Weekend Football

[YorkshireRoyal99]

LOL at Spurs.....absolute shite. Lucky it was only 2.
Wasn't Djed Spence supposed to be the next big thing? His career is nosediving fast bench warming there.
Kane will regret not signing for a better club. Wasted his career there.
It's hilarious watching their fans in meltdown, and with Arsenal top and playing the best football in the league by a country mile the pain they must be feeling.....

They are so dry, although that seems to be what the board want there. After Poch, they went for Mourinho, Nuno and now Conte, all 3 of them with defensive approaches to the game, reactive rather than proactive with their approach. The squad has a lot of attacking potential but their first thought is always backwards, or just keeping it, slowing it down etc. Probing and being patient is fine, but it's just so dull.

I can't see Conte lasting much longer to be honest, but they need a different type of manager, someone like the guy at Napoli would be a good choice for them.

[Ascotexgunner]

LOL at Spurs.....absolute shite. Lucky it was only 2.
Wasn't Djed Spence supposed to be the next big thing? His career is nosediving fast bench warming there.
Kane will regret not signing for a better club. Wasted his career there.
It's hilarious watching their fans in meltdown, and with Arsenal top and playing the best football in the league by a country mile the pain they must be feeling.....

They are so dry, although that seems to be what the board want there. After Poch, they went for Mourinho, Nuno and now Conte, all 3 of them with defensive approaches to the game, reactive rather than proactive with their approach. The squad has a lot of attacking potential but their first thought is always backwards, or just keeping it, slowing it down etc. Probing and being patient is fine, but it's just so dull.

I can't see Conte lasting much longer to be honest, but they need a different type of manager, someone like the guy at Napoli would be a good choice for them.

I heard that Conte has never got past the last 16 in the CL. I know he has a title at Chelsea and Napoli but surely is that "Elite"? Or is he just another Ranieri?.....Never really seen as a big "Elite" name but got a decent CV.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

LOL at Spurs.....absolute shite. Lucky it was only 2.
Wasn't Djed Spence supposed to be the next big thing? His career is nosediving fast bench warming there.
Kane will regret not signing for a better club. Wasted his career there.
It's hilarious watching their fans in meltdown, and with Arsenal top and playing the best football in the league by a country mile the pain they must be feeling.....

They are so dry, although that seems to be what the board want there. After Poch, they went for Mourinho, Nuno and now Conte, all 3 of them with defensive approaches to the game, reactive rather than proactive with their approach. The squad has a lot of attacking potential but their first thought is always backwards, or just keeping it, slowing it down etc. Probing and being patient is fine, but it's just so dull.

I can't see Conte lasting much longer to be honest, but they need a different type of manager, someone like the guy at Napoli would be a good choice for them.

I heard that Conte has never got past the last 16 in the CL. I know he has a title at Chelsea and Napoli but surely is that "Elite"? Or is he just another Ranieri?.....Never really seen as a big "Elite" name but got a decent CV.

I'd say he's a top coach who probably peaked during sort of 2012-2018, although I don't think the problems are all down to him either. I just think Spurs need a coach with a more open style of play. He's capable of success, I just don't think he's the right fit for Spurs.

[URZZZZ]

They are so dry, although that seems to be what the board want there. After Poch, they went for Mourinho, Nuno and now Conte, all 3 of them with defensive approaches to the game, reactive rather than proactive with their approach. The squad has a lot of attacking potential but their first thought is always backwards, or just keeping it, slowing it down etc. Probing and being patient is fine, but it's just so dull.

I can't see Conte lasting much longer to be honest, but they need a different type of manager, someone like the guy at Napoli would be a good choice for them.

I heard that Conte has never got past the last 16 in the CL. I know he has a title at Chelsea and Napoli but surely is that "Elite"? Or is he just another Ranieri?.....Never really seen as a big "Elite" name but got a decent CV.

I'd say he's a top coach who probably peaked during sort of 2012-2018, although I don't think the problems are all down to him either. I just think Spurs need a coach with a more open style of play. He's capable of success, I just don't think he's the right fit for Spurs.

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch. They were appalling towards the end of his tenure. They didn’t win a single away league game for 9 months before he was sacked, they were humiliated by Bayern and knocked out the League Cup by Colchester. Fair enough - they got to the Champions League final but they were dreadful and he dropped the player who single handedly got them through the semis

I don’t see them bringing him back achieving anything and I don’t understand the calls to bring him back. Second visits rarely work. I’d be tempted to give it to someone like Mason if results don’t pick up soon and having another reset. It’s difficult though because Spurs cleared a lot of the deadwood these past couple of summers, the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Winks, Lamela, Alli etc etc but they haven’t improved

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I heard that Conte has never got past the last 16 in the CL. I know he has a title at Chelsea and Napoli but surely is that "Elite"? Or is he just another Ranieri?.....Never really seen as a big "Elite" name but got a decent CV.

I'd say he's a top coach who probably peaked during sort of 2012-2018, although I don't think the problems are all down to him either. I just think Spurs need a coach with a more open style of play. He's capable of success, I just don't think he's the right fit for Spurs.

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch. They were appalling towards the end of his tenure. They didn’t win a single away league game for 9 months before he was sacked, they were humiliated by Bayern and knocked out the League Cup by Colchester. Fair enough - they got to the Champions League final but they were dreadful and he dropped the player who single handedly got them through the semis

I don’t see them bringing him back achieving anything and I don’t understand the calls to bring him back. Second visits rarely work. I’d be tempted to give it to someone like Mason if results don’t pick up soon and having another reset. It’s difficult though because Spurs cleared a lot of the deadwood these past couple of summers, the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Winks, Lamela, Alli etc etc but they haven’t improved

They haven't won anything under these managers who are proven winners either, so they aren't exactly losing anything by getting rid of them for someone with less of a tag next to their name, but someone who can actually build something with them and with a style of play that the fans can get behind.

Nothing lasts forever and Poch's tenure was no different to many others either, look at Klopp at both Mainz and Dortmund for example, they completely fell off a cliff. Also I'm not saying Spurs should re-hire Poch, I don't think that's the answer, although likewise I do think they need to move for someone like him, with a more progressive style of play that's easier on the eye and can get results.

Agree to an extent that Mason would be a decent candidate for a reset and a fair crack at the whip and might be able to provide what's missing for them. But they've tried proven winners with a dull style of play and it hasn't worked for them, they really aren't much better now than they were previously.

[URZZZZ]

I'd say he's a top coach who probably peaked during sort of 2012-2018, although I don't think the problems are all down to him either. I just think Spurs need a coach with a more open style of play. He's capable of success, I just don't think he's the right fit for Spurs.

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch. They were appalling towards the end of his tenure. They didn’t win a single away league game for 9 months before he was sacked, they were humiliated by Bayern and knocked out the League Cup by Colchester. Fair enough - they got to the Champions League final but they were dreadful and he dropped the player who single handedly got them through the semis

I don’t see them bringing him back achieving anything and I don’t understand the calls to bring him back. Second visits rarely work. I’d be tempted to give it to someone like Mason if results don’t pick up soon and having another reset. It’s difficult though because Spurs cleared a lot of the deadwood these past couple of summers, the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Winks, Lamela, Alli etc etc but they haven’t improved

They haven't won anything under these managers who are proven winners either, so they aren't exactly losing anything by getting rid of them for someone with less of a tag next to their name, but someone who can actually build something with them and with a style of play that the fans can get behind.

Nothing lasts forever and Poch's tenure was no different to many others either, look at Klopp at both Mainz and Dortmund for example, they completely fell off a cliff. Also I'm not saying Spurs should re-hire Poch, I don't think that's the answer, although likewise I do think they need to move for someone like him, with a more progressive style of play that's easier on the eye and can get results.

Agree to an extent that Mason would be a decent candidate for a reset and a fair crack at the whip and might be able to provide what's missing for them. But they've tried proven winners with a dull style of play and it hasn't worked for them, they really aren't much better now than they were previously.

“Dull style of play” - weren’t they the first team in Europe to hit 100 goals under Mourinho the season he was there! Course it all fell apart as it always does under Mourinho but I don’t think the whole tenure was quite as bad as people made out. Kane and Son (could be wrong here) were in the form of their life weren’t they? Granted it’s been some turgid stuff under Conte this season. It’s an odd one - he’s persevering with a wingback formation when they’re obviously in awful form. Emerson plays like he hasn’t seen a football before

On the contrary, whilst defensive football does stifle the game, I’d throw out that there that the lack of invention in attacking patterns are equally contributing. If a team is sitting deep against you, slow passing round the back and midfield won’t cut it. Teams seem to have lost variety in how they play nowadays

[Royal Rother]

I heard that Conte has never got past the last 16 in the CL. I know he has a title at Chelsea and Napoli but surely is that "Elite"? Or is he just another Ranieri?.....Never really seen as a big "Elite" name but got a decent CV.

I'd say he's a top coach who probably peaked during sort of 2012-2018, although I don't think the problems are all down to him either. I just think Spurs need a coach with a more open style of play. He's capable of success, I just don't think he's the right fit for Spurs.

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch.

The revisionism I see is opposite to how you see it.

I am no Spurs fan yet for a number of years thought they were brilliant to watch under Poch - they played fantastic football.

Because the last 9 months or so of his tenure were poor, there seems a reluctance to acknowledge how great the improvement he brought about actually was, and how superb they were on the eye for years.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch. They were appalling towards the end of his tenure. They didn’t win a single away league game for 9 months before he was sacked, they were humiliated by Bayern and knocked out the League Cup by Colchester. Fair enough - they got to the Champions League final but they were dreadful and he dropped the player who single handedly got them through the semis

I don’t see them bringing him back achieving anything and I don’t understand the calls to bring him back. Second visits rarely work. I’d be tempted to give it to someone like Mason if results don’t pick up soon and having another reset. It’s difficult though because Spurs cleared a lot of the deadwood these past couple of summers, the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Winks, Lamela, Alli etc etc but they haven’t improved

They haven't won anything under these managers who are proven winners either, so they aren't exactly losing anything by getting rid of them for someone with less of a tag next to their name, but someone who can actually build something with them and with a style of play that the fans can get behind.

Nothing lasts forever and Poch's tenure was no different to many others either, look at Klopp at both Mainz and Dortmund for example, they completely fell off a cliff. Also I'm not saying Spurs should re-hire Poch, I don't think that's the answer, although likewise I do think they need to move for someone like him, with a more progressive style of play that's easier on the eye and can get results.

Agree to an extent that Mason would be a decent candidate for a reset and a fair crack at the whip and might be able to provide what's missing for them. But they've tried proven winners with a dull style of play and it hasn't worked for them, they really aren't much better now than they were previously.

“Dull style of play” - weren’t they the first team in Europe to hit 100 goals under Mourinho the season he was there! Course it all fell apart as it always does under Mourinho but I don’t think the whole tenure was quite as bad as people made out. Kane and Son (could be wrong here) were in the form of their life weren’t they? Granted it’s been some turgid stuff under Conte this season. It’s an odd one - he’s persevering with a wingback formation when they’re obviously in awful form. Emerson plays like he hasn’t seen a football before

On the contrary, whilst defensive football does stifle the game, I’d throw out that there that the lack of invention in attacking patterns are equally contributing. If a team is sitting deep against you, slow passing round the back and midfield won’t cut it. Teams seem to have lost variety in how they play nowadays

I'd be inclined to agree on Mourinho, I don't think it was as bad as what people think, but it was also not successful either, they recorded some great wins and yes, you could argue Kane and Son were at their peak under him, but everything else was pretty underwhelming.

I think the attacking patterns comes down to the manager though. If he's just wanting to them to keep hold of the ball and wait for opportunities to open up and moving the ball slowly, then that comes down to him. I think they could have a manager that has a more direct attacking approach, that wants to get the ball forward quickly and be quicker in attacking areas and a bit more proactive in breaking the opposition down.

[From Despair To Where?]

Are we missing the elephant in the room here?

Spurs have won 2 league cups in 30 years and nothing for 15. The fact they've won nothing under their last 3 managers is hardly against the grain.

They've not won the league for 60+ years and only done that twice. They're always playing catch up to the other "big" teams.

Having said that, Spurs' last 3 owners all seem to have been more interested in business than football.

[genome]

Daniel Levy is the common denominator here. These performances have been happening under the last 4 managers, it's a result of poor investment and depth. Spurs' bench yesterday was horrific.

Spurs seem to be in a weird sort of halfway house - no real identity in recruitment, or managerial appointments. If they want to invest in young talent and develop them they would do worse than going back to Pochettino really. If they want to go all out now to win trophies they need to start acting fully like a big club, and not half-arse it - give Conte the money and buy the players. Instead there's a sort of weird mix of ambition and not wanting to spend.

Spurs haven't won much for ages but I don't think there's anything wrong with having ambition, but there is if it's all talk. Honestly I don't think Levy will ever change, so for Spurs to move forward he needs to go.

[From Despair To Where?]

Thats what I meant about the owners. Scholar wanted to build a "Spurs empire" with other companies under a Spurs brand and it nearly bankrupted the club. Sugar was always looking for added or resale value for players. Wouldn't offer Sheringham a decent contract because he was too old so he went to United, won shed loads of trophies and was still playing in the Premier League 10 years later. Turned down Ince for £4m becaue he was 30. Levy seems a more circumspect version of Scholar. Nice stadium with great business potential and all that but team doesn't seem to be a priority.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Not sure anybody can point too many fingers at Levy for penny-pinching this time around as Spurs have invested heavily in the last couple of seasons, I've got about 260 million euro's from the source I've looked at whereas they've only received just shy of 75 million euro's in return, so it's fair to say it's not a lack of investment, but rather maybe it's worth questioning the signings that have been made really. Now whether that's Conte who decides that, Levy or it's just a collective, I don't know, but clearly something isn't right there.

Conte probably should get another couple of windows to bring in these creative players he thinks they lack and obviously injuries to the likes of Kulusevski, Bentancur and Richarlison won't help with strength in depth when they are injured at the moment. The thing for me is they are distinctly average at the back. Lloris is error prone, Emerson Royal can be a liability, Dier has an error in him, Romero can be too rash and Davies is probably their most consistent defender, but he's not top class. Lenglet as well hasn't looked brilliant and collectively they just look weak in that area.

They've seen quite a lot of change in the squad over the last couple of years so it might take time to settle and probably only need a really good goalkeeper, central defender and creative player to be a CL side again. Wing backs could use improving but not really a priority, they need to sort the spine of the team out first. Kane is world class, Bentancur and Hojbjerg is a good base but they do need a creator and a real quality CB in order to improve I think.

[Ascotexgunner]

Daniel Levy is the common denominator here. These performances have been happening under the last 4 managers, it's a result of poor investment and depth. Spurs' bench yesterday was horrific.

Spurs seem to be in a weird sort of halfway house - no real identity in recruitment, or managerial appointments. If they want to invest in young talent and develop them they would do worse than going back to Pochettino really. If they want to go all out now to win trophies they need to start acting fully like a big club, and not half-arse it - give Conte the money and buy the players. Instead there's a sort of weird mix of ambition and not wanting to spend.

Spurs haven't won much for ages but I don't think there's anything wrong with having ambition, but there is if it's all talk. Honestly I don't think Levy will ever change, so for Spurs to move forward he needs to go.

The trouble with Spurs fans....like Chelsea...is the extreme levels of delusion and pride. The manager they should have had was right under their nose but the fact he was at Arsenal means it wasn't even a consideration. Unai Emery is a quality underrated manager, when Villa got him he was a brilliant fit. Villa fans (another bunch of deluded self entitled fans) seemed underwhelmed.....how things change in a short space of time.
As a poster said above, Spurs have spent fortunes on managers who play awful styles of football. Best manager Spurs have had in the last 20 years was Martin Jol. Never giver the proper funds or a real chance I felt. At times it seemed like the fans were always against him even when things were going well. George Graham did alright but that was seen as toxic...for obvious reasons.

The same can be aimed at a chunk of Arsenal fans as well. Their treatment of Arteta last season was embarrassing, the moaning when he got rid of Ozil and Aubamayang who were clearly an issue was pathetic. Well done the board there that stood firm and gave him a chance.

[genome]

I hear that a lot and I don't get it. I'm close to several Spurs fans and I follow them myself and none of them are entitled or arrogant. Just wanting the team to be ambitious and win trophies, there's nothing wrong with that all. Spurs fans know their history, especially recently

There is an element of frustration too as they were right on the cusp of success in 2017 and blew it

[From Despair To Where?]

I know couple of Spurs fans. Funnily enough, they were both Liverpool fans but jumped ship to Spurs in 2014.

I do enjoy pointing out that their timing was impeccable.

[URZZZZ]

I'd say he's a top coach who probably peaked during sort of 2012-2018, although I don't think the problems are all down to him either. I just think Spurs need a coach with a more open style of play. He's capable of success, I just don't think he's the right fit for Spurs.

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch.

The revisionism I see is opposite to how you see it.

I am no Spurs fan yet for a number of years thought they were brilliant to watch under Poch - they played fantastic football.

Because the last 9 months or so of his tenure were poor, there seems a reluctance to acknowledge how great the improvement he brought about actually was, and how superb they were on the eye for years.

But ultimately there was nothing to show for it - which is probably why credit for him becomes more reserved

Fair enough - the transformation in the side originally was brilliant without spending much at all, look how good Kane, Alli (for a bit) were etc etc - but to win 0 trophies in 5/6 seasons is pretty underwhelming for the squad he eventually assembled

Ultimately though - game of opinions, some people would take the pleasing style on the eye with no trophies, others wouldn’t

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I wouldn’t entirely disagree but in this so called “open style of play”, how many trophies did Spurs win under Pochettino? He did a very good job of rebuilding the squad, came close to winning the title and then fell away towards the end. This pattern of starting well and dropping off seems to be very applicable to Poch, Mourinho and now Conte (although obviously Poch’s was a lot more prolonged)

But I do think there’s a lot of revisionism going on about Poch.

The revisionism I see is opposite to how you see it.

I am no Spurs fan yet for a number of years thought they were brilliant to watch under Poch - they played fantastic football.

Because the last 9 months or so of his tenure were poor, there seems a reluctance to acknowledge how great the improvement he brought about actually was, and how superb they were on the eye for years.

But ultimately there was nothing to show for it - which is probably why credit for him becomes more reserved

Fair enough - the transformation in the side originally was brilliant without spending much at all, look how good Kane, Alli (for a bit) were etc etc - but to win 0 trophies in 5/6 seasons is pretty underwhelming for the squad he eventually assembled

Ultimately though - game of opinions, some people would take the pleasing style on the eye with no trophies, others wouldn’t

I suppose you can say likewise with the current football they are playing and have been doing under Mourinho, Nuno and Conte, although there is still time for that to change if Conte remains in charge for the season.

I think it's a case of these really top clubs want both and that translates to the owners as well. Top clubs want/need trophies but they also don't want to be watching dull football whilst doing so. Obviously with worldwide fanbases potentially screaming from the rooftops and partially making the clubs as big and financially sound as they are, owners would be silly to neglect that.

On the flip side, it's not the fans who run the club. Lord Sugar did an interview a year or so ago saying that fans should never be part of running the club, as (in this case with Spurs) you've got 60,000 managers shouting from their seats and the clubs would get nowhere.

[URZZZZ]

Do feel a bit for Lampard as it’s evident the squad isn’t good enough but think it has to be time for him to go

[6ft Kerplunk]

Ref books Almiron for not retreating behind the white line he's sprayed for a freekick. After the booking Almiron still doesn't move backwards behind the line. Ref just blows for the freekick to be taken. Utter nonsense, if it's a bookable offence the first time, book him again and send him off.

[6ft Kerplunk]

Premier League officials not going along with the World Cup style added on time. Should've been at least 10mins in this ARSvNEW match just for the time wasting instead it's 5.