Player of the season so far...

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by NewCorkSeth » 17 Feb 2020 12:13

Nameless
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Nameless Have to say as soon as someone quotes junk stats as a basis for choosing POTS I lose interest.....
Assists are such a meaningless stat in a team game where often multiple players contribute to a goal.
I'd also be confident that both Moore and Morrison have made more goal saving blocks than either Swift or Ejaria have been credited with pseudo 'assists'.

Interesting as well that defenders are not eligible because we've been solid as a unit so the award must go to an attacker when we've been pretty rubbish as an attacking force !
I reckon our POTS should come from the part of the team where we are strongest....

Goal saving blocks is as meaningless as assists. Many players contribute to it.


OK, on the one hand that's fundamentally wrong and on the other hand I guess you are agreeing with me !

If assists are a useless stat because multiple people are involved in the contribution then it is frequently the same for defensive blocks. For example if Moore was to get a good block on an onrushing defender that might only have been possible due to Morrison covering behind, Richards blocking a pass to the wing and Pele closing down from behind. Team effort.

Assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates. Sure you can say "it wouldnt have happened if player b didnt make the run out wide pulling a player out of position" but they still have to get the pass right and make the right pass.

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by sandman » 17 Feb 2020 12:42

If Swift is ever in need of a new agent Seth is his man. :lol:

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Feb 2020 12:56

Absolutely staggered that anyone would exclude Swift from the top three. Hands down, stand out player. Improved his performance immeasurably from last season too.

Even when he's on a run of less good performances he's still creating genuine chances.

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Snowball » 17 Feb 2020 12:57

NewCorkSeth
Nameless
NewCorkSeth Goal saving blocks is as meaningless as assists. Many players contribute to it.


OK, on the one hand that's fundamentally wrong and on the other hand I guess you are agreeing with me !

If assists are a useless stat because multiple people are involved in the contribution then it is frequently the same for defensive blocks. For example if Moore was to get a good block on an onrushing defender that might only have been possible due to Morrison covering behind, Richards blocking a pass to the wing and Pele closing down from behind. Team effort.

Assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates. Sure you can say "it wouldnt have happened if player b didnt make the run out wide pulling a player out of position" but they still have to get the pass right and make the right pass.


We should have assists, half-assists, quarter-assists and eighth-assists,
that should cover it

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by NewCorkSeth » 17 Feb 2020 12:58

sandman If Swift is ever in need of a new agent Seth is his man. :lol:

Dream job. Actually sounds like a lot of work. Maybe I could be his hype man.


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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Sutekh » 17 Feb 2020 13:57

Top 4 for me have been

Mr Swift
Mr Ejaria
Mr Gunter
Mr Pele

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by URZZZZ » 17 Feb 2020 14:02

1. Swift
2. Morrison
3. Rafael
4. Moore
5. Pele

If Meite, Ejaria, Yiadom etc can improve consistency in the last bit of the season, they'll be in for a late shout too

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by PistolPete » 17 Feb 2020 14:11

1. Swift
2. Ejaria
3. Pele
4. Rafael
5. Meite

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Nameless » 17 Feb 2020 15:07

NewCorkSeth
Nameless
NewCorkSeth Goal saving blocks is as meaningless as assists. Many players contribute to it.


OK, on the one hand that's fundamentally wrong and on the other hand I guess you are agreeing with me !

If assists are a useless stat because multiple people are involved in the contribution then it is frequently the same for defensive blocks. For example if Moore was to get a good block on an onrushing defender that might only have been possible due to Morrison covering behind, Richards blocking a pass to the wing and Pele closing down from behind. Team effort.

Assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates. Sure you can say "it wouldnt have happened if player b didnt make the run out wide pulling a player out of position" but they still have to get the pass right and make the right pass.


No, fundamentally wrong !
Assists don't show anything really, the key pass of a move might have been 4 or 5 passes back. Did Puscas create Meite's goal on Saturday with his dummy or was it Ejaria's pass ?
The defensive blocks in question have been players throwing themselves in front of shots, absolutely nothing to do with any other player.
You are not going to convince anyone, so give up now....


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Re: Player of the season so far...

by NewCorkSeth » 17 Feb 2020 15:18

Nameless
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Nameless
OK, on the one hand that's fundamentally wrong and on the other hand I guess you are agreeing with me !

If assists are a useless stat because multiple people are involved in the contribution then it is frequently the same for defensive blocks. For example if Moore was to get a good block on an onrushing defender that might only have been possible due to Morrison covering behind, Richards blocking a pass to the wing and Pele closing down from behind. Team effort.

Assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates. Sure you can say "it wouldnt have happened if player b didnt make the run out wide pulling a player out of position" but they still have to get the pass right and make the right pass.


No, fundamentally wrong !
Assists don't show anything really, the key pass of a move might have been 4 or 5 passes back. Did Puscas create Meite's goal on Saturday with his dummy or was it Ejaria's pass ?
The defensive blocks in question have been players throwing themselves in front of shots, absolutely nothing to do with any other player.
You are not going to convince anyone, so give up now....

Lol. Nice try.

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leon
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by leon » 17 Feb 2020 15:30

NewCorkSeth
Nameless
NewCorkSeth If assists are a useless stat because multiple people are involved in the contribution then it is frequently the same for defensive blocks. For example if Moore was to get a good block on an onrushing defender that might only have been possible due to Morrison covering behind, Richards blocking a pass to the wing and Pele closing down from behind. Team effort.

Assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates. Sure you can say "it wouldnt have happened if player b didnt make the run out wide pulling a player out of position" but they still have to get the pass right and make the right pass.


No, fundamentally wrong !
Assists don't show anything really, the key pass of a move might have been 4 or 5 passes back. Did Puscas create Meite's goal on Saturday with his dummy or was it Ejaria's pass ?
The defensive blocks in question have been players throwing themselves in front of shots, absolutely nothing to do with any other player.
You are not going to convince anyone, so give up now....

Lol. Nice try.


Mans got a point.

Football is more complicated than you’re making out.

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by NewCorkSeth » 17 Feb 2020 15:36

leon
NewCorkSeth
Nameless
No, fundamentally wrong !
Assists don't show anything really, the key pass of a move might have been 4 or 5 passes back. Did Puscas create Meite's goal on Saturday with his dummy or was it Ejaria's pass ?
The defensive blocks in question have been players throwing themselves in front of shots, absolutely nothing to do with any other player.
You are not going to convince anyone, so give up now....

Lol. Nice try.


Mans got a point.

Football is more complicated than you’re making out.

Bruh. I said "assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates" and you think that is simplifying football?

I said if assists are a junk stat based on the other factors involved then it's the same for defensive blocks and I'm the one who is simplifying football?

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Stranded
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Stranded » 17 Feb 2020 15:37

Simply assists are not worthless but perhaps not as vital as made out but if a player gathers a lot of assists it shows that he is either taking up good attacking positions more often than not and/or playing the ball into dangerous areas.


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leon
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by leon » 17 Feb 2020 15:37

NewCorkSeth
leon
NewCorkSeth Lol. Nice try.


Mans got a point.

Football is more complicated than you’re making out.

Bruh. I said "assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates" and you think that is simplifying football?

I said if assists are a junk stat based on the other factors involved then it's the same for defensive blocks and I'm the one who is simplifying football?


Whatever.

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Hendo
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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Hendo » 17 Feb 2020 15:37

Stranded Simply assists are not worthless but perhaps not as vital as made out but if a player gathers a lot of assists it shows that he is either taking up good attacking positions more often than not and/or playing the ball into dangerous areas.


Or takes a lot of set pieces, if that team is particularly strong on that aspect of the game.

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Nameless » 17 Feb 2020 15:44

NewCorkSeth
leon
NewCorkSeth Lol. Nice try.


Mans got a point.

Football is more complicated than you’re making out.

Bruh. I said "assists are a useful metric to show how many chances a player creates" and you think that is simplifying football?

I said if assists are a junk stat based on the other factors involved then it's the same for defensive blocks and I'm the one who is simplifying football?


Not simplifying it, just not really making a very good job of arguing your case !
It's obvious that many goals result from the work of a number of players. Sometimes (Puscas v Cardiff for example) a player creates a goal pretty much on their own but that's rare.
In the example of the sort of defensive blocks Moore and Morrison have pulled off this season they were absolutely one man efforts, throwing themselves in front of an attacker as they shoot to stop a goal bound effort. you simply are failing to recognise that the two are totally incomparable.
I think your problem is using the word 'useful'. They are a statistic that gives a very loose idea of who creates chances, but no more than that. They also underplay the value of all the other players involved. They don't differentiate between the mundane and the sublime, a defence splitting 40 yard pass is as much an 'assist' as a simple 5 yard pass and I dare say a miscued pass which a defender fails to cut out is considered on a par with a brilliant pass.

Anyway, back to POTS !!!

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Nameless » 17 Feb 2020 15:46

Stranded Simply assists are not worthless but perhaps not as vital as made out but if a player gathers a lot of assists it shows that he is either taking up good attacking positions more often than not and/or playing the ball into dangerous areas.


I would expect the player with the most assists to play in pretty much the same position for every club, it's a function of what players in certain positions do.
Like the players with the most shots saved tend to be keepers.....

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by genome » 17 Feb 2020 15:53

I remember Snowball's phase of giving us stats for "half assists"

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by morganb » 17 Feb 2020 15:59

A quick poll in our house came back with the following (in no particular order):

Pele
Meite
Swift

Followed by Morrison and Moore

Has a loan player ever won POTS in the past?

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Re: Player of the season so far...

by Hendo » 17 Feb 2020 16:01

morganb A quick poll in our house came back with the following (in no particular order):

Pele
Meite
Swift

Followed by Morrison and Moore

Has a loan player ever won POTS in the past?


Did Bertrand win it when he was on loan with us?

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