Rumour: Signing Nobody

[Vision]

I'm not saying Hammond could am I? The Club "whatever that actually means" shouldn't have got itself into the financial mess it did should it?

I'm merely pointing out that I wouldn't be particularly "happy" with it. It seems an odd thing to say when you have two players vritually in your hands and both disappear. Equally as Hammond himself points out its because of the situation we were in for the majority of the window that precipitated the desperation at the end of it. The players we missed out on at the end were our 2nd or 3rd choices.

Given the situation we were in a month ago then we've done ok but to look at the window as a whole and say we're happy (when we couldn't sign anyone for two thirds of it and when we could sign players we lost out on two thirds of our late targets) is a bit odd.

[GH Royal]

Very true, Peps, but every club has problems getting deals over the line. We're not unique in that (or that kind of 'spin') tbh. Given what Hammond has had to work with in terms of available funds, I think he's done a very good job. Some may wish to avoid the financial reality and still think we should be spending 2, 3 or 4m a pop, but it's not where we are at.

I wouldn't disgaree with that as such but I can't be the only one a bit miffed that he claims to be happy with what we've done despite losing out at the last minute on 2 affordable targets. I'm not blaming Hammond as such for them being tempted elsewhere but it's hardly a good window if you fail to capture 2 specific targets you were dead set on getting.

That would depend on whether the comment about it being a good window was based on the context of having bought no one in the last window, and looking likely to be buying no one in this window until the last few weeks. I certainly wouldn't have believed Reading were likely to get 5 players in before close of play at the start of last month, so in those terms this was a good window, however, the players have joined the club. I'm not sure whether Murray was on the list of targets, or only went on after this French guy went to Turkey, but he has a proven track record prior to the injury, and seems to have been playing well since it.

Murray had been linked with us for weeks up until he signed, so I would imagine he was on Adkins' list. Bakambu I believe signed with Bursaspor only a day or so before deadline day, im unsure of the fee aswell, but it is possible we could have been in for both..? Guess we'll never know!

[melonhead]

I'm not saying Hammond could am I? The Club "whatever that actually means" shouldn't have got itself into the financial mess it did should it?

I'm merely pointing out that I wouldn't be particularly "happy" with it. It seems an odd thing to say when you have two players vritually in your hands and both disappear. Equally as Hammond himself points out its because of the situation we were in for the majority of the window that precipitated the desperation at the end of it. The players we missed out on at the end were our 2nd or 3rd choices.

Given the situation we were in a month ago then we've done ok but to look at the window as a whole and say we're happy (when we couldn't sign anyone for two thirds of it and when we could sign players we lost out on two thirds of our late targets) is a bit odd.

if youre a glass totally empty bloke, yes.
otherwise youd say that getting 5 decent players, filling most of our holes in a truncated and disrupted window, is pretty decent, in context
instead of focussing on the two players that fell through on the last day

targets fall through in every window, after all

[Vision]

I'm not saying Hammond could am I? The Club "whatever that actually means" shouldn't have got itself into the financial mess it did should it?

I'm merely pointing out that I wouldn't be particularly "happy" with it. It seems an odd thing to say when you have two players vritually in your hands and both disappear. Equally as Hammond himself points out its because of the situation we were in for the majority of the window that precipitated the desperation at the end of it. The players we missed out on at the end were our 2nd or 3rd choices.

Given the situation we were in a month ago then we've done ok but to look at the window as a whole and say we're happy (when we couldn't sign anyone for two thirds of it and when we could sign players we lost out on two thirds of our late targets) is a bit odd.

if youre a glass totally empty bloke, yes.
otherwise youd say that getting 5 decent players, filling most of our holes in a truncated and disrupted window, is pretty decent, in context
instead of focussing on the two players that fell through on the last day

targets fall through in every window, after all

Hammond's had an empty pint for several months then at the last minute he's had it half filled with whatever dregs are left and then given a whiff of the good stuff only to have it taken away from him and given to someone else.

You should know me well enough by now to know I'm not among the pessimists and also personally I'm happy to see us carry on blooding the youngsters. I also don't think it's been a terrible window overall .

However If Hammond was so "happy" with what we'd done up until the last days of the window why were we so desperate to get those players in at the last minute? Not the usual way we go about things is it? Normally in the last days it's all about "if something comes up" vibe rather than the "we're going to be very busy" statement.

[melonhead]

i think your definition of happiness, being achievable only if you get every last one of your targets, is too limited.
i think its ok to be happy with what we did, while accepting there are higher levels of happiness that could have been achieved

[Vision]

I think you're the one only looking at the last couple of days rather than the window as a whole.

It's not just that we didn't get those particular players. It's equally the fact that we were forced into desperately scrapping around for those players in the first place. And then not getting them

Hammond himself clearly said we saw players we wanted come and go because we couldn't sign anyone at the time. The fact we've managed to sign alternatives is all fine and dandy and I think we've done ok but as DOF or a manager I wouldn't be happy with the situation I'd been presented with during this window.

Come on Brendy admit it, you know you want to. It's at least a bit of a fail isn't it?

[Ian Royal]

Are circumstances outside your control (ownership and finance) really a failure in terms of having a successful transfer window? I'd say they're more limiting factors that you have to judge the success of the window in the light of.

Otherwise you might as well say that every window is a failure because we didn't have a multi-billionaire willing to pay for the best players in the world.

For me, in context, the window was a success but frustrating because if circumstances had been different we could have done a lot more in it. And I don't think that failure is an accurate description of that.

[melonhead]

I think you're the one only looking at the last couple of days rather than the window as a whole.

It's not just that we didn't get those particular players. It's equally the fact that we were forced into desperately scrapping around for those players in the first place. And then not getting them

Hammond himself clearly said we saw players we wanted come and go because we couldn't sign anyone at the time. The fact we've managed to sign alternatives is all fine and dandy and I think we've done ok but as DOF or a manager I wouldn't be happy with the situation I'd been presented with during this window.

Come on Brendy admit it, you know you want to. It's at least a bit of a fail isn't it?

of course its a bit of a fail. in that we failed to get two people in who we wanted.
but that's not what youre saying. youre saying that we, or he, cannot possibly be at all happy with any of the the business we did, due to two last day failures.
this makes no sense to me.

[Vision]

But the mitigating factors were all of our own doing as a club.

If we play 3/4's of a season being utterly shit and lying bottom of the table yet go on a late surge and finish 4th bottom then people would be happy we didn't get relegated but would anyone honestly say it was a good season overall?

Hammond might think he's made a decent fist of it in the end (and he probably has) but that doesn't mean anyone should be happy with the window as a whole. Especially I'd say the man who's job it is to get deals done and act as the link between the manager/team and the board.

We missed out on several potential players by Hammond's own admission because we couldn't do anything. The mere fact we managed to sign "some players" doesn't alter the fact that he's had his hands tied for the vast majority of it. Maybe I'm fixating on the word "happy" too much but whilst Hammond may be happy (I'd say relieved would be a better word) with what he's managed to do, the window as a whole has been a fail for the club.

[Vision]

I think you're the one only looking at the last couple of days rather than the window as a whole.

It's not just that we didn't get those particular players. It's equally the fact that we were forced into desperately scrapping around for those players in the first place. And then not getting them

Hammond himself clearly said we saw players we wanted come and go because we couldn't sign anyone at the time. The fact we've managed to sign alternatives is all fine and dandy and I think we've done ok but as DOF or a manager I wouldn't be happy with the situation I'd been presented with during this window.

Come on Brendy admit it, you know you want to. It's at least a bit of a fail isn't it?

of course its a bit of a fail. in that we failed to get two people in who we wanted.
but that's not what youre saying. youre saying that we, or he, cannot possibly be at all happy with any of the the business we did, due to two last day failures.
this makes no sense to me.

No Brendy that's not what I've said at all. What I'm saying is that if you judge the window has a whole it has been a bit of a fail. If you can't do business for a massive chunk of it and you see players you'd like to sign (and under normal circumstances would be realistic targets) going elsewhere because you're not in a position to do anything then that is a fail. Eventually managing to sign other low key players softens the blow but doesn't alter the fact that it's very much a plan B.

Then all of a sudden funds are made available to go after 3 players right at the death of which we fail to get two in and the other we only manage to get on a temporary basis. The fact that we were left in that situation is another reason why I'm surprised Hammond is happy with it. If I were him I would be doing all I could to make the powers that be know that this is not an ideal way of going about things and to ensure it doesn't happen again.

In the end I'm not unduly bothered and i'm taking his wrods too literally but it irked me somewhat that he seemed perfectly happy with a situation that was hampered him and more importantly the manager and his development of a squad fit for the season.

[Ian Royal]

I'm seriously questioning my own view of this given I normally agree with everything you write and think you're the best poster on here Vision. But I just can't agree with this.

[melonhead]

He didn't say perfectly happy,he just said he was happy with what we did in the window
If he had said perfectly, then I'd have agreed with you.

Anyway.
JAAAW

[Zana Badawi]

. Some may wish to avoid the financial reality and still think we should be spending 2, 3 or 4m a pop, but it's not where we are at.

We could be if we were clever about it, but we've decided over the last two years to operate a false economy. Buy low and struggle to sell.
The turning point was probably the Jordan Rhodes deal, which we didn't complete because, I presume, the price was too high. But we would have sold him, no problem, during this window (probably instead of Le Fondre). Instead we went 'cheap' with Pogrebnyak who has never been a sellable asset - so I don't see how that choice of striker has benefitted us in the long term. We backed out of the JR deal as there is a figure we wont go above, which is pretty much what your post states.

Then if we look into this window, we accumulate an extra FIVE in at the cost of three out (four if you want to include Carrico - an even five if you believe Wednesday are paying for Drenthe) despite the fact we have at least 2 or 3 U21s who could be playing first team this year. Yes, we have an injury crisis, but we're talking financial prudence here - you don't just write out a 3 year contract for somebody because somebody else is injured. An alternative approach would have been to focus on one (or maybe two if we're feeling fruity) high quality player with resale potential. I don't see that with anybody we've brought into the club either in this transfer window, or truth be told, in the 3 or 4 (or maybe even 5!) windows before that. When was the last time you have heard our manager positively and convincingly endorse a club signing. And lets be clear, they are club signings. NH doesn't just turn up to set a price.

And if people want to buy them for lots of money that's a reflection on the quality if player he's brought in
Shirley

The five Beryl quoted were all bought by the club at least three years ago. I appreciate that it takes time for players to accumulate in value, but our squad nowadays is littered with speculative punts who we cant sell and will just be released on a free at the end of their contract. There has been a definite change in activity regarding transfers at the club since Coppel left. We've lost our bottle and we seem to spend a lot of our time defending mediocre decisions rather than making good ones.

[melonhead]

[Royal Rother]

[paultheroyal]

[SPARTA]

[Pseud O'Nym]

[Royal Ginger]

[Sutekh]