England Vs. Spain

[Snowflake Royal]

No need to be facetious.
I was addressing my question to Brobot who delights in mathematical probability etc.

No intention to be facetious, just answering the question you raised
The second bit about clicking on stuff is because I could have included the links, but I know there’s some that don’t like that idea … you may or may not be one of those

Fine, I was assuming that the heat has got to you over there.

Of late you do appear to have joined the rather more argumentative section of our poster base although you have a lot of ground to make up on the top 3 of OMA, Ian and Sangers.

Harsh on Sangers. Will put it down to cognitive decline.

[BRO_BOT]

Well this one should make the anti-statters foam at the mouth.

In 622 minutes played, Foden achieved 10 passes into the penalty area, and made 1 run into the penalty area. (I find that hard to believe but there you go, that's what the official Euros site says.)

In 144 minutes played, Palmer achieved 5 passes into the penalty area, and made 4 runs into the penalty area.

(PS I think my previously quoted 105 mins for Palmer was up to the semi final.)

it's not anti-statting. It's just that you're comparing slightly different things.

I'd expect a man with fresh legs to have more impact against a tiring opponent, it's one of the reasons they make subs

[WestYorksRoyal]

I don't see how you can play Foden and Palmer in the same team; they are basically the same player. Technically gifted left footed Pep disciples, but what you want is variety in attack. It will always be either/or, and you can add Bellingham into the mix who never fitted in alongside Foden.

So regardless of stats, I can totally see why Palmer didn't start. A great talent, but hasn't achieved what Bellingham and Foden have yet. His target is to prove he deserves the start by 2026, but when that happens the clamour will be for Foden or Bellingham

[Franchise FC]

No need to be facetious.
I was addressing my question to Brobot who delights in mathematical probability etc.

No intention to be facetious, just answering the question you raised
The second bit about clicking on stuff is because I could have included the links, but I know there’s some that don’t like that idea … you may or may not be one of those

Fine, I was assuming that the heat has got to you over there.

Of late you do appear to have joined the rather more argumentative section of our poster base although you have a lot of ground to make up on the top 3 of OMA, Ian and Sangers.

I didn’t think I was being argumentative at all
I was simply answering a question that you’d put out there

[Royal Rother]

Well this one should make the anti-statters foam at the mouth.

In 622 minutes played, Foden achieved 10 passes into the penalty area, and made 1 run into the penalty area. (I find that hard to believe but there you go, that's what the official Euros site says.)

In 144 minutes played, Palmer achieved 5 passes into the penalty area, and made 4 runs into the penalty area.

(PS I think my previously quoted 105 mins for Palmer was up to the semi final.)

it's not anti-statting. It's just that you're comparing slightly different things.

I'd expect a man with fresh legs to have more impact against a tiring opponent, it's one of the reasons they make subs

Of course, but at the absolute minimum it's INTERESTING, no? And a reason to have a little hmmm and a think.

Not to our Ian of course who always knows best and will never ever move from any position he has ever taken, and will thus remain single for ever more as a result, but to most normal folk.

[Snowflake Royal]

Well this one should make the anti-statters foam at the mouth.

In 622 minutes played, Foden achieved 10 passes into the penalty area, and made 1 run into the penalty area. (I find that hard to believe but there you go, that's what the official Euros site says.)

In 144 minutes played, Palmer achieved 5 passes into the penalty area, and made 4 runs into the penalty area.

(PS I think my previously quoted 105 mins for Palmer was up to the semi final.)

it's not anti-statting. It's just that you're comparing slightly different things.

I'd expect a man with fresh legs to have more impact against a tiring opponent, it's one of the reasons they make subs

Meaningful and well used stats are great.

Throwing out any old numbers like a monkey with a typewriter like it means something, isn’t.

[Snowflake Royal]

Well this one should make the anti-statters foam at the mouth.

In 622 minutes played, Foden achieved 10 passes into the penalty area, and made 1 run into the penalty area. (I find that hard to believe but there you go, that's what the official Euros site says.)

In 144 minutes played, Palmer achieved 5 passes into the penalty area, and made 4 runs into the penalty area.

(PS I think my previously quoted 105 mins for Palmer was up to the semi final.)

it's not anti-statting. It's just that you're comparing slightly different things.

I'd expect a man with fresh legs to have more impact against a tiring opponent, it's one of the reasons they make subs

Of course, but at the absolute minimum it's INTERESTING, no? And a reason to have a little hmmm and a think.

Not to our Ian of course who always knows best and will never ever move from any position he has ever taken, and will thus remain single for ever more as a result, but to most normal folk.

Have a look in a mirror mate, your tune about Southgate hasn't changed for 5 years despite two finals, a semi and a quarter.

[Royal Rother]

it's not anti-statting. It's just that you're comparing slightly different things.

I'd expect a man with fresh legs to have more impact against a tiring opponent, it's one of the reasons they make subs

Of course, but at the absolute minimum it's INTERESTING, no? And a reason to have a little hmmm and a think.

Not to our Ian of course who always knows best and will never ever move from any position he has ever taken, and will thus remain single for ever more as a result, but to most normal folk.

Have a look in a mirror mate, your tune about Southgate hasn't changed for 5 years despite two finals, a semi and a quarter.

My tune has indeed been entirely consistent.

Lovely bloke, great man manager, very good at building squad unity but consistently served up pretty dire football for the viewer and absolutely lacking what it takes to get (what I see as) the real potential within the players at his disposal, and win something..

I don't criticise those who are just happy to have reached further in tournaments than we have in most of the last 50+ years - they have every right to feel that way.

And I acknowledge the relative successes he has brought, but I see, and of course, 5+ years ago predicted, the massive missed opportunities his pragmatism has brought.

Anyway, that's it now, over and out on Southgate - looking forward to see what the new era brings.

[South Coast Royal]

No intention to be facetious, just answering the question you raised
The second bit about clicking on stuff is because I could have included the links, but I know there’s some that don’t like that idea … you may or may not be one of those

Fine, I was assuming that the heat has got to you over there.

Of late you do appear to have joined the rather more argumentative section of our poster base although you have a lot of ground to make up on the top 3 of OMA, Ian and Sangers.

I didn’t think I was being argumentative at all
I was simply answering a question that you’d put out there

In this case yes, but I have detected some pickiness from you in recent times, thus the upgrading of your contrariness.

[South Coast Royal]

No intention to be facetious, just answering the question you raised
The second bit about clicking on stuff is because I could have included the links, but I know there’s some that don’t like that idea … you may or may not be one of those

Fine, I was assuming that the heat has got to you over there.

Of late you do appear to have joined the rather more argumentative section of our poster base although you have a lot of ground to make up on the top 3 of OMA, Ian and Sangers.

Harsh on Sangers. Will put it down to cognitive decline.

That's a bit harsh on Sangers.
If you follow his postings, as I have to as he is always stalking me, you will find that he is a very argumentative soul going way back to his tory boy days.

Not perhaps in your league or that of OMA (another renowned stalker) but very much in 3rd place on (de)merit.

[Snowflake Royal]

Fine, I was assuming that the heat has got to you over there.

Of late you do appear to have joined the rather more argumentative section of our poster base although you have a lot of ground to make up on the top 3 of OMA, Ian and Sangers.

Harsh on Sangers. Will put it down to cognitive decline.

That's a bit harsh on Sangers.
If you follow his postings, as I have to as he is always stalking me, you will find that he is a very argumentative soul going way back to his tory boy days.

Not perhaps in your league or that of OMA (another renowned stalker) but very much in 3rd place on (de)merit.

I think you mistake disagreeing with you as argumentative.

Sangers isn't remotely argumentative.

[South Coast Royal]

Harsh on Sangers. Will put it down to cognitive decline.

That's a bit harsh on Sangers.
If you follow his postings, as I have to as he is always stalking me, you will find that he is a very argumentative soul going way back to his tory boy days.

Not perhaps in your league or that of OMA (another renowned stalker) but very much in 3rd place on (de)merit.

I think you mistake disagreeing with you as argumentative.

Sangers isn't remotely argumentative.

[Clyde1998]

Just my two cents. Following Scotland, I hadn't seen a huge amount of England going into this tournament but did think England were overrated going into it (ie. I didn't think England should've been favourites) due to results against top sides.

I was surprised how underwhelming England were throughout the tournament. Of all the games, only really in a thirty minute spell against the Netherlands did England actually look like a side who could potentially win the competition. Aside from Spain, all the other sides England played were fairly average international teams and didn't look significantly better than them.

From some of the tactical analysis videos I've seen on YouTube, it seems sides knew how England were going to play and put a plan in place to prevent England from doing what they wanted to do. The question is why didn't England change things up? Was it down to Southgate not understanding what was going on, Southgate being too rigid in his tactics, the players not having the correct mentality, the players not being able to play differently?

The impression I got from England during this tournament was there's a great set of individuals, but they're not a team. The countries that win tournaments are good teams.

It feels like England are in a similar situation to the mid-2000s. Whether Southgate leaving will result in England being better will come down to who replaces him. When Sven Goran Eriksson left, it was assumed England would improve but they failed to even qualify for the next tournament (not suggesting that would happen). I don't think it can be assumed Southgate leaving will mean England will suddenly be world beaters. Southgate has done well to get England to two finals and a semi; we'll never know if that's down to his approach or whether England would've done better with a different manager in these tournaments.

The positive for England is there's not any qualifiers until the new year (depending on the group England get, it could be over a year until the next qualifiers). The Nations League will give an opportunity for experimentation, especially as England are in the second tier after being relegated last time - so will be playing Ireland, Finland and Greece, three sides that they should comfortably be finishing above. Additionally, this would allow the FA the ability not to rush an appointment.

I would add that Spain were by far the most deserved winners of this tournament. I can't think of a side that had as difficult a run to the final as they did and they looked comfortably better than anyone else in this tournament - with the possible exception of Germany, who they beat.

[bcubed]

Fair

[Snowflake Royal]

England's problem, when it has truly great players, is that its never a team. Because asa nation we obsess over the next big thing and overhype it. It always becomes about how to make the team servicethe individuals and accommodate them all. Its never about getting the best out of the team and leaving someone who doesn’t fit out.

Southgate's best achievement was that first semi, with a poor England side, where the focus was the Team, not the stars. It was really his easiest run to the semi, but many of his predecessors in the same circumstances would have failed between qualifying and the first KO round even so.

Unfortunately we just had too many stars who didn’t perform and got in each others ways this time. And we still matched by far the best team in the tournamentfor much of the final.