Under-12s Price band

[STAR Voice]

At the meeting we had with the Senior Management board this morning we asked the question why this had been discontinued. Below are the answers we were given :

- The aim is to simplify the pricing structure by having fewer break-points, which is in-line with what the majority of other clubs
- The practical difficulties of enforcing this. How easy is it in practice to tell the difference between a 12 year old and a 13 year old - especially when at that age there's no form of ID with age proof that can easily be carried. Sadly, this facility has been significantly abused in the past - another case of people who cheat spoiling it for those who don't.
- Also to make it consistent with age bands in the Young Royals.

Put another way, as far as the club can see there is no price difference for parents between a 12 year OK and a 13 year old, so why should there be a ticket price differential?

The new, simplified pricing structure has just 2 bands below 21 :
Kid (i.e. anyone under 16 - easier to police)
17-21 (replaces students, which is again very hard to police) - and recognises that people over 16 may be working and may need to start to pay for their own ST

Of course those who it affects will be screaming about it, but that's the logic as explained to me.
The idea is that there

[shaka's shorts]

makes sense to me - why have an 12 year old price band - it is not as though a 12 year old takes up more space than a 11 year old and they don't earn any money.

It particularly makes sense as one of my son's is now 12 and this decision has saved me season ticket money!

[North Somerset Royal]

I tend to agree with the club on this. I have witnessed an adult going through the turnstile with a young kid in his arms. The kid sat in a seat but the adult sat on a ledge at the end of the top row. I dont know what type of ticket he had but I bet it was not adult.

Whilst we need to encourage youngsters to become fans and I am sympathetic as regards the cost to parents kids under 12 are easily bored and can be a real nuisance to other people. Surely the answer is to have a dedicated family area where a family ticket can be purchased and which could be monitored by stewards to prevent abuse.

[3 veesinarow]

The youngest price band is now 16 AND UNDER, not UNDER 16...makes a big difference to our own particular 16yo!

[coyrls]

From a totally selfish perspective, my son was 12 this month, so Phew! I would have had to pay the extra this season anyway.

[Platypuss]

Fair enough - it's the club's decision and they've explained it. It's also my decision that they can forget about my 3 ST's this season.

As the other thread showed, a lot of other clubs in this division do see the merit in having a U12 band.

[RoyalBlue]

The youngest price band is now 16 AND UNDER, not UNDER 16...makes a big difference to our own particular 16yo!

Wasn't it always 16 and under at the start of the season?

Put another way, as far as the club can see there is no price difference for parents between a 12 year OK and a 13 year old

Maybe I'm being thick but I can't understand the point the club/you are making there.

If the argument is that there is no difference between a 12 and a 13 year old, then why have price breaks anywhere at all? The fact is that in many walks of life there are price breaks for younger children and those that offer them clearly think there is a commercial benefit to be derived from having such breaks.

I would suggest that younger families tend to have higher costs of living than those with older kids (childcare for starters and perhaps the loss/reduction in earnings as one parent works part time whilst the kids are younger).

I think the club may well lose out by this pricing decision (Platypuss being just one example).

And this argument comes from someone whose kids are both other the age of 12 and therefore wouldn't benefit from an Under 12s price bracket.

[willz_royal]

i understand that they have to do different pricings for different ages. But logically it doesnt make sense. Everyone in the stadium, be they 12 or 45, takes up 1 seat. So why do they pay different prices?

always wondered this.

and i love the 16 and under bracket, it keeps football, for just one more year, affordable.

[RoyalBlue]

i understand that they have to do different pricings for different ages. But logically it doesnt make sense. Everyone in the stadium, be they 12 or 45, takes up 1 seat. So why do they pay different prices?

Because when it comes down to it they need to attract kids to the games, both to help fill up the stadium and also because they are the future of the club. Drive them away somewhere else and they won't come back when they are high earning/free spending adults.

In some respects football supporters are like bank customers. Once they have chosen a club/bank very few ever change their allegiances. That's why banks go out of their way to try to hook young customers with freebies etc.

The simple fact is that if you charge too much youngsters to attend matches, parents won't be able to afford to pay for them to go.

RFC are taking a gamble with their pricing strategy for youngsters and, if they've got it wrong, it will cost them extremely dearly in the future.

Dependent on how the recession deepens and also how well the team are doing on the pitch, I would expect to see a re-think part way through the season and lots of incentives targeted at attracting youngsters/families to games on a match by match (or half season ticket) basis. Yet another reason for families to keep hold of their money and not splash out on a season ticket in advance.

[West Stand Man]

i understand that they have to do different pricings for different ages. But logically it doesnt make sense. Everyone in the stadium, be they 12 or 45, takes up 1 seat. So why do they pay different prices?

always wondered this.

and i love the 16 and under bracket, it keeps football, for just one more year, affordable.

Logically it makes huge sense. It is called marketing. By allowing kids in for a reduced price you get them hooked so that they stay on and pay the full price later on in life. Seems totally logical to me.

[working class hero]

From my perspective the Club is shooting itself in the head here. My kids are now all over 12 so it doesn't affect me.
When I first started to bring the family I relied on the various kids bands to afford admission. As a result the Club has hooked 3 kids. One is now on the under 21 rate and wants an ST even though she is at Uni so misses loads of games.

I reckon we will see a load of gaps next season [which will fill with glory hunters if we do well]. I also suspect we will not do brilliantly and then the crowds will dip. If the recession bites we will suffer further.

From my perspective I could easily afford to buy a ticket for myself [and most people only buy a ticket for themselves]. I can just about afford to buy STs for my wife and kids if I make cutbacks elsewhere. But as with Platypuss I may well choose not to renew.

Although the Club decide the prices etc. I think we need them to have the counter arguments made to them quite forcefully:

1. Students are very hard up - and mature ones are even more strapped as they may have other responsibilities. Use of a FT NUS card is a reliable form of proof. Most establishments will also give a stamped letter of proof on headed paper.
2. Many families will struggle if they have several kids. So perhaps a buy one and get second half price would help them? Other Clubs are investing much more in young supporters - even without the parachute payments!
3. Any kid in full time education would need a reduction. However many kids who leave school at 16 are earning a substantial wedge within a couple of years. So why the odd use of age as an arbitrary indicator. Far better to spend a little effort and target those who need help.
4. The unemployed might benefit from a helping hand.
5. The club need to understand that it would be reprehensible in the extreme if they bounce prices up and squeeze folk out if we are promoted.

Ah well, rant over.....

[TFF]

At the meeting we had with the Senior Management board this morning we asked the question why this had been discontinued. Below are the answers we were given :

- The aim is to simplify the pricing structure by having fewer break-points, which is in-line with what the majority of other clubs
- The practical difficulties of enforcing this. How easy is it in practice to tell the difference between a 12 year old and a 13 year old - especially when at that age there's no form of ID with age proof that can easily be carried. Sadly, this facility has been significantly abused in the past - another case of people who cheat spoiling it for those who don't.

I can see there might be "practical difficulties" with match day tickets but it's really not much of a reason for not offering an under 12 ST. I would be only too happy to produce a birth certificate/passport when buying my two junior (under 12) season tickets. If I was unable/unwilling to produce such documentation I would pay the standard junior rate. It's not really rocket science. I'm sure the club could even make a note of having a verified DOB and then not need it for subsequent renewals.

I don't really buy the easy to police argument. I can see much wider abuse of the next age category - or is it easy to tell the difference between a 21 and 22 year old?

Just three seasons ago the club were bending over backwards to get kids in. The sevens scheme - free shirt and matchday tickets, kids for a quid, schools promotions. Then we got into the premier league and it pretty much stopped. Tickets for the stiffs for the first season and then they were shipped off to Aldershot.

The Young Royals is a great scheme and my lads have enjoyed many of the events but it's no substitute for the match day experience. The club are taking a huge risk imho, having dropped a league and seats not being at such a premium, in failing to recognise the under 12 category and I'll be a little disappointed if STAR don't make further representations to the club.

Having said all that I will of course be renewing tickets for the whole family - I value the father/son time even if it means the wife tagging along too.

[The 17 Bus]

And the proof of age was done exactly like that, so most details are held by the club, I think the policing thing is more to do with abuse of actual ST on the day, adults using concessions, and one possible answer to that, have separate turnstiles cor concessions, much easier to check then.

From the renewal details 05/06

Concessions
Under 12’s, under 16’s, 65+ and under 21’s – Must register a copy of your birth certificate or passport or driving licence at
the Ticket Office. However, you will only have to do this once and we will keep a record. Under 16’s and Under 12’s must be
Young Royals, however, this is now free, (see page 10 for more details).

[Platypuss]

At the meeting we had with the Senior Management board this morning we asked the question why this had been discontinued. Below are the answers we were given :

- The aim is to simplify the pricing structure by having fewer break-points, which is in-line with what the majority of other clubs

As posted in another thread, but perhaps worth copying to this one:

A quick comparison with teams in a similar bracket to Reading. By that i mean relegated from the prem recently:

Sheff Utd £359 for the kop, just over £400 for other areas. Under 12s £69

Charlton. Adult prices start at £290 behind the goal, rising to £450 for the best seats. Under 12s £99.

Derby County. Adult Prices start at £270 with most tickets at £355. Under 12s start at £55

Brum £393-£460. £99 for under 12s

Norwich City £366-£398. £85 for Under 12s

You can get an family stand ticket for under 11s for just £10 at Ipswich

Just a snapshot, but it would be interesting to see if the club are being wholly honest with regard to most clubs now having fewer price points (at least in the championship).

[The 17 Bus]

Many clubs will however have areas where they expect the under 12's to sit, at Bris C this is high in a corner. shite looking area to be.

Was going to try to do a full comparison of all 24 clubs but could not be arsed.

[mini _dariusz]

Fair enough - it's the club's decision and they've explained it. It's also my decision that they can forget about my 3 ST's this season.

As the other thread showed, a lot of other clubs in this division do see the merit in having a U12 band.

Spoken like a spoilt little child.

[STAR Liaison]

[I can see there might be "practical difficulties" with match day tickets but it's really not much of a reason for not offering an under 12 ST. I would be only too happy to produce a birth certificate/passport when buying my two junior (under 12) season tickets. If I was unable/unwilling to produce such documentation I would pay the standard junior rate. It's not really rocket science. I'm sure the club could even make a note of having a verified DOB and then not need it for subsequent renewals.

It is on the day policing that is the problem. If you have a concession ticket you should have proof of the concession with you (ts&cs say so and when I raised this with the club after a member asked me to they agreed that there is not enough publicity of this) so they have proof of age for the older concessions (pensioners and those who want to prove they are old enough to buy alcohol) and for the u16s through the Young Royals (not compulsory but useful for most u16s) but nothing other than the birth cert etc for u12.

One example quoted was that for just one game there were 25 abuses of the u12 concession (a bearded u12 for one!) and that it has appeared to be a combination of abuse and easy proof of qualification that have determined this change.

TBH it is this sort of detail that those of us who just want to come and watch football give no thought to. There may be other ways around it but the club does have to make it as straight forward as possible as we all know how easy it is to get enough stewards to cope with anything out of the ordinary.

[Platypuss]

One example quoted was that for just one game there were 25 abuses of the u12 concession (a bearded u12 for one!) and that it has appeared to be a combination of abuse and easy proof of qualification that have determined this change.

So, out of those 25, how many of those were under 16? The bearded one would have been an abuser regardless, so hardly factors as a legitimate example.

[The 17 Bus]

I refer back to my point about separate turnstiles, not hard to do and easy to monitor, they seem to be able to search enough people entering the ground, cant be hard to monitor those using the concession turnstiles.

Also most other clubs seem to allow the U12 ST but only if bought with an adult ST, did RFC have the same rule? Many do the same for U16 as well.

[RoyalBlue]

[I can see there might be "practical difficulties" with match day tickets but it's really not much of a reason for not offering an under 12 ST. I would be only too happy to produce a birth certificate/passport when buying my two junior (under 12) season tickets. If I was unable/unwilling to produce such documentation I would pay the standard junior rate. It's not really rocket science. I'm sure the club could even make a note of having a verified DOB and then not need it for subsequent renewals.

It is on the day policing that is the problem. If you have a concession ticket you should have proof of the concession with you (ts&cs say so and when I raised this with the club after a member asked me to they agreed that there is not enough publicity of this) so they have proof of age for the older concessions (pensioners and those who want to prove they are old enough to buy alcohol) and for the u16s through the Young Royals (not compulsory but useful for most u16s) but nothing other than the birth cert etc for u12.

As they say, where there is a will there is a way. Clearly the club have absolutely no will whatsoever to provide reduced price tickets for Under 12s. Tackling the abuse really isn't rocket science! Two passport photos and a fiver charge for a photo ID card for Under 12s. ID card to be carried whenever they are using their U12s smart card. Come to think of it, in the digital age it shouldn't be difficult to print the picture on the card itself.

As for checking, provide a separate turnstile for U12s (it's not difficult, they even managed to provide that for Juniors at Elm ParK!) and every turnstile already has stewards outside it anyway so they can check ID cards on the way in.

Alternatively, rely on the coloured lights system that we were told operated for concessions and check the ID card if anyone looks over age.