England vs Holland

[No Fixed Abode]

.................................Hart........................................

Richards..........Jones.................Terry.......................Cole

.....................Wiltshire.........Parker...............................


Sturridge....................Lampard..........................Young


...............................Rooney



IMO With the right manager managing, this team could do something in the euros.

That's a bit better.

[Victor Meldrew]

.................................Hart........................................

Richards..........Jones.................Terry.......................Cole

.....................Wiltshire.........Parker...............................


Sturridge....................Lampard..........................Young


...............................Rooney



IMO With the right manager managing, this team could do something in the euros.

That's a bit better.

So that's 3 of the biggest divers in English football in that midfield 3.
So our new cunning plan is to try and deceive the refs at the Euros-priceless.

[who are ya?]

So that's 3 of the biggest divers in English football in that midfield 3.

He took Gerrard out though

[ZacNaloen]

So that's 3 of the biggest divers in English football in that midfield 3.

He took Gerrard out though

It was a dive mate

[FiNeRaIn]

So that's 3 of the biggest divers in English football in that midfield 3.

Good, about time England played everyone else at their own game. People keep diving/playacting against us every tournament and getting our players sent off...why can't we do it back? The only place morals gets you is kicked out of tournaments

Italy would never have won the world cup if grosso hadn't dived against australia, or materazzi against france in the final for instance.

Spain dive as soon as there is any sign of contact...yet everyone faps because they can pass it.

[daswonder]

Italy would never have won the world cup if grosso hadn't dived against australia, or materazzi against france in the final for instance.

Really? How about the Aussie that dived to get Materazzi sent off in that same game? Or the fact that Zidane head butted him in the chest in the final.

Don't let the facts distract from your rant though

[Ian Royal]

Still think there was a lot of positives to take out of that game. All things being equal, I'd probably like to see something like this to start the tournament:

Hart
Richards
Cole
Lescott
Cahill
Parker
Wilshire
Gerrard
Downing
Young
Bent

I think defensively we can go into the tournament with fairly high hopes, but attacking we look weak on reliable quality options. Wilshire paired with Parker, should IMO at least start to sort out the lack we saw in the Holland game of playing a dangerous ball forward to advance possession and really start opening up a team. Rather than just playing one twos with central defenders.

I know he's not genuinely world class and isn't having a great season at Liverpool, but I do think Downing is the best choice for the TEAM to play wide left. Likewise, Parker isn't a world beater, but he's the best option we've got. And as we (and teh Greeks) know you don't need a team of superstars to win tournaments, you need a TEAM with reasonable quality throughout, that plays AS A TEAM.

[sheshnu]

:shock: Really? How about the Aussie that dived to get Materazzi sent off in that same game? Or the fact that Zidane head butted him in the chest in the final.

Don't let the facts distract from your rant though

First up: @ Zidane's headbutt. Absolute Legend.

Furthermore though, I agree with Finerain that England do seem to be lagging behind somewhat in the diving department. We've all seen national teams win championships utilising the 'tactic' (alongside no lack of skill) but it's still frowned upon in these parts; we should probably just sink to 'their' level and see where it gets us. I thought that it might have happened a generation ago when the likes of Terry and Gerrard would cheat their teams to a win every week in the Premier League, but it seems they weren't clever enough to fool continental refs. Maybe the new lot will have brought us closer.


Yay.

[Handsome Man]

Andy Carroll should be that player, not sure what is hindering his development really, perhaps just a lifestyle problem.

Peter Crouch?

Carroll should be the player, and it would be fantastic if he was England's number 9, playing like a proper tall, fast, tough centre forward of the sort we haven't had since somebody like Mark Hateley. No foreign manager would be able to sap his passion.

A year ago it looked as though he could have been great. However, the only thing sadder than seeing Steven Gerrard fail to dominate a championship midfield was seeing Carroll flounder against a championship defence on Sunday. There is definitely something wrong. Sometimes players have an injury that effectively ends their career - perhaps falling off the barstool this time last year was it.

[TBM]

Why does everyone put Wilshire in a defensive position?

He can't tackle

[comeonyouroyals]

Why does everyone put Wilshire in a defensive position?

He can't tackle

In the same way Scholes sits deep, his range of passing playing a quarterback style role is suited to the postion on the pitch, also he does alot of hassleing as such thats the perfect area on the pitch for him.

[TBM]

Why does everyone put Wilshire in a defensive position?

He can't tackle

In the same way Scholes sits deep, his range of passing playing a quarterback style role is suited to the postion on the pitch, also he does alot of hassleing as such thats the perfect area on the pitch for him.

I'd rather he sat a bit further up field and fed the front 3 but i see what you mean.

[Z175]

Wilshire paired with Parker.... Rather than just playing one twos with central defenders....
Parker isn't a world beater, but he's the best option we've got. And as we (and teh Greeks) know you don't need a team of superstars to win tournaments, you need a TEAM with reasonable quality throughout, that plays AS A TEAM.

Greece is a on off. For me Parkers one-twos with centre backs aren't enough for the international stage. Arjen Robben is the class of player we will be playing, like Nasri, like Ozil, and Parkers not got enough pace/tackling ability. I admire his attitude and desire to block, but he will be 35 shortly after the next world cup so for me hes not the cure for the Gerrard/Lampard ills. Likewise Barry is more solid, and Carrick is argubly better at passing and retaining the ball that either, but they are all into their 30s already.

Lets look at Klinnsmans German babes of 2006 and get Pearcey to take a roughly U21s side. The next manager could then have a real chance in Brazil and France 2018.

[TBM]

Wilshire paired with Parker.... Rather than just playing one twos with central defenders....
Parker isn't a world beater, but he's the best option we've got. And as we (and teh Greeks) know you don't need a team of superstars to win tournaments, you need a TEAM with reasonable quality throughout, that plays AS A TEAM.

Greece is a on off. For me Parkers one-twos with centre backs aren't enough for the international stage. Arjen Robben is the class of player we will be playing, like Nasri, like Ozil, and Parkers not got enough pace/tackling ability. I admire his attitude and desire to block, but he will be 35 shortly after the next world cup so for me hes not the cure for the Gerrard/Lampard ills. Likewise Barry is more solid, and Carrick is argubly better at passing and retaining the ball that either, but they are all into their 30s already.

Lets look at Klinnsmans German babes of 2006 and get Pearcey to take a roughly U21s side. The next manager could then have a real chance in Brazil and France 2018.

Germany still had the likes of Ballack and Frings in midfield and Lehmann in goal back in 2006.....so you can't omit these experienced players and hope the youngsters learn from losing in a tournament. Even in 2010 Germany were going to the competition with a few older players before they got injured which forced the likes of Özil, Khedira etc in to the side.

[Hoop Blah]

Wilshire paired with Parker.... Rather than just playing one twos with central defenders....
Parker isn't a world beater, but he's the best option we've got. And as we (and teh Greeks) know you don't need a team of superstars to win tournaments, you need a TEAM with reasonable quality throughout, that plays AS A TEAM.

Greece is a on off. For me Parkers one-twos with centre backs aren't enough for the international stage. Arjen Robben is the class of player we will be playing, like Nasri, like Ozil, and Parkers not got enough pace/tackling ability. I admire his attitude and desire to block, but he will be 35 shortly after the next world cup so for me hes not the cure for the Gerrard/Lampard ills. Likewise Barry is more solid, and Carrick is argubly better at passing and retaining the ball that either, but they are all into their 30s already.

Lets look at Klinnsmans German babes of 2006 and get Pearcey to take a roughly U21s side. The next manager could then have a real chance in Brazil and France 2018.

Are Denmark another one off? Teams do over perform, and under perform, at tournaments as they're such short blasts of form so the potential for upsets are greater. They might not win it no, but there are quite a few examples of teams doing a lot better (or worse) than expected over the years.

Parkers done enough in the Premier League over the last couple of seasons to show that he can stifle very good players. That's what he's there to do and although he's got limitations I'd argue he's good enough to do the job. He's not going to do it for too many years no, but he's the best we've got at that role right now so I think we have to go with him. As for pace, who are the best in that role at the moment? I'd say van Bommel is right up there and he's no quicker than Parker (who is actually very quick on the turn which more than makes up for his lack of genuine pace over longer distances).

Personally I'd hoped that Cattermole might've trained on a bit the last 12 months to mount a real challenge for the position, but unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. There isn't anyone else from the U21s of the last season or two that I'd say is close to Parkers level yet. Will someone like Frimpong, Barkley, Rodwell, Cleverly or McEachran step up after the Euro's? Possibly, but they've all got a long way to go.

[BR2]

Why does everyone put Wilshire in a defensive position?

He can't tackle

In the same way Scholes sits deep, his range of passing playing a quarterback style role is suited to the postion on the pitch, also he does alot of hassleing as such thats the perfect area on the pitch for him.

I'd rather he sat a bit further up field and fed the front 3 but i see what you mean.

The trouble with that is he never scores.
It's interesting how this player's reputation has got greater and greater the less he plays.
There is no doubt that he had potential but who knows if he will fully recover from this injury?
Remember the lad Lake at Man City who had the world at his feet as a youngster but never recovered from a serious injury.

[TBM]

The trouble with that is he never scores.

Thats the only concern, granted.......but with 3 "forward" players infront of him hopefully that wont be an issue if they bang in from his assist

[Hoop Blah]

Why does everyone put Wilshire in a defensive position?

He can't tackle

In the same way Scholes sits deep, his range of passing playing a quarterback style role is suited to the postion on the pitch, also he does alot of hassleing as such thats the perfect area on the pitch for him.

I'd rather he sat a bit further up field and fed the front 3 but i see what you mean.

The way football is moving recently I'd say that the deeper midfielders a less and less seen as tacklers like a Batty, Butt or Makelele were a few years back. You can't tackle in the same way and, with more and more teams playing with 1 or 3 upfront the space in front of the back four gives a bit more freedom for a more creative player (who's disciplined enough to mark the space and pick up runners from deep) to run the game. Italy have had Pirlo do this for a few years, Spains midfield has been made up of them with the likes of Xavi and Alonso and I see the likes of Wilshire or McEachran playing a lot of their career in the same way if this trend remains.

I don't think Wilshire scores enough goals (perhaps that'll come though) to play in a more advanced role in that kind of formation and when he's been at his best for Arsenal (like the Barca game where he seemed to really come of age) he's been in the think of it, much like Scholes used to be really.

[Hoop Blah]

The trouble with that is he never scores.
It's interesting how this player's reputation has got greater and greater the less he plays.
There is no doubt that he had potential but who knows if he will fully recover from this injury?
Remember the lad Lake at Man City who had the world at his feet as a youngster but never recovered from a serious injury.

I think his reputation was pretty nailed once he'd established himself last season. His performances for England and Arsenal, especially the game against Barca I mentioned above, moved him up a few notches in most peoples eyes. Rightly so for me too.

There's certainly a risk that his injuries at the moment might halt that progress, but we've got the hope that it doesn't.

Another one from City who's gone the same way is Micheal Johnson. He looked the nuts before the last 3 years or so of injuries.

[TBM]

The way football is moving recently I'd say that the deeper midfielders a less and less seen as tacklers like a Batty, Butt or Makelele were a few years back. You can't tackle in the same way and, with more and more teams playing with 1 or 3 upfront the space in front of the back four gives a bit more freedom for a more creative player (who's disciplined enough to mark the space and pick up runners from deep) to run the game. Italy have had Pirlo do this for a few years, Spains midfield has been made up of them with the likes of Xavi and Alonso and I see the likes of Wilshire or McEachran playing a lot of their career in the same way if this trend remains.

I don't think Wilshire scores enough goals (perhaps that'll come though) to play in a more advanced role in that kind of formation and when he's been at his best for Arsenal (like the Barca game where he seemed to really come of age) he's been in the think of it, much like Scholes used to be really.

Makes sense

I just wouldn't feel comfortable if Robben was running at our team and he came up against Wilshire in that dangerous position in front of the back 4 - would rather it were Barry and Parker with Wilshire sat just in front then have Ronney, Walcott, Young up top