Swift to... Southampton

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by NewCorkSeth » 09 Jan 2020 18:20

John Smith
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LWJ Owner doesn't like selling, very much an aim to go up this year so this is very doubtful

8)
https://twitter.com/jonathanl50/status/ ... 74881?s=21

Also the fact they have James Ward-Prowse who is a better version of Swift would have answered that.

Just because they are both white, English CMs of a similar age from Portsmouth doesn't mean they are alike.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Snowball » 09 Jan 2020 18:25

NewCorkSeth
John Smith

Also the fact they have James Ward-Prowse who is a better version of Swift would have answered that.

Just because they are both white, English CMs of a similar age from Portsmouth doesn't mean they are alike.


Agreed. Pompeyism should always be called out

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Chameleon » 09 Jan 2020 23:51

LWJ
LWJ Owner doesn't like selling, very much an aim to go up this year so this is very doubtful

8)
https://twitter.com/jonathanl50/status/ ... 74881?s=21


Very nice to hear. This season and next feel very make or break in terms of our future. Go up and we have the backing (and core team) to become a very solid PL side.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Jan 2020 12:35

I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Jan 2020 13:01

Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by URZZZZ » 10 Jan 2020 13:07

WestYorksRoyal
Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


I see your points but at the same time I do find it a bit of a simplistic argument with some flaws

Mainly the fact that you can't predict the future windows. A 15 million bid for Swift, Moore wanting out, 15 million bid for Ejaria etc etc and we're back to square one

Many thought it was too early for us to be promoted with Stam in his first season and that perhaps losing the PO final, in the long term wouldn't be so disastrous because of the youngsters and the progression that we could make. Obviously everyone knows how that turned out

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by NewCorkSeth » 10 Jan 2020 13:32

URZZZZ
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Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


I see your points but at the same time I do find it a bit of a simplistic argument with some flaws

Mainly the fact that you can't predict the future windows. A 15 million bid for Swift, Moore wanting out, 15 million bid for Ejaria etc etc and we're back to square one

Many thought it was too early for us to be promoted with Stam in his first season and that perhaps losing the PO final, in the long term wouldn't be so disastrous because of the youngsters and the progression that we could make. Obviously everyone knows how that turned out

Not quite back to square 1 but I accept your point. Going up this season would be great but going up next season with the caveat of not losing any of our major players would be better. We don't have a team that would survive. If we went up this season we would essentially need to sign a player for almost every position.

We need a season to strengthen and develop. Several of our players have looked like they can step up their game a bit more with some time. Ejaria, Richards, Puscas and maybe even McIntyre. If promotion came this season I think those players would stall massively. As it is the only players who could be ready for Premier League football in terms of experience and ability are Moore (at a push), Yiadom, Swift and Rafael. I'm not saying they would succeed up there but those are the only ones I can think of who could reasonably be signed by a lower premier league team right now and actually play.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Jan 2020 13:41

URZZZZ
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Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


I see your points but at the same time I do find it a bit of a simplistic argument with some flaws

Mainly the fact that you can't predict the future windows. A 15 million bid for Swift, Moore wanting out, 15 million bid for Ejaria etc etc and we're back to square one

Many thought it was too early for us to be promoted with Stam in his first season and that perhaps losing the PO final, in the long term wouldn't be so disastrous because of the youngsters and the progression that we could make. Obviously everyone knows how that turned out

You have to convince the players that we're going in the right direction, and hopefully they'll stay. I agree it's overly simplistic; there is no right or wrong way to establish in the PL. Look at Burnley; they went up unexpectedly, didn't panic when they got relegated and went straight back up stronger for it. But that path is fraught with risks of bad signings or losing your best players. Also look at Huddersfield who beat us in 2017; they are now beneath us in the table after enduring a largely miserable time in the PL. They got promoted too soon.

Looking at our squad now, I don't expect anybody to bang on the door to leave. Moore is happy, Swift is only 24 and can afford a couple of campaigns fighting for promotion before pushing to leave. If you believe your club is capable of promotion, there is no better way to establish yourself as a PL player than to get promoted as a key player and be virtually assured of a starting place the next season. Our best route is to build slowly; promotion party 2021 or 2022!

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Hound » 10 Jan 2020 15:09

I can only think of Brighton and maybe Fulham who built over a couple of seasons to promotion in recent history. Brighton have just about held their own, and Fulham came straight down.

Was it too early for Sheff Utd? Nope.

Basically if the chance comes along, you 100% go for it and sort your shit out when you get there. Burnley certainly had the best model, of not splashing out loads, just using the Prem money to build for the future. Imagine what the club could do with an injection of £100m and a new set of parachute payments. Just upgrade all the infrastructure, the academy etc. If a Swift or Ejaria thrives in the Prem then suddenly they are worth double or more what they are now

We have players who could step up I reckon. At least to lower prem level. Swift, Ejaria, Moore, Yiadom, Joao and Rafael could all do a job imo. Then supplement with some high quality loans from Arsenal/Liverpool etc and you've just about got a team together. Add a few quality signings on top

Hudders just wasted tons of money on rubbish like Mounie. They recruited pretty poorly when they went up - if they had recruited better they'd still be there


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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Jan 2020 15:19

Maybe I look at our experience too. Our promotion in 2006 was a long time coming; we'd been in the mix with the same spine of a team for a few years. That team was utterly ready for the PL and should never have been relegated just 2 years later.

In 2012, it was more of a shock. I don't think anyone expected it and they were ultimately out of their depth in the PL.

I agree circumstances are different now. Key players in that team like McAnuff, Leigertwood, Gorkss, Harte and Pearce were playing at the very peak of their powers in 11/12 and were always going to struggle a level higher. This squad looks like it has more players capable of going up a level, but it would be a big challenge.

It's likely irrelevant anyway; we're in good form but it would be a magnificent effort to go up this season. It's unlikely.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by SWLR » 10 Jan 2020 15:43

In 2012 - Roberts was the difference and why we got promoted, then he missed nearly all the Premier League season

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Jan 2020 16:17

URZZZZ
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Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


I see your points but at the same time I do find it a bit of a simplistic argument with some flaws

Mainly the fact that you can't predict the future windows. A 15 million bid for Swift, Moore wanting out, 15 million bid for Ejaria etc etc and we're back to square one

Many thought it was too early for us to be promoted with Stam in his first season and that perhaps losing the PO final, in the long term wouldn't be so disastrous because of the youngsters and the progression that we could make. Obviously everyone knows how that turned out

Yeah, we spunked a load of money on utter shit. If we'd gone up we'd have spunked 10 times as much on shit.

We also saw what happened when we went up needing massive squad changes under McDermott. We've been dealing with the shitty fallout ever since. And we'd had a couple of years of stability under him.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by URZZZZ » 10 Jan 2020 16:46

Snowflake Royal
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WestYorksRoyal ^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


I see your points but at the same time I do find it a bit of a simplistic argument with some flaws

Mainly the fact that you can't predict the future windows. A 15 million bid for Swift, Moore wanting out, 15 million bid for Ejaria etc etc and we're back to square one

Many thought it was too early for us to be promoted with Stam in his first season and that perhaps losing the PO final, in the long term wouldn't be so disastrous because of the youngsters and the progression that we could make. Obviously everyone knows how that turned out

Yeah, we spunked a load of money on utter shit. If we'd gone up we'd have spunked 10 times as much on shit.

We also saw what happened when we went up needing massive squad changes under McDermott. We've been dealing with the shitty fallout ever since. And we'd had a couple of years of stability under him.


But would you not argue that the time we went up under McDermott, we followed that progressive path that you and others are talking about and hence we were ready by that logic

2009/10 : 9th place IIRC
2010/11: 5th place
2011/12: 1st place

Surely that’s the definition of progress from one season to another?

I’ve always generally thought the argument of “too soon for the PL” could apply more to the concept of players rather than teams


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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by NewCorkSeth » 10 Jan 2020 16:51

Hound I can only think of Brighton and maybe Fulham who built over a couple of seasons to promotion in recent history. Brighton have just about held their own, and Fulham came straight down.

Was it too early for Sheff Utd? Nope.

Basically if the chance comes along, you 100% go for it and sort your shit out when you get there. Burnley certainly had the best model, of not splashing out loads, just using the Prem money to build for the future. Imagine what the club could do with an injection of £100m and a new set of parachute payments. Just upgrade all the infrastructure, the academy etc. If a Swift or Ejaria thrives in the Prem then suddenly they are worth double or more what they are now

We have players who could step up I reckon. At least to lower prem level. Swift, Ejaria, Moore, Yiadom, Joao and Rafael could all do a job imo. Then supplement with some high quality loans from Arsenal/Liverpool etc and you've just about got a team together. Add a few quality signings on top

Hudders just wasted tons of money on rubbish like Mounie. They recruited pretty poorly when they went up - if they had recruited better they'd still be there

I would call Sheffield united a team that built.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Jan 2020 16:52

Not really the same building up for 2012 - every pre-season involved selling key players and apparently going backwards. Up to 2006 we incrementally improved the squad year on year.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Jan 2020 16:56

URZZZZ
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I see your points but at the sgame time I do find it a bit of a simplistic argument with some flaws

Mainly the fact that you can't predict the future windows. A 15 million bid for Swift, Moore wanting out, 15 million bid for Ejaria etc etc and we're back to square one

Many thought it was too early for us to be promoted with Stam in his first season and that perhaps losing the PO final, in the long term wouldn't be so disastrous because of the youngsters and the progression that we could make. Obviously everyone knows how that turned out

Yeah, we spunked a load of money on utter shit. If we'd gone up we'd have spunked 10 times as much on shit.

We also saw what happened when we went up needing massive squad changes under McDermott. We've been dealing with the shitty fallout ever since. And we'd had a couple of years of stability under him.


But would you not argue that the time we went up under McDermott, we followed that progressive path that you and others are talking about and hence we were ready by that logic

2009/10 : 9th place IIRC
2010/11: 5th place
2011/12: 1st place

Surely that’s the definition of progress from one season to another?

I’ve always generally thought the argument of “too soon for the PL” could apply more to the concept of players rather than teams

No, on the basis our style and approach wasn't compatible with stepping up without completely rebuilding.

We relied on a distinctly average workmanlike midfield and spoiling teams then our sharp forwards picking up scraps and scoring.

We were never going to be able to control games like that in the PL, oppositions were always likely to be sharp enough to exploit our errors and we were never likely to be sharp enough to exploit theirs.

Had we gone up the season before it might have been a bit different as Long could have been a decent focal point. By comparison Roberts on the downward slide. Similarly our midfield had been more creative, so it may have required a bit less change. Legs was never going to step up.

Compared to us now, we have Swift, Ejaria, Rino etc... that's got a lot more growth potential than Legs, Karacan and Tabb. Excuse the height related semi pun.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by URZZZZ » 10 Jan 2020 16:57

WestYorksRoyal Not really the same building up for 2012 - every pre-season involved selling key players and apparently going backwards. Up to 2006 we incrementally improved the squad year on year.


Players like Pearce, Cummings, Karacan, Leigertwood, Tabb, Kebe, Federici, McAnuff, Hunt were a mainstay through that period

We added a couple each year such as Gorkss, Roberts, Le Fondre etc but the basic principles and foundations were always there. I'll accept it wasn't exactly the same as 2006 but it wasn't like we ripped up the whole process and started again each time

The sales of Long and Sigurdsson did hit us hard originally, especially Long but we recovered and adapted to it well on both occasions

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Chameleon » 10 Jan 2020 18:11

WestYorksRoyal
Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


There is never a bad time to get £100m + £60m in parachute payments.

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Hound » 10 Jan 2020 19:37

Chameleon
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Snowflake Royal I do feel like this season it would be a step too far. We'd need so much work and have only very recently got a y confidence and form together. Our winning mentality would be very fragile.

A solid season, strengthen and promotion next year or the one after would be more ideal IMO. We'd have a better base and a stronger, deeper success culture.

^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


There is never a bad time to get £100m + £60m in parachute payments.


Exactly. Bank that then work from there

If you are sensible, worse than can happen is you come back down but with a huge chunk of cash

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Re: Swift to... Southampton

by Chameleon » 10 Jan 2020 21:20

Hound
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WestYorksRoyal ^^^ This 100%. Pundits say you can't get promoted too early. Bollocks. You most definitely can. This is, mostly, a young squad. A few good additions this summer and we would be so much better prepared.


There is never a bad time to get £100m + £60m in parachute payments.


Exactly. Bank that then work from there

If you are sensible, worse than can happen is you come back down but with a huge chunk of cash


Yep, if we did go up, buy Cabral or Martinez, get Ejaria, buy Miazga, look at getting Baker back on loan and maybe a striker plus one other, then you've spent £30m or so maximum, and have the finances to have no FFP issues for the next 3 years if we do get relegated.

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