BFTG Leeds Home

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Coppells Lost Coat
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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Coppells Lost Coat » 14 Mar 2019 09:12

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I'd be happy enough to start McCleary - Meite - Barrow for a few weeks if no one else comes back from fitness


LOL at injured players back in a few weeks. We can only dream of medical staff that can make that happen.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by LWJ » 14 Mar 2019 09:13

Old Man Andrews
SCIAG Swift literally scored in our last match.


You are aware there is a lot more to it than scoring goals? The bloke is a midfielder, he has responsibilities within the game to track back, tackle, hold the ball up, pass accurately and have a decent level of fitness. John Swift is a show pony, he is unfit and he is lazy. Can he score the odd free kick here and there? Sure. Have a look at Barry Bannan if you want to see what a complete midfielder is, he does it all. That is waht Swift should aspire to be but instead in his mind he thinks he has made it, he is happy picking up his 10k a week and putting in 5/10 performances. We should get rid in the summer and bring in a younger, fitter and hungrier midfielder.

I'm not sure how anyone can genuinely say Swift doesn't track back. He might lose the ball trying a fancy flick or running at a defender, but that's literally his job, he has to find the pass or beat the man. HE IS OUR ATTACKING MIDFIELDER.

If I was to pick one player who seems to be chasing everything throughout the game it's Swift. He closes the defenders down, he chases back into the corners, he puts more effort in than the majority of the squad.

I'd love to see his distance covered figures. I'd wager they are probably the highest on the team.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 09:14

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Snowflake Royal Swift can oxf*rd off. Biggest waste of space since Royston. Total passenger.

Wow, you've really outdone yourself there.


I do wonder sometimes if its people taking offence to the way he looks, or just he is the type of player who always splits a fan base

I mean that Sky Sports thing they do have had him as our best player virtually all season, and was 4th most on form player in the division in their ratings last week (based on previous 5 games I believe). I'm the last one to just rely on stats, and don't know how its worked out, but he must be doing something right.

He has also scored twice recently and a great assist for Oliveira vs Blackburn. I don't buy the 'lazy' tag at all - maybe he could use his energy a little better at times, he is soft and weak but doesnt shy out of trying to challenge. Along with Moore he is always the one who claps the fans at the end, he seems to have a decent attitude etc.

I think he's had a couple of poor games this week (partly due to both Leeds and Wigan sticking someone right on him), but previous to that had been doing well

When I see stuff like ' A total passenger' it just makes me switch off tbh. A shame as heresy as it is, Ian is a decent poster 95% of the time

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 09:16

LWJ
Old Man Andrews
SCIAG Swift literally scored in our last match.


You are aware there is a lot more to it than scoring goals? The bloke is a midfielder, he has responsibilities within the game to track back, tackle, hold the ball up, pass accurately and have a decent level of fitness. John Swift is a show pony, he is unfit and he is lazy. Can he score the odd free kick here and there? Sure. Have a look at Barry Bannan if you want to see what a complete midfielder is, he does it all. That is waht Swift should aspire to be but instead in his mind he thinks he has made it, he is happy picking up his 10k a week and putting in 5/10 performances. We should get rid in the summer and bring in a younger, fitter and hungrier midfielder.

I'm not sure how anyone can genuinely say Swift doesn't track back. He might lose the ball trying a fancy flick or running at a defender, but that's literally his job, he has to find the pass or beat the man. HE IS OUR ATTACKING MIDFIELDER.

If I was to pick one player who seems to be chasing everything throughout the game it's Swift. He closes the defenders down, he chases back into the corners, he puts more effort in than the majority of the squad.

I'd love to see his distance covered figures. I'd wager they are probably the highest on the team.


Absolutely 100% +1

Will add though that he isn't very good defensively when he actually has tracked back though

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Old Man Andrews » 14 Mar 2019 09:18

Complete and utter nonsense. Baffling opinions.


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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Snowball » 14 Mar 2019 09:46

Old Man Andrews Complete and utter nonsense. Baffling opinions.



Nice Sig!

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 09:56

yep, its not just opinions either, its stats backed.

Take Wigan, where I thought he had a poor game.

WhoScored rates him as our star man, at 7.7. 3 tackles won (though he never tackles apparently), 86% pass success rate, a massive 6.5% of possession in the game, and even won an aerial duel.

Even Leeds, where he got bullied, and I fully admit was awful, he still put in 2 tackles, was rated at 6.0 as our 5th best player, and had 4.6 possession in the game

To call that being a passenger is ridiculous

Any you can go back further as much as you like. Nearly every game he is in our top performers, has high pass percentage rate, high possession stats and makes a few tackles.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by ladida_gunner_graham » 14 Mar 2019 10:23

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John Smith We were alright we just weren't brave or physical enough, in the sense that their players were much stronger. There were times when Barrow and Loader could have drawn fouls and cards from Leeds players. The midfield battle clearly lacked steel but we can put this down partly to injuries.

I'd get our lot on the weights personally.


We looked lightweight but it was so much more than that. Leeds worked harder. They pressed us so much more than we did to them. Often one of our players ran down a cul de sac with no one offering for a pass and with two opponents bearing down on him. In contrast Leeds always seemed to have options.
We were also so slow to react at times. Leeds would take a short corner and our lot were switched off.

This was an issue throughout the game. Fine, play out from the back by all means, but the players at the back who receive the ball, need options to move the play up the pitch. Contrast the options Leeds defenders had in sumilar positions. Miazga and Moore in particular ended up attempting 50 yard passes (and consequently looking terrible) as there were no reasonable available alternatives.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by LWJ » 14 Mar 2019 10:50

One thing I noticed with Leeds compared to us, when our defenders had the ball whoever was man marking Swift came with him wherever he went. Meaning that the space between there press was a lot smaller.

When we press with our top 3 + Swift, Baker and East were very fixed and rigid and that meant there were constant gaps between our press and defensive midfielders, meaning Leeds had a lot more space and time.

Also Barrow is useless in the air, leave him stood on the halfway line at defending corners so we can use his pace to counter ffs


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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 11:00

LWJ One thing I noticed with Leeds compared to us, when our defenders had the ball whoever was man marking Swift came with him wherever he went. Meaning that the space between there press was a lot smaller.

When we press with our top 3 + Swift, Baker and East were very fixed and rigid and that meant there were constant gaps between our press and defensive midfielders, meaning Leeds had a lot more space and time.

Also Barrow is useless in the air, leave him stood on the halfway line at defending corners so we can use his pace to counter ffs


Its a good observation. I noticed particularly on their wings, whenever we pressed they always had a man available around the half way line out wide. Completely negated what we were trying to do, and quite often left them 2 on 1 against our fullback. Its obviously something they've worked on

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Vision » 14 Mar 2019 11:08

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LWJ One thing I noticed with Leeds compared to us, when our defenders had the ball whoever was man marking Swift came with him wherever he went. Meaning that the space between there press was a lot smaller.

When we press with our top 3 + Swift, Baker and East were very fixed and rigid and that meant there were constant gaps between our press and defensive midfielders, meaning Leeds had a lot more space and time.

Also Barrow is useless in the air, leave him stood on the halfway line at defending corners so we can use his pace to counter ffs


Its a good observation. I noticed particularly on their wings, whenever we pressed they always had a man available around the half way line out wide. Completely negated what we were trying to do, and quite often left them 2 on 1 against our fullback. Its obviously something they've worked on


Anytime I've watched them , they switch play from wing to wing very frequently. They don't always succeed which is why they misplaced a few passes directly out of play more than most teams but it's a definite feature of their style.

What they also did and we never got to grips with it was Bamford coming short and having midfielders and full backs running ahead of him. Our centre halves never really came with him and our midfielders didn't pressure him either as they were concerned with the midfield runners. He didn't have his shooting boots on but he was hugely influential in the game.

It's one of the things that Oliveira gives us when he plays that no-one else in our set up seems capable of.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 12:31

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LWJ
Snowflake Royal Swift can oxf*rd off. Biggest waste of space since Royston. Total passenger.

Wow, you've really outdone yourself there.



Additional to this, and I know you're a fan of WhoScored Ian, compare him and your mate Kelly on there.

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94/Show/England-Reading

Offensively Swift has significantly more shots, key passes, dribbles, and also gets dispossessed far more and has more poor touches on the negative (all about 3* more than Kelly)

Defensively has slightly less tackles (1.6 - 1.4), blocks (0.2 - 0.1), clearances (0.8-0.7) and interceptions (1.2-0.8 )

passing, Swift has an average of 45.7 per game at 86% accuracy. Kelly has 40.1 at 81.6%

Obviously adding this lot up, Swifts overall score of 6.87 is well ahead of Kelly at 6.54

Think youre picking on the wrong guy as the passenger tbh

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by URZZZZ » 14 Mar 2019 12:56

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LWJ Wow, you've really outdone yourself there.



Additional to this, and I know you're a fan of WhoScored Ian, compare him and your mate Kelly on there.

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94/Show/England-Reading

Offensively Swift has significantly more shots, key passes, dribbles, and also gets dispossessed far more and has more poor touches on the negative (all about 3* more than Kelly)

Defensively has slightly less tackles (1.6 - 1.4), blocks (0.2 - 0.1), clearances (0.8-0.7) and interceptions (1.2-0.8 )

passing, Swift has an average of 45.7 per game at 86% accuracy. Kelly has 40.1 at 81.6%

Obviously adding this lot up, Swifts overall score of 6.87 is well ahead of Kelly at 6.54

Think youre picking on the wrong guy as the passenger tbh


I personally hate stats like this, each to their own and all that, but take someone like George Evans. He'll look good with his 95% passing accuracy but if you delve deeper into the game, you'd realise that his passes are all safe 3 yard passes around the defence. I'm not saying Swift is like this, but in general I do tend to ignore stats like this to form an argument

As for Swifty, there's no denying he's got talent, but his application is shocking, which is why he'd be one of the first I'd ship out. On a good day, he can control a game, but his good days are far from regular

I personally think the reasons why opposition fans/rating sites do rate him higher than the regular poster is because they remember his standout moments in a game. Whether that's a decent freekick he takes, or a defence splitting ball, that will etch into the memory. What I see is someone that's painfully slow on the ball who is dispossessed regularly but can deliver a moment of magic occasionally

In a relegation dogfight, we don't need players like this. Yeah, when it's all pretty, and we're at the top of the table, we can afford a player like Swift, someone who can do something from nothing. But whilst we're in this situation, we need 11 players to pull their weight, and whilst he's not the only one, he doesn't do it enough which is why I personally don't want to see him start games


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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by El Diablo » 14 Mar 2019 13:31

Is Ian actually attending games currently?

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 13:36

I enjoy reading stats but likewise don’t base all my opinion on them, but the contrast between those two players is very stark and really needs to be accepted

Also those stats aren't massaged, they are simple stats about tackles, passes, dribbles etc. If I was just basing it on 100 small passes per game I'd ignore. Evans couldn't get 95% accuracy if he was just passing between his left and right foot mind you

For me, Swift is a talented hard working player who a) is too soft - hence losing possession b) careless on ball at times and c) doesn’t always choose the right option and d) probably playing deeper than he should

I think similar to you in that it it’s his stand out moments that stick in the memory - but the problem being for our fans it’s the time he gets easily knocked off the ball, makes a careless pass. The constant moving of the ball, being available etc is forgotten

Plus sense there’s a bit of the fact he’s a fairly good looking lad with a flash haircut playing a role that needs a bit of flair. Always going to get picked on

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Snowflake Royal » 14 Mar 2019 13:50

Hound
Hound
LWJ Wow, you've really outdone yourself there.



Additional to this, and I know you're a fan of WhoScored Ian, compare him and your mate Kelly on there.

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94/Show/England-Reading

Offensively Swift has significantly more shots, key passes, dribbles, and also gets dispossessed far more and has more poor touches on the negative (all about 3* more than Kelly)

Defensively has slightly less tackles (1.6 - 1.4), blocks (0.2 - 0.1), clearances (0.8-0.7) and interceptions (1.2-0.8 )

passing, Swift has an average of 45.7 per game at 86% accuracy. Kelly has 40.1 at 81.6%

Obviously adding this lot up, Swifts overall score of 6.87 is well ahead of Kelly at 6.54

Think youre picking on the wrong guy as the passenger tbh

I value Whoscored for its reasonably accurate objective statistics. I dont value it for the value it applies to those to come up with a more subjective rating. Especially as I recognise it cant capture everything important.

Ive done several comparisons of our midfielders defensive qualities based on their stats and in comparison Swift is usually one of our worst. Im sure I did one in the last couple of months.

What Whoscored cant measure is when Swift isnt present to make a challenge or doesnt chase someone, which is frequently (Kelly's tracking is weak too). Nor can it measure when he takes too many touches, takes someone on unnecessarily, takes the wrong pass or delays the right pass.

Swift should be challenging for 8 goals a season and about the same assists. Even with his recent couple he's at 3 and 3. If he's not going to deliver end product he needs to deliver more elsewhere.

I'm fed up of the easy ride he gets for the odd flash pass or turn that leads to nothing because people are easily impressed. I'm out of patience and so I really don't care about trying to be fair any more.

Normally I rate your judgement but I think you're soft on him and harsh on Kelly, not that I think Kelly is particularly good, but there's bugger all decent competition in the less attacking midfield slots. My recent criticism of Gomes on Kelly is based most on what Gomes said, rather than how Kelly has played.

Swift is passable at No. 10, but he needs to score and create more to justify his place there.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 14:00

Don't fully disagree Ian, and a fair response

I just think the opposite - I think he gets a tougher time than he deserves. I can accept some of the criticism - the occasional slow thinking, the lacks of concentration and being pushed off the ball too easily. But the positives outweigh the negatives for me

Interestingly, I think Nor can it measure when he takes too many touches, takes someone on unnecessarily, takes the wrong pass or delays the right pass. is actually demonstrated quite well in the stats by the number of times he gets dispossessed or a poor touch and loses it

He is an easy target, and an easy person to blame for what is a team issue - a team lacking in confidence, quality and movement.

Kelly is a whole different subject. Again, the stats fit in with my opinion of him that he just doesn't do enough of anything well to be of much use. Tackling is low, pass percentage pretty poor, key passes poor etc. Just don't know what he offers.

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by URZZZZ » 14 Mar 2019 14:08

He’s an easy target because we know he can do it. The thing that frustrates me is his consistency. He ran the show against Rotherham in the first half, he was unplayable at times with ejaria but both were pathetic second half

There are others who are just consistently average across a game. They won’t recieve criticism because whilst they don’t really do breakthrough moments in a game, they don’t make as many mistakes as swift

That is the role of a creative player (to make risks) but when you’re 2-0 down in a game and someone’s trying little flicks which don’t work, it’ll irritate people more than a simple give away

Plus he’s from Chelsea so I think he has high expectations with him

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Hound » 14 Mar 2019 14:10

yep, fair.

Ejaria is basically Swift mk2. Good player but both incredibly frustrating

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Re: BFTG Leeds Home

by Zip » 14 Mar 2019 19:07

In Swift’s defence the lack of options he has available to him is piss poor a lot of the time. If we are going to play a passing game then it might just help if the players show a lot more movement and make themselves available to receive a pass.

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