The Frank Lampard tribute thread.

[No Fixed Abode]

:lol:

I'll do some more digging to find it on-line, but it's a fact Soggy. Sorry to piss on your bonfire.

[floyd__streete]

Your opinion means nothing.

^ Rattled

[sandman]

Can't wait for NFA's leave Britney alone style youtube video in defence of Frank.

[No Fixed Abode]

Can't wait for NFA's leave Britney alone style youtube video in defence of Frank.

Ah look - another bum chum joining in. It's sweet really.

[stealthpapes]

bum.

chum.


lol

[Extended-Phenotype]

That's ok, I'm sure it should be available online if its true, so I look forward to your link.

Just repeating he is the second highest scorer doesn't answer my question and seems to suggest you aren't really able to digest the fact that two penalties and two goals against minnow sides doesn't prove Lampard has been able to translate his Chelsea form onto the world stage.

Its not a trick question, dunno why such a big fan of his is having so much difficulty confronting it. No problem, happy to notch this up as a win in the absence of any answer.

Facts are facts. Your opinion means nothing.

But I'm asking for your opinion. And I'm not disputing the fact he scored two penalties and two goals.

I'm asking why you think he hasn't been able to perform for England as well as he does for Chelsea. Its okay to answer, mate - I doubt he will read it.

[No Fixed Abode]

And why are you singling out Frank when the same could be said of any England player?

[Platypuss]

And why are you singling out Frank when the same could be said of any England player?

Because he's the one with a 50 page tribute thread?

[stealthpapes]

Fires up the James Milner tribute thread.

[Extended-Phenotype]

And why are you singling out Frank when the same could be said of any England player?

Because this thread is about Frank Lampard. I'm not disputing the same couldn't be said of others. Just wondered what your opinion was on why Frank Lampard, a player you no doubt admire, has been unable to translate his good form a Chelsea into his performances in an England shirt. I appreciate he scored two penalties over the last year as well as a goal against Moldova and a goal in the 8-0 rout of part-time footballers San Marino, that is good - only five other footballers managed to score two or more goals in open play, and only two others managed to equal or beat his tally overall. But why do you think he in particular has been unable to better that and match his club form in almost a decade since he performed well in those four or so games in 2004, and the three or four games in 2005 during the qualifiers for 06?

Just wondered what your take on it was but so far you have only been able to tell me he has scored four goals which I don't dispute, and given me a stat which you don't seem able to verify.

What is your opinion? That's all I'm asking.

[Ouroboros]

And why are you singling out Frank when the same could be said of any England player?

I'm imagining you're crying now.

Are you crying? Tell me. I'm almost there...

[southbank1871]

Some lovely Paxmaning by EP on the last couple of pages.

[floyd__streete]

Did you THREATEN to overrule him?

The power of Christ COMPELS you

Anyway, the answer to EP's question is an easy one. A player who has performed excellently in the Premier League for more than 15 seasons performs poorly in the England side due to the mediocrity alongside him in the national team and the fact that other top players in the England side have performed poorly too. Over the last decade, Chelsea would beat England 9 times out of 10 if they played each other. Which they can't. It'd be like Transformers vs MASK. Which I'd also like to see

[Extended-Phenotype]

Still silence from Lampard's biggest fan.

Whodathought NFA, one of his greatest admirer's would be so easily defeated? Didn't realise such an innocent question would cause so much upset.


Don't buy your answer, Streete. Good players can still shine in poor teams, and Lampard has been surrounded mostly by other Chelsea players for the last decade, or at least other players who anyone would say were at least as good as Frank himself - Terry, A Cole, Joe Cole, Wright-Phillips, Gerrard, Rooney, Beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, Campbell, Scholes, Walcott, Lennon, the Neville's - that's some decent and familiar enough quality alongside anyone for them to shine if they were a top player.

Suggesting Lampard's disappointing international form is down to these players not playing well is a feedback-loop; you could well say the reason they didn't play well was because of the other players, including Lampard - which returns scrutiny back to the individual.

So why has Lampard been unable to produce the international quality that his club hype suggests?

[southbank1871]

However, I think one of the reasons Lampard has been so effective for Chelsea is because he has been playing with the likes of Drogba, Essien, Mikel, Mata etc etc. The same can be said for pretty much every other England player who performs better for their club side than they do for their country (i.e. all of them).

[Royalclapper]

It's because he is a moderately talented player who is fairly competent at doing the minimum requirement things pretty well for a player in his central midfield position. Beyond that, he's unable to really be a stand out player. A touch more physicality or a touch more natural skill to his game would lift him above his decent but not outstanding status for the national side.

His teammate Ashley Cole is a notch above Lampard in terms of International player status and has been one of the few genuinely top class players in the England side over the last decade or so.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think it's more to do with the fans.

For club, these players live in a bubble where they are never criticised for a misplaced pass, scuffed shot or anonymous game. They are Frank Lampard, Chelsea untouchable. Walk out on the pitch for England and that bubble isn't there anymore - England fans are made of people who will criticise a poor performance, nobody is safe from fair, balanced scrutiny. He simply chokes.

If at club level we weren't so bonkers and protective over our talismen maybe they'd be better prepared for the real world of football. To support this, some of England's best performers in recent times have been new players before the hype has really taken hold.

It takes true quality to be able to sustain your performance under pressure. Frank doesn't have it and no amount of penalties against farmers or invented statistics which cannot be found anywhere in the age of information, will change that.

[Vision]

I don't think he chokes it's just that he's spent the last decade (Benitez spell aside) playing in a side which is tailor made to make the most of his strengths. He's an excellent finisher and makes good late clever runs into the penalty area. But that was built over time at Chelsea (I dont recall him being especially prolific in his West Ham days). For the same reason I think that's why Chelsea has been something of a graveyard for strikers in that time (Drogba being the exception). A significant number of World Class strikers who have scored everywhere they've been have struggled at Chelsea even with their vast array of creative talent

Perversely I have a theory that actually as far as International football goes he'd have probably fared better (or certainly rated a lot better) if he wasn't of the supposed goLOLden generation. If everyone else was mince we may have found a way of crudely working to the strengths above. Doubt it would have benefitted England at all but certainly Lampard would be better regarded.

FWIW i don't think he's been bad for England at all. I think he's the best finisher we have and whilst I wouldn't start him in Brazil I definitely think there's a place for him in the squad.

[stealthpapes]

Still silence from Lampard's biggest fan.

Whodathought NFA, one of his greatest admirer's would be so easily defeated? Didn't realise such an innocent question would cause so much upset.


Don't buy your answer, Streete. Good players can still shine in poor teams, and Lampard has been surrounded mostly by other Chelsea players for the last decade, or at least other players who anyone would say were at least as good as Frank himself - Terry, A Cole, Joe Cole, Wright-Phillips, Gerrard, Rooney, Beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, Campbell, Scholes, Walcott, Lennon, the Neville's - that's some decent and familiar enough quality alongside anyone for them to shine if they were a top player.

Suggesting Lampard's disappointing international form is down to these players not playing well is a feedback-loop; you could well say the reason they didn't play well was because of the other players, including Lampard - which returns scrutiny back to the individual.

So why has Lampard been unable to produce the international quality that his club hype suggests?

Some suggestions:

1) The relentlessly retarded Lampard-Gerrard partnership makes them both look shit

2) related - he might need a specific player, slightly behind him, to cover for his runs

3) lesser factor, imo - his style doesn't suit that of the final stages of international tournaments but that's the whole team, really.

[Extended-Phenotype]

A significant number of World Class strikers who have scored everywhere they've been have struggled at Chelsea even with their vast array of creative talent

That's because Lampard, goals aside, isn't particularly supportive in midfield - as we see for England. Can't remember the last time he fed a decent through ball or broke a defence open with a pass. I can remember however, that goal he scored against San Marino and the penalty he scored against Moldova.

Even his biggest fan can only remember these positives, which says it all really.