EFL Hearing.......and outcome.

[Hound]

Ooohhh, the P&S one has gone as well now. Just the HMRC one left

Bloody hell, we're not in an embargo. Well, if we can get that HMRC one gone too.

Great, we can all look forward to the over the top signings of some misfits or other in the coming weeks so the club can start this palava all over again.

Yay let’s hope so!

[Green]

You don't have to be batshit mental to own a football club, but it helps.

[Forbury Lion]

The last occasion was after the disgracefully late announcement of deduction of points at the start of April?

That deduction would have been earlier if we didn't try and argue it despite making no effort to meet our commitments.

We had made an effort to meet our commitments, and had received some sort of notice from the EFL that we were following the business plan. The independent panel disagreed and said that the asset we had disposed of following our failure to sell players was unacceptable.

What asset did we sell?

[Forbury Lion]

there were tweets suggesting Ashley had been seen at the stadium but I’d take that with a pinch of salt.

did she have Pudsey with her?

[Pepe the Horseman]

This was one of my fav music videos as a young teen.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

That deduction would have been earlier if we didn't try and argue it despite making no effort to meet our commitments.

We had made an effort to meet our commitments, and had received some sort of notice from the EFL that we were following the business plan. The independent panel disagreed and said that the asset we had disposed of following our failure to sell players was unacceptable.

What asset did we sell?

Think it was something to do with a proposed sale of an investment to an entity owned by Dai that wasn't completed by 1st March as well as the fact that we needed to be P&S compliant without relying on player sales or related party transactions after 1st March 2023. Not sure what it is that we sold, or tried to sell.

[RG30]

So to confirm, the club still have 1 embargo (HMRC) and 1 EFL charge (late payment of wages 3 times 22/23). Assuming HMRC is paid that will come off soon but we'll still have the EFL charge which will be difficult to defend. Probable suspended points deduction?

[Snowflake Royal]

Late payment of players *should* be 4pts suspended probably.

But previous offences and sanctions may mean we just get it applied straightaway.

Dunno on the HMRC stuff.

[Sutekh]

Late payment of players *should* be 4pts suspended probably.

But previous offences and sanctions may mean we just get it applied straightaway.

Dunno on the HMRC stuff.

No penalties until the 4th failure though, think that's what Wigan got away with before getting penalised.

[From Despair To Where?]

Late payment of players *should* be 4pts suspended probably.

But previous offences and sanctions may mean we just get it applied straightaway.

Dunno on the HMRC stuff.

The HMRC stuff is over a failure to report. A quick look at the regs suggests that any issue with HMRC has to be reported to the EFL within 2 days.

Im not 100% sure of the dates but I think the winding up petition was lodged on 21st June and we apparently paid it on 23rd June so potentially we may have not informed the EFL, thinking the issue was resolved. IIRC, It was originally logged as failure to pay and then changed to failure to report the same day.

I'm not saying this is the absolute truth of the matter but it does fit the known facts. Obviously the charge would still stand but it seems to me its a reg that acts as a safeguard to more serious breaches which we have not then committed, so I'd like to think it's bit like filing your tax returns late. Yeah, you'll get a fine but won't be charged with tax evasion.

[Sutekh]

Late payment of players *should* be 4pts suspended probably.

But previous offences and sanctions may mean we just get it applied straightaway.

Dunno on the HMRC stuff.

The HMRC stuff is over a failure to report. A quick look at the regs suggests that any issue with HMRC has to be reported to the EFL within 2 days.

Im not 100% sure of the dates but I think the winding up petition was lodged on 21st June and we apparently paid it on 23rd June so potentially we may have not informed the EFL, thinking the issue was resolved. IIRC, It was originally logged as failure to pay and then changed to failure to report the same day.

I'm not saying this is the absolute truth of the matter but it does fit the known facts. Obviously the charge would still stand but it seems to me its a reg that acts as a safeguard to more serious breaches which we have not then committed, so I'd like to think it's bit like filing your tax returns late. Yeah, you'll get a fine but won't be charged with tax evasion.

Regulation 17.4 states:

17.4 Failure to Notify a Default Event. A Club which fails to report a Default Event shall be guilty of misconduct and shall be referred to a Disciplinary Commission in accordance with Section 7 of these Regulations.

Therefore the club will be saddled with the HMRC charge until the commission has delivered a verdict. One would hope the FL might let people know when the commission will convene to cover this cock-up as obviously the club will tell us naff all.

Anyone know what the precedence has been for other clubs in the same position?

[morganb]

Twitter seem to think that Reading could be under embargo again (rumour started by Tim Dellor):

Tim Dellor @TimDellor
There will still be restrictions on transfer signings for @ReadingFC after embargo lifted, because of a new EFL rule that punishes any club late with HMRC payment (and a rule about paying players late). Owners looking for new investors… so if you’re interested and have cash….

Here is the link to the changes:

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/june/efl- ... mmer-2023/

And the salient point being:

HMRC REPORTING

The EFL has updated Regulation 17.1 to include all debts due to HMRC and now requires Clubs to report any defaults within two working days.

30-DAY RULE

The non-payment of HMRC debt has been added as a trigger of Regulation 52.6, so Clubs who accumulate 30 days of late payments in a 12-month period will be unable to sign a player for a fee or any consideration for three full transfer windows. The amendment to the 30-Day Rule also provides for Clubs to self-report late payment of any debt covered by Regulation 52.6, plus a right of appeal for Clubs triggering the 30-Day Rule.

Have we accumulated 30 days of late payment (to HMRC)? Dellor mentions late payment of players but can not see it on the above link

[Hound]

Probably

Another 3 windows of no cash signings. Excellent

[WestYorksRoyal]

So aim for next 2 seasons is to stay in L1?

[Mr Optimist]

So aim for next 2 seasons is to stay in L1?

Why do I keep visualising the Black Knight in Monty Python & the Holy Grail….we should add to our club badge “‘Tis but a scratch”…..

[YorkshireRoyal99]

3 more windows will make it what, 5 years in total without spending a penny on transfer fees? The last transfer fee spent was on Felipe Araruna in January 2020 I believe? Another 3 windows will be this one, January and then summer 2024, leaving us then free to spend in January 2025. That's assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then as well.

Recruitment team have their work cut out, even in League One.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Recruitment team have their work cut out, even in League One.

Will they stay? Bowen's rebuild vision looks like smouldering ruins.

[Hound]

Nice of the EFL to bring this is in the summer we owe to HMRC

Oh well, we won’t breach FFP anytime soon

[Delboy]

EFL deliberately trying to kill off clubs , premier clubs get away with everything

[Clyde1998]

I don't think we need to spend anything transfer fees to build a decent League One side. I don't think we're too far away from having a squad that could challenge from the play-offs right now - central midfield is the key area where we need players and at least one striker. The rest would be more about improving squad depth, as opposed to significantly strengthening the first XI.