Free transfers watch

User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13063
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: 16 years contributing to complete belmontry on the net.

Re: Free transfers watch

by From Despair To Where? » 11 Jun 2021 05:03

Hmm, I'd draw a very definite line between a free transfer and a Bosman type transfer. A lot of those players rejected terms with their club and chose to run down their contracts knowing there was a better offer elsewhere.

Funny you mention the 2005/06 team as when you consider Ivar, Sidwell, Harper, Lita, Kitson, Murty and Convey, you're looking at one of the most expensively assembled squads in the club's history at that time, (along with the 2001 squad that lost the playoff to Walsall), even if our spend was peanuts relative to our rivals


Also, its ridiculous to include players we quite literally paid a transfer fee for in a list of free transfers. It was widely reported that Gunnarsson cost in excess of £100,000, which, at the time, was hardly "nominal" for us.

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 13793
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Free transfers watch

by Stranded » 11 Jun 2021 07:45

From Despair To Where? Hmm, I'd draw a very definite line between a free transfer and a Bosman type transfer. A lot of those players rejected terms with their club and chose to run down their contracts knowing there was a better offer elsewhere.



Free transfer to me are players who remain under contract but it makes sense for the club to get them off the wage bill quickly, so they make it clear that Player X is available for nothing but that the new club need to take on his current wages etc.

Players hitting the end of their contract are no longer free transfers for me, they are free agents as we aren't dealing with a club at all.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 20826
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Free transfers watch

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jun 2021 08:38

Stranded
From Despair To Where? Hmm, I'd draw a very definite line between a free transfer and a Bosman type transfer. A lot of those players rejected terms with their club and chose to run down their contracts knowing there was a better offer elsewhere.



Free transfer to me are players who remain under contract but it makes sense for the club to get them off the wage bill quickly, so they make it clear that Player X is available for nothing but that the new club need to take on his current wages etc.

Players hitting the end of their contract are no longer free transfers for me, they are free agents as we aren't dealing with a club at all.

Yep, this.

Snowball
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 19027
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 18:35

Re: Free transfers watch

by Snowball » 11 Jun 2021 09:05

From Despair To Where? Hmm, I'd draw a very definite line between a free transfer and a Bosman type transfer. A lot of those players rejected terms with their club and chose to run down their contracts knowing there was a better offer elsewhere.

Funny you mention the 2005/06 team as when you consider Ivar, Sidwell, Harper, Lita, Kitson, Murty and Convey, you're looking at one of the most expensively assembled squads in the club's history at that time, (along with the 2001 squad that lost the playoff to Walsall), even if our spend was peanuts relative to our rivals


Also, its ridiculous to include players we quite literally paid a transfer fee for in a list of free transfers. It was widely reported that Gunnarsson cost in excess of £100,000, which, at the time, was hardly "nominal" for us.



You should read more carefully

I said Gunnar’s FREE was from Forest to Watford

(where he had an excellent season)

(Which led to his transfer to RDG)


The point is, players being let go on a free, or contract-not-renewef, or sold for a pittance, doesn’t mean they aren’t good or soon to be good

How much did we get for these players?

Antonio?
Fosu?
Stacey?
Dickie?
Cooper?

How much are they worth now? Two are at Premier League clubs

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 20826
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Free transfers watch

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jun 2021 09:17

Snowball
From Despair To Where? Hmm, I'd draw a very definite line between a free transfer and a Bosman type transfer. A lot of those players rejected terms with their club and chose to run down their contracts knowing there was a better offer elsewhere.

Funny you mention the 2005/06 team as when you consider Ivar, Sidwell, Harper, Lita, Kitson, Murty and Convey, you're looking at one of the most expensively assembled squads in the club's history at that time, (along with the 2001 squad that lost the playoff to Walsall), even if our spend was peanuts relative to our rivals


Also, its ridiculous to include players we quite literally paid a transfer fee for in a list of free transfers. It was widely reported that Gunnarsson cost in excess of £100,000, which, at the time, was hardly "nominal" for us.



You should read more carefully

I said Gunnar’s FREE was from Forest to Watford

(where he had an excellent season)

(Which led to his transfer to RDG)


The point is, players being let go on a free, or contract-not-renewef, or sold for a pittance, doesn’t mean they aren’t good or soon to be good

How much did we get for these players?

Antonio?
Fosu?
Stacey?
Dickie?
Cooper?

How much are they worth now? Two are at Premier League clubs

You need to read more carefully. You arguing against a point no one made.

No one said players on a free / bosman / ooc were never good.


User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13063
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: 16 years contributing to complete belmontry on the net.

Re: Free transfers watch

by From Despair To Where? » 11 Jun 2021 10:53

Snowball
From Despair To Where? Hmm, I'd draw a very definite line between a free transfer and a Bosman type transfer. A lot of those players rejected terms with their club and chose to run down their contracts knowing there was a better offer elsewhere.

Funny you mention the 2005/06 team as when you consider Ivar, Sidwell, Harper, Lita, Kitson, Murty and Convey, you're looking at one of the most expensively assembled squads in the club's history at that time, (along with the 2001 squad that lost the playoff to Walsall), even if our spend was peanuts relative to our rivals


Also, its ridiculous to include players we quite literally paid a transfer fee for in a list of free transfers. It was widely reported that Gunnarsson cost in excess of £100,000, which, at the time, was hardly "nominal" for us.



You should read more carefully

I said Gunnar’s FREE was from Forest to Watford

(where he had an excellent season)

(Which led to his transfer to RDG)


The point is, players being let go on a free, or contract-not-renewef, or sold for a pittance, doesn’t mean they aren’t good or soon to be good

How much did we get for these players?

Antonio?
Fosu?
Stacey?
Dickie?
Cooper?

How much are they worth now? Two are at Premier League clubs



I find it odd that you try to illustrate your argument with 4 academy products and one player signed from non league for a fee all of whom were sold for decent fees and/or with sell on clauses. None were free agent/transfer signing, none were sold on frees. I would never regard an academy player as a free signing, not when we spend millions each year on the academy and years developing players, many of whom never make it at the club.

As Ian said, you seem to be up trying to argue a point nobody was making or disputing.

(Cue semantics and further shifting of goalposts :roll: )

All we can really do really do assess the merits of the players available this window and whether there is any value to be had. We did OK last season with Laurent but I suspect that was a signing agreed some time before he joined us.

Unfortunately, we are not in a strong negotiating position this summer so I suspect any signings we do make will either be on loan or out of left field,this Columbian player we're allegedly linked to being a case in point.

SCIAG
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5456
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: Free transfers watch

by SCIAG » 11 Jun 2021 12:18

Yea think Snowball has read too much into Nameless’s question (perhaps a joke) about Morgan’s varying use of “released” and “out of contract”.

I don’t think anyone thinks players out of contract are automatically rubbish, though it’s fair to say that most would be unsuitable for our needs.

User avatar
morganb
Member
Posts: 852
Joined: 31 Jul 2017 12:30

Re: Free transfers watch

by morganb » 11 Jun 2021 12:29

SCIAG Yea think Snowball has read too much into Nameless’s question (perhaps a joke) about Morgan’s varying use of “released” and “out of contract”.

I don’t think anyone thinks players out of contract are automatically rubbish, though it’s fair to say that most would be unsuitable for our needs.


To be honest I'm just cutting and pasting from various places on Twitter so whatever is posted there simply gets dumped on here! Perhaps sometimes I take the info from an official club site (for example the Brentford details), sometimes from a news outlet or even just a regular poster.

Though once it was commented on I did wonder if there was anything to the released/out of contract somehow indicating the quality of the player it is applied to.

Snowball
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 19027
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 18:35

Re: Free transfers watch

by Snowball » 11 Jun 2021 13:55

From Despair To Where?








I find it odd that you try to illustrate your argument with 4 academy products and one player signed from non league for a fee all of whom were sold for decent fees and/or with sell on clauses. None were free agent/transfer signing, none were sold on frees. I would never regard an academy player as a free signing, not when we spend millions each year on the academy and years developing players, many of whom never make it at the club.



Unfortunately, we are not in a strong negotiating position this summer so I suspect any signings we do make will either be on loan or out of left field,this Columbian player we're allegedly linked to being a case in point.


This is what I said:

Where does it say I said they went for free?

How much did we get for these players?

Antonio?
Fosu?
Stacey?
Dickie?
Cooper?

How much are they worth now? Two are at Premier League clubs

Fosu, BTW, refused a contract and did go for free. Maybe we got comp


My point was "Out of contract", "Bosman", "Can leave for free", "Let go for comp-only" "Mutually agreed cancelled contract" or any similar phrase, doesn't have to mean the player might be rubbish.


User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11200
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: Free transfers watch

by Sutekh » 11 Jun 2021 14:00

morganb
SCIAG Yea think Snowball has read too much into Nameless’s question (perhaps a joke) about Morgan’s varying use of “released” and “out of contract”.

I don’t think anyone thinks players out of contract are automatically rubbish, though it’s fair to say that most would be unsuitable for our needs.


To be honest I'm just cutting and pasting from various places on Twitter so whatever is posted there simply gets dumped on here! Perhaps sometimes I take the info from an official club site (for example the Brentford details), sometimes from a news outlet or even just a regular poster.

Though once it was commented on I did wonder if there was anything to the released/out of contract somehow indicating the quality of the player it is applied to.


Released would usually mean a player not considered:

A) better that what a club already has
B) affordable as club looks to cut costs
C) good enough for the level at which the club is playing

Whereas out of contract implies something more along the lines of good enough but club and player can’t reach agreement for whatever reason.

None of the above mean that the player concerned moving to another club is not going to be a success.

SCIAG
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5456
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: Free transfers watch

by SCIAG » 11 Jun 2021 16:24

morganb
SCIAG Yea think Snowball has read too much into Nameless’s question (perhaps a joke) about Morgan’s varying use of “released” and “out of contract”.

I don’t think anyone thinks players out of contract are automatically rubbish, though it’s fair to say that most would be unsuitable for our needs.


To be honest I'm just cutting and pasting from various places on Twitter so whatever is posted there simply gets dumped on here! Perhaps sometimes I take the info from an official club site (for example the Brentford details), sometimes from a news outlet or even just a regular poster.

Though once it was commented on I did wonder if there was anything to the released/out of contract somehow indicating the quality of the player it is applied to.

Yeah it was a weird thing to pick up on, might have worked better in a spoken conversation where tone would be a bit clearer.

User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13063
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: 16 years contributing to complete belmontry on the net.

Re: Free transfers watch

by From Despair To Where? » 12 Jun 2021 08:34

Snowball
From Despair To Where?








I find it odd that you try to illustrate your argument with 4 academy products and one player signed from non league for a fee all of whom were sold for decent fees and/or with sell on clauses. None were free agent/transfer signing, none were sold on frees. I would never regard an academy player as a free signing, not when we spend millions each year on the academy and years developing players, many of whom never make it at the club.



Unfortunately, we are not in a strong negotiating position this summer so I suspect any signings we do make will either be on loan or out of left field,this Columbian player we're allegedly linked to being a case in point.


This is what I said:

Where does it say I said they went for free?

How much did we get for these players?

Antonio?
Fosu?
Stacey?
Dickie?
Cooper?

How much are they worth now? Two are at Premier League clubs

Fosu, BTW, refused a contract and did go for free. Maybe we got comp


My point was "Out of contract", "Bosman", "Can leave for free", "Let go for comp-only" "Mutually agreed cancelled contract" or any similar phrase, doesn't have to mean the player might be rubbish.



Well, it is a thread about free transfers. Antonio wasn't bought or sold on a free, Stacey was academy and we got close to £2m for him in sell ons, Wiki isn't always the most reliable source but it suggests we got a fee for Fosu which I accept may be a development fee, and Dickie and Cooper were both academy graduates and we got a fee for both. I think we also had a sell on with Dickie. May even have got one for Cooper but, obviously, he's still at Millwall.

You are trying to argue a point that no-one had actually made. You do this quite a lot; misunderstand a point and then hare of at a tangent into a spiralling arguement rather than say "Fair cop, I misunderstood the point being made".

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7277
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Free transfers watch

by Nameless » 12 Jun 2021 13:47

Sutekh
morganb
SCIAG Yea think Snowball has read too much into Nameless’s question (perhaps a joke) about Morgan’s varying use of “released” and “out of contract”.

I don’t think anyone thinks players out of contract are automatically rubbish, though it’s fair to say that most would be unsuitable for our needs.


To be honest I'm just cutting and pasting from various places on Twitter so whatever is posted there simply gets dumped on here! Perhaps sometimes I take the info from an official club site (for example the Brentford details), sometimes from a news outlet or even just a regular poster.

Though once it was commented on I did wonder if there was anything to the released/out of contract somehow indicating the quality of the player it is applied to.


Released would usually mean a player not considered:

A) better that what a club already has
B) affordable as club looks to cut costs
C) good enough for the level at which the club is playing

Whereas out of contract implies something more along the lines of good enough but club and player can’t reach agreement for whatever reason.

None of the above mean that the player concerned moving to another club is not going to be a success.


not sure there really is such a thing as 'releasing' a player these days is there ? I think they call it mutual termination of contract because a contract is just that so unless a player agrees to leave (with a paying up of his contract) a club can't just wave him off....


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 137 guests

It is currently 18 Jun 2021 02:39