Striker for 4-5-1/4-3-3

[Sarah Star]

Forget Shane Long or Simon Church or Noel Hunt or Mooney etc individually for a moment and which you'd choose over whom and the stats that say who's scored the most goals etc. What sort of striker works best in a 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation? What sort of qualities would they need and would that be different to a 4-4-2 formation?

I admit to not knowing how these things work.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Depends a bit on how the team plays

Ideally they would have a bit of pace and ability to go past people so they could instigate attacks on their own when they are isolated upfront. You would also hope they were able to challenge physically against big hairy arsed centre backs and hold the ball up to bring the other attacking players into the game

Forster was excellent upfront on his own because he had electric pace and could attack teams on his own

Players like the lad at Burnley last season (cant remember his name), Kevin Davies, Darius Henderson, Santa Cruz (to a lesser extent because he often had a partner) or Kenwyne Jones have been very successful because of their size, strength and ability to hold the ball up

The ulitmate is someone like Drogba who has a bit of both of those styles. I suppose Jason Scotland had a bit of both in the Championship last season

I dont really see any of our forards really fitting the bill at the moment

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Hunt definitely not. He works best with a partner.

And because of that, we may well not opt for 451 as often as is rumoured.

[Snowball]

Good question.

I had got it into my head that the 1 in a 4-5-1 had to be a big, burly guy who played with his back to goal
(and I guess it depends on how the manage wants to play things)

But my kid argued that there are other ways to be the 1.

IF we are talking a player like Jason Scotland, good at receiving and holding up
then IMO the only player who MIGHT (and I haven't seen him play) is Mooney

I can't see Shane doing it (not a brilliant first touch)

I can't see Noel doing it (brave as hell but not robust enough)

I think Church would be hospitalised within a month.

No idea about Mooney, TBF (PS I was amazed to find out he's more than two years older than Shane)



The only time I've seen a Shane type working well in 4-5-1 was for Newport County who played a small, very fast striker
who ran back and forward across their defence and pulled them all over the place.

We seemed more like 4-3-3 on Monday night and it was noticeable how Shane was trying to get running the runs but seemed not quite to have the timing right.

But the second half set-up was ropey at best

[Royalee]

Noel Hunt for me - he's got the best touch, reasonably strong, extremely good in the air for his size (even if we won't be playing hoofball this season) and is also good with his back to goal. I can see him being very important this season as he gives us options the likes of Long and Church don't and can see him supported by an attacking unit from Church, Robson Kanu, Henry, Matejovsky (acting as playmaker) and Taarabt and Smith if we manage to get hold of them. That'd be an exciting prospect as far as I see it anyway.

[Snowball]

We did seem to like little through balls on Monday night.

Did we try the same thing v Kettering?

Again, I don't see Shane on the end of that kind of ball, whereas the front few seemed to have quite a good understanding in the first half on Monday

[Snowball]

Noel Hunt for me - he's got the best touch, reasonably strong, extremely good in the air for his size (even if we won't be playing hoofball this season) and is also good with his back to goal. I can see him being very important this season as he gives us options the likes of Long and Church don't and can see him supported by an attacking unit from Church, Robson Kanu, Henry, Matejovsky (acting as playmaker) and Taarabt and Smith if we manage to get hold of them. That'd be an exciting prospect as far as I see it anyway.

I can't say I remember much of Noel (who I really like) playing with his back to goal.

From what I recall (and I stand to be corrected) it was mostly flicks either from Doyle or to Doyle

[rg6royal]

with a 5-4-1 formation you need someone to hold up the ball. So preferably someone tall, strong and a bit of pace.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Mooney looks far too lightweight to play upfront on his own

Hunt would probably be the best bet out of the current lot, but I agree he looks like he plays best with a partner up there with him. Not really seen him play up there on his own though, so that might be the wrong impression

He wasnt up to last more than an hour playing alongside Doyle, so not confident he would last the distance on his own

[floyd__streete]

We did seem to like little through balls on Monday night.

Did we try the same thing v Kettering?

It was all one-twos, through-balls and when that totally failed to work sideways passing which Tommy Burns would have been proud of. I can't help but think that with the players we have, attempting to impose this kind of style is a bit like trying to teach the Pope how to skateboard.

[Southbank Old Boy]

with a 5-4-1 formation you need someone to hold up the ball. So preferably someone tall, strong and a bit of pace.

Presuming you mean 4-5-1, but you dont have to play it that way

Forster was excellent up there on his own, although it was more 4-4-1-1, and Henry played it in a similar for spells at Arsenal

Louis Saha, Anelka, Torres, Bellamy, Agbonlahor or even Nathan Tyson are all forwards who have done pretty well playing upfront on their own without being strong at holding the ball up. Their strength is running past defenders with their pace and it can be just as effective

It really does depend on how you want to play it and the players available to support the loan striker

[SteveRoyal]

Simon Church is probably our best runner as a striker.
Buck said in an interview that his runs are amazing and in a 4-3-3 formation, with Henry and Kebe/Robson-Kanu/etc. all up there supporting the striker, there's really 3 strikers, but only one who stays up there.

If we played Church/Long we'd have to have a decent playmaker/passer in midfield able to thread the passes through defence and out wide to allow the striker to charge forward and have a shot.

If we played N Hunt/Mooney/etc., they're really all-round strikers, decent at everything but not stand-out in one thing alone, and that would mean that there are multiple ways to get a shot on goal.

In pre-season so far it looks like Buck likes playing the thready-runny type thing, with Church or Long bombing up and trying to grab the ball. In this new, "world class" system, I think that works best. Although I can't see anything wrong with playing N Hunt up there with Henry and Kanu/Kebe/etc. receiving the flick-ons and having a crack.

[weybridgewanderer]

4-5-1 needs someone that can hold the ball up and work defenders.

doesn't have to be big and burly

daniel cousin or kenny miller can both play the lone striker role

4 3 3 needs a player that can beat the offside trap, watch their line and make runs at the right time

[Plymouth_Royal]

We did seem to like little through balls on Monday night.

Did we try the same thing v Kettering?

It was all one-twos, through-balls and when that totally failed to work sideways passing which Tommy Burns would have been proud of. I can't help but think that with the players we have, attempting to impose this kind of style is a bit like trying to teach the Pope how to skateboard.

But with a lot of practice he could become a competent skateboarder. These are professional footballers learning a different style of a game they're professionally qualified for, so learning a new style still TAKES TIME, but not as much as the pope would need. rodgers even said in his post match interview that his team will need to learn how to become better at penetrating the defence in the final third and that he wasn't expecting to see this happen straight away under a style of football that they don't usually play. I've been encouraged that the players are knocking the ball around on the deck and keeping possession, as i strongly believe the finishing touches will come into place over the next few weeks.

[winchester_royal]

Obviously it will take time. Look at how Watford struggled for the first month or so under Rodgers, before eventually flourishing.

[Dirk Gently]

BR's preferred version of 4-5-1 is actually a 4-2-3-1, so in midfield there are two holding, central midfielder, two wingers and one attacking midfielder/striker.

I think this person could be one and the same in terms of skills required, so the only effective differences between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 would be how deep this player played. Attacking midfielder or striker who drops deep?

[winchester_royal]

BR's preferred version of 4-5-1 is actually a 4-2-3-1, so in midfield there are two holding, central midfielder, two wingers and one attacking midfielder/striker.

I think this person could be one and the same in terms of skills required, so the only effective differences between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 would be how deep this player played. Attacking midfielder or striker who drops deep?

I'd have thought that position in the hole would suit Marek down to the bone.

[Snowball]

We did seem to like little through balls on Monday night.

Did we try the same thing v Kettering?

It was all one-twos, through-balls and when that totally failed to work sideways passing which Tommy Burns would have been proud of. I can't help but think that with the players we have, attempting to impose this kind of style is a bit like trying to teach the Pope how to skateboard.

But with a lot of practice he could become a competent skateboarder. These are professional footballers learning a different style of a game they're professionally qualified for, so learning a new style still TAKES TIME, but not as much as the pope would need. rodgers even said in his post match interview that his team will need to learn how to become better at penetrating the defence in the final third and that he wasn't expecting to see this happen straight away under a style of football that they don't usually play. I've been encouraged that the players are knocking the ball around on the deck and keeping possession, as i strongly believe the finishing touches will come into place over the next few weeks.

Good post. Despite the usual moaners, last year we didn't play enough of the right kind of football to show ourselves to our best advantage.

I was pleasantly surprised on Monday night, and it was so nice to see people enjoying being on the ball. Yes, Rodgers will make them better
at it, and let's be fair, man for man, we have a lot more quality than Watford, so the future is bright.

[Southbank Old Boy]

BR's preferred version of 4-5-1 is actually a 4-2-3-1, so in midfield there are two holding, central midfielder, two wingers and one attacking midfielder/striker.

I think this person could be one and the same in terms of skills required, so the only effective differences between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 would be how deep this player played. Attacking midfielder or striker who drops deep?

Only effective difference?

What about how advanced the wingers play, how much they are expected to defend, how they are expected to support the striker, and how much licence to attack the 2 sitting midfielders have?

Formations arent the be all and end all though. The style of play is a lot more important, as is the ability and attitude of the players themselves

[Dirk Gently]

BR's preferred version of 4-5-1 is actually a 4-2-3-1, so in midfield there are two holding, central midfielder, two wingers and one attacking midfielder/striker.

I think this person could be one and the same in terms of skills required, so the only effective differences between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 would be how deep this player played. Attacking midfielder or striker who drops deep?

Only effective difference?

What about how advanced the wingers play, how much they are expected to defend, how they are expected to support the striker, and how much licence to attack the 2 sitting midfielders have?

Formations arent the be all and end all though. The style of play is a lot more important, as is the ability and attitude of the players themselves

Fair enough - reading it back i did over-simplify. But I am certain that when analysing the formation BR will use people need to be thinking of 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1, rather than just 4-5-1.