Points Deduction AGAIN

[paultheroyal]

Meanwhile today is the day clubs accounts are being published - some noticeable delays however QPR are losing £2m a month and Birmingham not far behind that

[morganb]

Came across a reference to this reddit post on Twitter -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Championship/c ... ion_in_18/

Given that today is March 1st, the most likely thing that happened is this.

6.2 The Club is also subject to a suspended sanction of 6 points to be deducted from its season points total in Season 2021/22 (or Season 2022/23), on the first occasion on or before 30 June 2023 that: i) the Club fails to file such documents as are required to be filed in accordance with the provisions of Rule 2.2 of the P&S Rules by 1 March in the relevant Season(s);

2.2 The League shall determine whether consideration included in the Club’s Earnings Before Tax arising from an Associated Party Transaction is recorded in the Club’s Annual Accounts at a Fair Market Value. If it is not, The League shall restate it to Fair Market Value.

Fair Market Value adjustment?

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Think the club should have already released a statement by now. At least the end of the season should be exciting

Well you'd expect it, as its not fair on Ince having to field questions tomorrow in the usual press conf

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Meanwhile today is the day clubs accounts are being published - some noticeable delays however QPR are losing £2m a month and Birmingham not far behind that

Yeah we might not be the only club to suffer such fate this season especially given what's hanging around with Birmingham at the moment, I think it was reported they were losing £600k a week at one stage and the only thing that got them out of any further punishment were the sales of Che Adams and Jude Bellingham.

2 things for me now:

1) Get this season over with, ideally in 21st or higher
2) Please someone come and take over from the Dai's

[Elm Park Kid]

My thoughts:

1. I was already confused by the extent of our signings we've made. Sure, all free agents, but anyone with any understanding of football finances knows that the fee can be only a small part of the overall cost. We brought in PL loans and given contracts to the likes of Andy Carroll. I didn't understand how we could afford to do this.
2. It's no surprise that the EFL aren't micromanaging us. We agreed a business plan, the EFL expect us to follow it, whatever financial reporting we've had to do recently has apparently convinced the EFL that we haven't.
3. I am surprised that we would allow ourselves to get into this situation. Maybe we were pushing things to the absolute wire and the EFL have simply interpreted something differently to us. Or maybe a revenue stream that we were expecting didn't happen. My best guess is that we gambled on something that didn't pay off.
4. If . . .if that is the case then I don't blame the EFL for now continuing with our 6 point deduction. The whole point of the process was to get our spending better inline with our income, and we have apparently failed.
5. I don't agree with people saying that the EFL sanctions are 'flawed' if a club is unable to survive under them. No club has a god-given right to stay in any league. If our revenues don't support a Championship level wage bill then we don't deserve to be a Championship club. If we're not able to spend the same as other clubs with our income then that is more of a complaint - but frankly the entire point of the system to provide some disincentive to the ridiculous spending that we've done in recent years.
6. The primary reason that clubs like Bury have folded is because of a financial environment where every club feels the need to massively gamble on it's spending just in order to not lose ground. That environment is at least partially caused by owners like ours spending like ours - we fully deserve to be punished for the sake of the overall game.
7. It might obviously be the case that this is all media nonsense, or that the EFL have messed up with their analysis, in which case ignore all the above.

[Hound]

Brum did net 40odd million from those deals so it’s quite a help

Hopefully the club will release something fairly soon one way or another. Still seems odd to me and considering our circumstances really don’t see how we could have done much more than a minor breach.

[Mr Sitter]

I’m guessing there’s something we’ve misunderstood in the plan and expected to be allowed when in actual fact it wasn’t.
I found it worryingly naive when they expected the EFL to allow us to sign Sarr before Puscas went out on loan on the promise of that happening in the future so I’ve little faith in the club’s business brains.

[Elm Park Kid]

Came across a reference to this reddit post on Twitter -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Championship/c ... ion_in_18/

Given that today is March 1st, the most likely thing that happened is this.

6.2 The Club is also subject to a suspended sanction of 6 points to be deducted from its season points total in Season 2021/22 (or Season 2022/23), on the first occasion on or before 30 June 2023 that: i) the Club fails to file such documents as are required to be filed in accordance with the provisions of Rule 2.2 of the P&S Rules by 1 March in the relevant Season(s);

2.2 The League shall determine whether consideration included in the Club’s Earnings Before Tax arising from an Associated Party Transaction is recorded in the Club’s Annual Accounts at a Fair Market Value. If it is not, The League shall restate it to Fair Market Value.

Fair Market Value adjustment?

I think that refers to transactions where the owners have used one of their own companies (or companies affiliated to them) to inject money into the club. The EFL determines whether that deal was done on the basis of fair market value and will adjust it downwards if it wasn't.

For example - If RFC hired out Kingsley for £1m a day, you could reasonably make the argument that the club doesn't get to put that full amount on it's balance sheet for P&S calculations.

[Stranded]

Beyond how the hell this is possible if we've been working with the EFL then if the reporting says we are working to get an agreed decision again then it would suggest the breach is more to do with the business plan and we are not in danger of breaching FFP again - if it were the latter then it's a no brainer and we'll be getting 18 points lobbed off very soon (12 for a new breach plus the 6 suspended).

I can only see it being something like we have breached the average wage allowed rather than the total budget or somehow a miscount of permitted players has occurred where someone like John Clarke (for example, not definite) was not counted as one when he was meaning we have breached there.

If it is something that should not have been able to happen as a result of monitoring then it certainly will add to the conspiracy theory that the EFL just want us relegated.

[Hound]

And/or they are just incompetent

[Stranded]

Well, there is that too.

Or the club are just a bit shit and we deserve L1.

[Brogue]

bowen out!

[Elm Park Kid]

It's probably like last season we were in jail and this season we were out on parole with an ankle bracelet. It's still possible to commit crimes in the latter without the authorities doing anything wrong.

[Theroyalbox]

Think the club should have already released a statement by now. At least the end of the season should be exciting

Well you'd expect it, as its not fair on Ince having to field questions tomorrow in the usual press conf

Hopefully see something at 3PM they have had enough time to conjure something up by now surely!

[Stranded]

It potentially puts a different light on Ince's comments in the last week or so where he said they were unsure if the embargo would be lifted in the summer or not. Perhaps he knew something was coming and we are hoping to negotiate just the 6pts and a longer embargo?

If there is a continuing embargo, then any Ince out fans will likely be in for a very long wait.

[Stranded]

The other possibility is:

Losses up to the end of the 2020/21 season are capped at 13m so in 2021/22 i.e last season, we could only afford to lose 13m and remain within budget - it is possible that the accounts due to be published show that we have failed to do so.

Therefore we get another 6 points (minimum).

This would also mean that we are in line with the plan this year but that doesn't matter. It could be argued that given the starting position and the fact that the decision only took affect in November 21, we were always likely to breach and be in the shit again.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Came across a reference to this reddit post on Twitter -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Championship/c ... ion_in_18/

Given that today is March 1st, the most likely thing that happened is this.

6.2 The Club is also subject to a suspended sanction of 6 points to be deducted from its season points total in Season 2021/22 (or Season 2022/23), on the first occasion on or before 30 June 2023 that: i) the Club fails to file such documents as are required to be filed in accordance with the provisions of Rule 2.2 of the P&S Rules by 1 March in the relevant Season(s);

2.2 The League shall determine whether consideration included in the Club’s Earnings Before Tax arising from an Associated Party Transaction is recorded in the Club’s Annual Accounts at a Fair Market Value. If it is not, The League shall restate it to Fair Market Value.

Fair Market Value adjustment?

Re point 6.2 its still first March !

[Brogue]

"on the verge of being triggered amid claims the club have failed to cut their spending in accordance with a plan they agree with the EFL." is the exact quote being used by the journo on twitter

[Stranded]

"on the verge of being triggered amid claims the club have failed to cut their spending in accordance with a plan they agree with the EFL." is the exact quote being used by the journo on twitter

Right, so that would suggest this relates to last season and we were unable to get our wage bill down in accordance with the agreed decision - probably as we weren't able to move on certain players commanding higher salaries.

If that is the case, then we fully deserve the additional deduction and are right back in the relegation battle.

Would also expect the embargo to be continued.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

"on the verge of being triggered amid claims the club have failed to cut their spending in accordance with a plan they agree with the EFL." is the exact quote being used by the journo on twitter

It seems like the only possibility that it can be to be honest. Our operating losses were so high before that it would have taken more than just wage bill cuts to get it down to acceptable levels as well. It will be interesting to see just what the specifics are.