevant to the rest of the league.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Royal_jimmy » 28 Nov 2017 05:59

CountryRoyal
Sutekh Anyone got the stats for the number of on target shots Reading have had in league games this season

And for comparison how does that stand up against last season?

Impression I have is it wasn't particularly brilliant last season but the conversion rate was high whereas as this season it's largely been worse all round.


2016/17
Shots per game: 11.8 (18th)
On target per game: 4.2 (10th)

2017/18
Shots per game: 11.2 (20th)
On target per game: 3.6 (20th)

In brackets are our position relevant to the rest of the league.


Sums up how much we relied on Kermorgant for clinical finishing and Ali Al Habsi for crucial saves. Without both we've looked toothless

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Re: Stams Tactics

by leon » 28 Nov 2017 07:56

Movement, pace and stretching the play.

Midfield needs to drop receive the ball, movement around them to give them options and also pull the opposition around.

What actually happens is the team is static the defence gets frustrated passing to each other because there are no other options and one of them (eg McShane ) brings the ball into midfield as a result everything gets compressed, making the situation even worse.

Tbf to Stam this has been an issue since Adkins - except we don’t now have Guthrie trying lofted 40 yard balls that get intercepted.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by OLLIE KEARNS » 28 Nov 2017 14:24

The system is fluid and everyone knows their roles. Cente backs split in possession, full backs become wing backs etc,etc. It’s a similar style to sides that have got out of the Championship and then stayed up so I can understand the long term plan. The only problem at present is that we’re not quite good enough to execute it.
McShane was a good example on Saturday in that he often needed 4 touches to move the ball on instead of a first time pass to the pushed on full back. You then have Illori who can pass quickly but can be a defensive liability. Which one do you pick ?
Further up the pitch we don’t have the pace to stretch sides which makes passing through the thirds difficult. It also means Barrow and Aluko rarely get the chance to come on to the ball as opposed to getting it with their back to goal. When they do they both look dangerous.
The point of interest is whether or not Stam can bring about the small upgrades (player improvement / new players) that would just improve us by say 5%. If he can then we have the potential to be a Swansea or Bournemouth.
The other frustration at present is that sides know were not quite good enough to play this way and that we will make mistakes and give goals away. Hence every side sitting in and biding their time. It does make for some pretty boring football at times so let’s hope the extra 5% is not too far away !!

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