Signings are not good enough

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RoyalBlue
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by RoyalBlue » 18 Jul 2006 13:29

Gregster Accepted. But would the increases to Premiership wages in their contracts really have swallowed the Sky revenues, sponsorship and ST price increases?

I see the statement of intent to remain in the Premiership to mean more than paying players more.


Don't forget that the club should also have hit the jackpot with significantly increased profits from merchandising in the second part of last season plus all the special items sold to mark the club's success.

Mr Angry
Third issue is where has the cash gone?

Increasing wages is one area, not only of the playing staff, but of everyone employed by the club - and quite right to.


I really hope that not everyone employed at the club has had a wage increase. Whereas the playing squad and their management have proved that they are capable of moving up from the Championship to the top flight, there are some off the field activities that struggled even to perform effectively at Championship level. If we're going to pay more in those areas, I hope it's because we've recruited some top level talent.
Last edited by RoyalBlue on 18 Jul 2006 13:42, edited 1 time in total.

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by Gregster » 18 Jul 2006 13:31

Mr Angry
Gregster If we're going to include the Premiership royalties, etc., then the question still stands. If we weren't planning to increase the squad with new signings, why did the fans have to suffer such an increase in ticket prices when Sky, etc are providing a more substantial revenue stream to the club?

I can predict the usual 'you know nothing about the finances of the club' etc replies but am genuinely interested in what people think this extra revenue is to be spent on?

Or is it to replace monies spent securing our progress to the Premiership in the JM years. I have no problem if this is the case or if we are securing the clubs financial position but would have preferred an explanation along those lines.


Firstly, the highlighted bit. It is ridiculous to suggest the club weren't "planning" to increase the squad with new signings; I understand that we were looking at players from January for the coming season. However, the fact of the matter is that some players (and their agents!) will need convincing that we will not be going straight back down.

The second issue is that Coppell is looking for a particular type of player, and if there aren't a glut of players of that ilk, then he isn't simply going to spend for the sake of it.

Third issue is where has the cash gone?

Increasing wages is one area, not only of the playing staff, but of everyone employed by the club - and quite right to. Another area is that there have had to be certain changes to the stadium (for example, the press area has to have TV's - a Premiership ruling) which were outlined in the documents given to RFC when our promotion was ratified a few weeks ago.

I have no idea if Mr Mad has decided to ease some of the debt burden with some of the cash received, but if he has, so what? Its his money and he can do what he likes with it - I know its been said countless times before, but he really doesn't have to do this, and for those people who think he should bankroll all of THEIR spending demands as fans is both unrealistic and unworkable.

If you don't think so, may I suggest you consider Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley et al.


See above highlight. I already said I didnt have a problem with it. I would have preferred some honesty if this is the case though. I love the club and would gladly see us secure financial stability or repay what JM has done.

I dont think its ridiculous to say that Coppell had planned to largely keep the team which secured us promotion but with a few strengthening purchases. Show me any evidence to the contrary that he had considered bringing any big new signings on. I think Coppell has said many times that he wants to keep the team morale up and not to introduce any players which could upset that (ie, highly paid players with large, inflated ego's - or does that describe every footballer!?).

I didnt realise there were any required changes to the Mad Stad so thank you for that info. I always thought the stadium was ready to receive Premiership football from day one.

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:32

I also wouldn't be surprised if they are starting to put some money aside for the eventual stadium capacity increase.

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by floyd__streete » 18 Jul 2006 13:37

Wycombe Royal I also wouldn't be surprised if they are starting to put some money aside for the eventual stadium capacity increase.


.....which could be an act of sheer folly.

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 13:41

floyd__streete
Wycombe Royal I also wouldn't be surprised if they are starting to put some money aside for the eventual stadium capacity increase.


.....which could be an act of sheer folly.

Not really. If they don't then spend it on the stadium it can be used elsewhere like reducing the debt, buying some players, directors bonuses, etc......


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by Gordons Cumming » 18 Jul 2006 13:45

Does anyone know what purchases Sunderland made when entering the Premiership in their record breaking season?

They did well in the first season up I believe, and second, I think.........

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by Stranded » 18 Jul 2006 14:19

Gordons Cumming Does anyone know what purchases Sunderland made when entering the Premiership in their record breaking season?

They did well in the first season up I believe, and second, I think.........


Here you go:

http://www.soccerbase.com/transfers_by_ ... eamid=2493

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by papereyes » 18 Jul 2006 14:21

They went up in 1998/99 with a record 105 points.

According to Soccerbase, they signed Micheal Ingham, Stefan Schwartz, Steve Bould, Thomas Helmer and John Oster for a total £5.5 million pounds.

No, I know. John who?

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by Gordons Cumming » 18 Jul 2006 14:27

papereyes They went up in 1998/99 with a record 105 points.

According to Soccerbase, they signed Micheal Ingham, Stefan Schwartz, Steve Bould, Thomas Helmer and John Oster for a total £5.5 million pounds.

No, I know. John who?


So they bought a young goalie, a right winger and some oldies.

5 players, a bit of experience and some up and coming potential? :shock:


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by papereyes » 18 Jul 2006 14:31

The players that did well were already in place. Here's the squad stats

Kevin Phillips - signed from Watford 1997
Quinn - signed from Man Citeh 1996
Sorensen - signed 1998
Alex Rae - signed from Millwall 1996
Gavin McCann - signed from Everton 1998

Kilbane was signed during the season and had some impact.

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 14:32

papereyes They went up in 1998/99 with a record 105 points.

According to Soccerbase, they signed Micheal Ingham, Stefan Schwartz, Steve Bould, Thomas Helmer and John Oster for a total £5.5 million pounds.

No, I know. John who?

They spent over £25m over the next 2 seasons and then got relegated. :shock:

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by papereyes » 18 Jul 2006 14:33

From that list of 5 - Ingham didn't play that season, Helmer was sub-keeper, Oster had only a bit part with Schwartz and Bould playing about 20 games each in the league.

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by Seal » 18 Jul 2006 14:35

Not sure if it's a fair comparison really as the dynamics of the Premier League have changed quite considerably since then. Better to look at who the signed last summer, when they also went up as Champions:

Signed

Tommy Miller
Martin Woods
Joe Murphy
Alan Stubbs
Andy Gray
Christian Bassila
Kevin Smith
Rory Delap

Loans

Anthony Le Tallec
Justin Hoyte

Of that lot think at the time I'd only have been happy with Miller and Hoyte, this rest are all pretty uninspiring. I Have faith that we can do a lot better than that, and don't think we need half as many players to come in either.


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by papereyes » 18 Jul 2006 14:36

They spent over £25m over the next 2 seasons and then got relegated.


Failure to keep the pressure on players who had been there a few years
Signing a few high profile flops
Poor replacement manager in 2002.

All very valid reasons. You could never pin failure in 02/03 on poor investment in 99/00.

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by Wycombe Royal » 18 Jul 2006 14:43

papereyes
They spent over £25m over the next 2 seasons and then got relegated.


Failure to keep the pressure on players who had been there a few years
Signing a few high profile flops
Poor replacement manager in 2002.

All very valid reasons. You could never pin failure in 02/03 on poor investment in 99/00.

I was merely showing that spending money doesn't mean anything. It is HOW the money is spent that is the key, which is why it is nice that we have a management team who only want certain types of players to fit in with the existing squad.

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by KC Royal » 18 Jul 2006 15:02

I wouldn't be too bothered about whether we sign any more strikers or not. I think the 4 we have is fine, and don't forget that we never saw Lita fully fit. I said this before and I'll say it again he'll be our main striker this season. He could very well explode just like Convey did last season :D

As for season tickets, I never understood the increase at the time, and still don't completely now. I guess its probably more to clear the debt than anything else, Madejski knows he can charge what he likes and we'll have a full stadium for every game. Even still the prices are up there with the most expensive in the Premiership :shock: Granted I couldnt get a season ticket this season, but even if I had I dont like the club overcharging the fans that have seen us get this far.

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Re: Signings are not good enough

by Z175 » 30 Jul 2010 09:52

Yeah to be fair we should have made some better signings back then.

Nowadays we'd get very excited about this Korean guy though and a 27 year old defender from the football league would be smashin!

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Re: Signings are not good enough

by richierock » 30 Jul 2010 10:12

RIP ELM Park
refwinter Lets hope we are not another Sunderland


Lets hope we are, Sunderland won the league with 105 points then finished 7th in the Prem the next season. I'd settle for that!


Written in July 2006 - That's spooky!

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Re: Signings are not good enough

by Z175 » 30 Jul 2010 11:33

richierock
RIP ELM Park
refwinter Lets hope we are not another Sunderland


Lets hope we are, Sunderland won the league with 105 points then finished 7th in the Prem the next season. I'd settle for that!


Written in July 2006 - That's spooky!


And then got relegated!


and then went back up!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Signings are not good enough

by richierock » 30 Jul 2010 12:31

Z175
richierock
RIP ELM Park
Lets hope we are, Sunderland won the league with 105 points then finished 7th in the Prem the next season. I'd settle for that!


Written in July 2006 - That's spooky!


And then got relegated!


and then went back up!!!!!!!!!!!!


Perhaps we should re-sign John Oster - just to make sure

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